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  • FIRST POST
    • fourcandles
    • By fourcandles 20th Apr 17, 7:36 AM
    • 114Posts
    • 102Thanks
    fourcandles
    How secure is keyless entry?
    • #1
    • 20th Apr 17, 7:36 AM
    How secure is keyless entry? 20th Apr 17 at 7:36 AM
    On the Jeremy Vine Show on Radio 2 yesterday there was an article on a spate of thefts of keyless entry cars. This got my attention as we are picking up our new (well, new-ER) car next week, which happens to have keyless technology.

    Apparently criminals are now using a gadget to pick up the weak radio signal from the key fob in the house, amplify it and relay it to the car, which unlocks it, then they can just drive off!

    It appears that the way to avoid this is to keep your key fob in a metal box or wrap it in aluminium foil to block the signal. Which got me wondering, why does the fob have to be transmitting all the time, even when you aren't driving the car? Surely a simple on/off switch on the fob would turn the signal off when not in use?
Page 2
    • Mr.Generous
    • By Mr.Generous 20th Apr 17, 10:44 PM
    • 1,627 Posts
    • 2,428 Thanks
    Mr.Generous
    How incredibly inconvenient remote central locking is, we have to go one better and use technology to invent a 'foolproof' security system. Trouble is thieves like technology too.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 20th Apr 17, 10:52 PM
    • 2,124 Posts
    • 1,353 Thanks
    Car 54
    Apparently a work around for the problem is to store the key in a metal line bag or metal box, effectively a faraday cage for the key.
    Originally posted by bubieyehyeh
    In post #1, the OP said:

    "It appears that the way to avoid this is to keep your key fob in a metal box or wrap it in aluminium foil to block the signal."

    We seem to have come full circle.
    • Crabman
    • By Crabman 21st Apr 17, 12:16 AM
    • 9,566 Posts
    • 6,955 Thanks
    Crabman
    Saw this video not too long ago - what happens if you throw out your key (fob) WHILE driving:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSxubcxxXS4
    I'm a Board Guide on the Savings & Investments, ISAs & Tax-free Savings, Public Transport & Cycling, Motoring and Parking Fines, Tickets & Parking Boards which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly & I can move & merge posts there. Board Guides are not moderators & don't read every post. If you spot a contentious or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com

    • fourcandles
    • By fourcandles 21st Apr 17, 6:55 AM
    • 114 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    fourcandles
    If you are worried, just don't buy a car with keyless entry. Simple.
    Originally posted by movilogo
    We still want the car, I just wanted to ensure that I understood the article properly, and understand what we can do to reduce the risks of the car being stolen before we pick it up.

    The Disklock seems to have very good reviews, so that is an option, and I have been reading up on trackers and immobilisers, which it seems can still be bypassed or disabled. I guess if someone wants the car they will get it no matter how much security is put on it.

    We'll be starting by keeping the keys in a tin! Which brings me back to my first question - why don't the fobs have a simple on/off switch, or am I missing something here?
    • Sea Shell
    • By Sea Shell 21st Apr 17, 7:39 AM
    • 373 Posts
    • 331 Thanks
    Sea Shell
    I've often wondered how key-less entry would work if you had OCD? How can you double check you've locked the car, if it then re-opens when you get near it!!!
    " That pound I saved yesterday, is a pound I don't have to earn tomorrow "
    • fourcandles
    • By fourcandles 21st Apr 17, 7:50 AM
    • 114 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    fourcandles
    I've often wondered how key-less entry would work if you had OCD? How can you double check you've locked the car, if it then re-opens when you get near it!!!
    Originally posted by Sea Shell
    Answer - always carry a roll of aluminium foil with you!
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 21st Apr 17, 9:57 AM
    • 1,203 Posts
    • 771 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    We still want the car, I just wanted to ensure that I understood the article properly, and understand what we can do to reduce the risks of the car being stolen before we pick it up.

    The Disklock seems to have very good reviews, so that is an option, and I have been reading up on trackers and immobilisers, which it seems can still be bypassed or disabled. I guess if someone wants the car they will get it no matter how much security is put on it.

    We'll be starting by keeping the keys in a tin! Which brings me back to my first question - why don't the fobs have a simple on/off switch, or am I missing something here?
    Originally posted by fourcandles
    Doesn't that add quite a lot of time compared to just getting in the car and driving away. How tempting will it be to not bother putting the disklok on?
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 21st Apr 17, 11:02 AM
    • 2,917 Posts
    • 3,115 Thanks
    Johno100
    I've often wondered how key-less entry would work if you had OCD? How can you double check you've locked the car, if it then re-opens when you get near it!!!
    Originally posted by Sea Shell
    My Ford (don't know about other makes) either locking with the fob or via the button on the door handle, the car stays locked for a number of seconds so you can check the handle and walk away before the keyless entry goes back into 'detect mode' waiting for the key to get back into range.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 21st Apr 17, 1:18 PM
    • 11,144 Posts
    • 8,394 Thanks
    unholyangel
    My new Hyundai Tucson has keyless entry, but needs a 'foldaway' key in the key fob, to start the car. There is what looks like a standard ignition lock, but Hyundai say that any attempt to interfere with the lock, immobilises the ignition. It would need a Hyundai workshop to get it started, rectify damage and reset everything. There is no Start Button, which my previous C-Max had.
    Originally posted by Robisere
    Hyundai (and any other car manufacturer) probably would say that.

    However if you think about it, what would happen when their own team interfere with the lock? They'd be able to get around it.

    As whatsapp pointed out when the tories were forcing them to allow a back door for authorities....if you have a weakness in your security it can be exploited by anyone - not just the "good guys".

    They're probably cloning the key somehow, because the car should stop if the key gets out of range.
    Originally posted by Strider590
    I had to give a friend a lift a few months back to take their keyless fob to his wife - who had managed to get in & start the car while the key was sat on the windowsill in the house and only realised her mistake when she got to her destination.

    Most keyless entry systems will use a rolling code to prevent replay attacks like this.
    Originally posted by GabbaGabbaHey
    Unfortunately with computers, theyre incapable of random. They'll do exactly what they're programmed to do, follow the algorithms theyre told to etc. If it can be engineered, it can be reverse engineered.

    These security features may stop your average joyrider, but its not going to stop those who are stealing to order as they will come prepared and know exactly what they're doing.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
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