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  • FIRST POST
    • AngelHarmony
    • By AngelHarmony 19th Apr 17, 11:26 PM
    • 28Posts
    • 27Thanks
    AngelHarmony
    Parking Eye PCN at Derby & Burton Services
    • #1
    • 19th Apr 17, 11:26 PM
    Parking Eye PCN at Derby & Burton Services 19th Apr 17 at 11:26 PM
    I'm really hoping for some help please? I've been through lots of pages/posts including the Info for Newbies but I think I'm just tying myself in knots!

    At the beginning of last month I stopped at Derby & Burton Services. I know this service area fairly well as I used to live just a few minutes away from it. It's a large site with a wonderful food pub at one end, in the middle there's a fuel station with a KFC restaurant & drive-through & 3 other units that have varied since it opened. At the other end there's an Ibis Budget Hotel.

    I'm registered disabled, was tired & I just wanted a drink (from my flask), some fresh air & to let my dog out to stretch her legs. The first quiet area I spotted which also had grass was by the far end of the hotel so I parked there. With the exception of the food pub which has some shrubbery around it, the rest of the large car park is an open one. After half an hour I was back on my way home.

    Imagine my shock when a fortnight later I received a Parking Charge Notice for £60!! (It includes photo's of me arriving & leaving) Apparently "the car park is private land, only for authorised hotel guests/patrons only along with other terms & conditions of the car park". I know I was parked by the far end of the hotel but I didn't see any signs & definitely no boundary areas to say I wasn't allowed to park where I was. As far as I'm concerned, disabled needing a rest or not, I always thought a service area is supposed to be a place to get rest, food, drink, fuel etc., after all there are signs everywhere to take a break & not drive tired!!

    Although after receiving the PCN I looked on here as well as the motorway services online website to see who to contact about cancelling the PCN. I've then not been well over the last week so it was completely forgotten about until this morning when I received a second PCN telling me I now have 14 days to pay £100 & because I didn't appeal within 28 days of the date of the original PCN then I have no further right to appeal!!

    I've spent the day going through the forum but really don't know;

    a) exactly who to appeal to?
    b) can I appeal with any part of the DDA? (I've seen some others on here have)
    c) how to word my letter correctly? (I'm especially struggling with this)

    I'd be so very very grateful for some help/advice please.

    Many thanks in advance
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Apr 17, 12:33 AM
    • 48,804 Posts
    • 62,310 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 20th Apr 17, 12:33 AM
    • #2
    • 20th Apr 17, 12:33 AM
    I've spent the day going through the forum but really don't know;

    a) exactly who to appeal to?
    b) can I appeal with any part of the DDA? (I've seen some others on here have)
    c) how to word my letter correctly? (I'm especially struggling with this)

    The DDA isn't current law and hasn't been since 2010, when it became the Equality Act. There's also not been such a thing as 'registered disabled' for decades because there is no GPs' register of disabled people as existed ages ago.

    But yes, you are disabled and should be allowed a reasonable adjustment so I would upload a scan of your Blue Badge to the PE appeal website and (do not mention the delay in appealing, nor the dog unless it's your assistance dog) and state:

    I wish to appeal this parking charge. I am disabled, was tired and I just wanted a drink from my flask and some fresh air and a brief stop at the services. The first quiet area I spotted which also had grass was by the far end of the hotel so I parked there. With the exception of the food pub which has some shrubbery around it, the rest of the large car park is an open one. After half an hour I was back on my way home and saw no difference in signage so this is not well demarcated at all, in my view.

    As far as I know, Services are there for drivers to rest for a couple of hours and I took mere minutes. I attach a copy of my Blue Badge and urge you to cancel the charge immediately. Take note that I have also sent a formal complaint to the Motorway Services Manager and the Hotel Manager, as I feel unfairly harassed by your demand.

    To make a complaint about PE and to try to get a landowner cancellation, there's a phone number for the IBIS Hotel Manager here:

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g1234748-d1229292-r282079699-Ibis_budget_Derby-Willington_Derbyshire_England.html

    and a contact number for the services on the right here:

    http://motorwayservicesonline.co.uk/Derby_and_Burton

    Try that at the same time as the appeal. Come back if rejected, you should still get a POPLA code and most POPLA appeals are won here.

    DO NOT use the same short appeal at POPLA stage - I wrote that deliberately briefly and it's NOT an appeal for POPLA state at all and would lose. Things are different at POPLA stage.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 20-04-2017 at 12:37 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • AngelHarmony
    • By AngelHarmony 20th Apr 17, 9:42 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    AngelHarmony
    • #3
    • 20th Apr 17, 9:42 AM
    • #3
    • 20th Apr 17, 9:42 AM
    Thank you so much for your quick reply I'll send the emails & make the calls today. Fingers crossed for a positive outcome!!
    • AngelHarmony
    • By AngelHarmony 8th May 17, 12:45 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    AngelHarmony
    • #4
    • 8th May 17, 12:45 PM
    • #4
    • 8th May 17, 12:45 PM
    I've finally had an email back from Parking Eye asking me to prove I was a patron of the service area!?! As I only had a 1/2 hr pit stop for fresh air & a drink in had in my car, the only evidence of my visit is the 2 photos they took of my car!! Why does common sense not prevail? Not everyone spends money at services (too expensive!)!!

    Should I just put all that in another email? Many thanks in advance x
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 8th May 17, 1:10 PM
    • 1,422 Posts
    • 2,647 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #5
    • 8th May 17, 1:10 PM
    • #5
    • 8th May 17, 1:10 PM
    Go back to ParkingEye and tell them you were a customer of the facility by being there. There is no requirement to purchase anything and you wish to refer them to the Highway's Agency circular 01/2008 which says that such areas should provide at least:

    Fuel
    Hot drinks and hot food
    Indoor seating
    Two hours free parking
    Free toilets and baby-changing facilities


    Ask them again to cancel and come back with their reply
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.
    • AngelHarmony
    • By AngelHarmony 8th May 17, 1:30 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    AngelHarmony
    • #6
    • 8th May 17, 1:30 PM
    • #6
    • 8th May 17, 1:30 PM
    Thanks for that & I will
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 8th May 17, 2:29 PM
    • 1,422 Posts
    • 2,647 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #7
    • 8th May 17, 2:29 PM
    • #7
    • 8th May 17, 2:29 PM
    Why not send them a link too

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/1679/response/3572/attach/3/DfT%20circ%200108%20web.pdf
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.
    • trisontana
    • By trisontana 8th May 17, 3:17 PM
    • 8,921 Posts
    • 13,625 Thanks
    trisontana
    • #8
    • 8th May 17, 3:17 PM
    • #8
    • 8th May 17, 3:17 PM
    One fly in the ointment. This service area is not located on a motorway, but at the junction of the A50 and and A38. Neither of which is a motorway. So whether this comes under the rules of proper MSAs I don't know.

    I will probably be stopping there in a couple of week's time. So I would like to find out for myself.
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 8th May 17, 3:30 PM
    • 1,422 Posts
    • 2,647 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #9
    • 8th May 17, 3:30 PM
    • #9
    • 8th May 17, 3:30 PM
    They are not MSA's but "Signed service areas on all-purpose trunk roads"

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.8702524,-1.5866206,3a,75y,118h,72.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg8yf2FuB-mnzLxSXxuBPzA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    Convenient sign courtesy of Google. Lesser standards apply but PE seem to be trying in their normal way to be above the law. It seems to be a planning distinction where the Service Area can either use Circ 1/2008 or use submit the Service Area to local planning restrictions.

    Do PE ask for planning permission usually?
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 08-05-2017 at 3:34 PM.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.
    • AngelHarmony
    • By AngelHarmony 7th Jun 17, 4:41 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    AngelHarmony
    Aaarrrrggghhh!!! I HATE Parking Eye!!

    I've followed all the kind advice given on here in my appeal to PE but because of "insufficient evidence" they've rejected it!! As a gesture of goodwill they've reduced the PCN back to £60 for 14 days or I make a POPLA appeal!!

    Why do I feel black mailed for stopping for a 1/2 hr rest stop at a services where I simply parked in the car park, had my own drink & some fresh air to keep me awake so that I didn't fall asleep at the wheel for the last 1/2 hr of my journey home?!?

    Without any receipts (because I didn't buy anything!), how likely is it I can win a POPLA appeal if I've failed so far?? Due to other stress & poor health I don't know if I can keep fighting? (I'm having a relapse with my MS & my head can't think straight for basics let alone this!)

    Any further help &/or advice will continue to be very gratefully received xx
    • Redx
    • By Redx 7th Jun 17, 5:01 PM
    • 15,139 Posts
    • 19,055 Thanks
    Redx
    I suggest you draft a popla appeal based on post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread and put it on here (redacted of course) for critique

    POPLA is a lottery, like court , so who can say what will win , its like judge bingo only assessor bingo

    let us hope you are successful, which is by putting in a strong appeal

    also email your MP and complain to them as well, apply as much pressure as you can because the MP`s are responsible for all of this mess
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Jun 17, 8:25 PM
    • 48,804 Posts
    • 62,310 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    they've rejected it!! As a gesture of goodwill they've reduced the PCN back to £60 for 14 days or I make a POPLA appeal!!
    So...that's what you should have expected? Normal. You sound surprised?!

    We win at POPLA stage; you should have read this in the NEWBIES thread two months ago and been preparing.

    This rejection letter was what you were waiting for. POPLA appeal template points to pick out, are right there in the NEWBIES thread post #3.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 07-06-2017 at 8:28 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • AngelHarmony
    • By AngelHarmony 8th Jun 17, 12:31 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    AngelHarmony
    I'm sorry, I think it's more frustration!! Although yes there was a part of me that stupidly hoped they'd cancel the ridiculous PCN!!

    Unfortunately due to going through the stress of completing the forms etc to hopefully switch my DLA to PIP & a relapse with my MS, other than keeping an eye out for the reply I received today from PE, I've not been able to get back online since just after my last post. I did look at the appeal stickies before posting my OP but haven't since though of course I will now!

    Thanks again for your help, I'll go through the stickies again & then post my draft letter once I've written it.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Jun 17, 9:04 AM
    • 13,978 Posts
    • 21,936 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Thanks again for your help, I'll go through the stickies again & then post my draft letter once I've written it.
    Post #3 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky is the place to start in developing your POPLA draft appeal. You can also use this forum's search engine and search in 'ParkingEye POPLA' or 'PE POPLA' and find recent (last 3 or 4 months) POPLA wins. PE often give up and concede when they see one of the forum's lengthy appeals.

    Come back and show us your draft for critique and fine tuning.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • AngelHarmony
    • By AngelHarmony 4th Jul 17, 2:20 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    AngelHarmony
    Help!!!!
    I'm really hoping & praying that someone can please help me & now urgently??

    After my last post I started re-reading through everything again & trying to build my POPLA appeal letter - I have to admit that I found myself struggling. I then had my broadband go down again & to top it off I had another relapse which affected my vision so with everything I've been unable to get online until yesterday (Mon) evening.

    I thought I'd probably blown being able to do the POPLA appeal but on double checking my final PE email/letter 28 days (from 07.06.17) is the 5th July so I could still get it in (I assume I have until midnight on the 5th?).

    I've spent all evening going back through all of the recommended posts, numerous searches etc. yet I feel as tied up in knots as ever! I just can't seem to cobble anything together other than what I put in my appeal's to PE?? Do I put the same reason as on my original appeal to PE? (See further up) Where do others get all the other paragraph's from?

    I'm really sorry to be begging for this very last minute help but with everything having gone the way it has I honestly don't know what else to do?? I'm so frustrated not just with this stupid company (PE of course!) & my stupid brain that I just can't seem to get into gear I'll be so very grateful for any help to draft this POPLA appeal together please.

    Many, many thanks in advance
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Jul 17, 8:35 AM
    • 13,978 Posts
    • 21,936 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    There are major appeal points to copy and paste in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3. Just tack those together as your starting point, no need to edit any of the text in them unless it clearly contradicts your specific parking event circumstances.

    Do a forum search on 'ParkingEye (or PE) POPLA' and plagiarise other points from the POPLA appeals you'll find in the threads that search will deliver.

    Your POPLA code will probably last for around 30/31 days so don't get into a mad panic.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • AngelHarmony
    • By AngelHarmony 4th Jul 17, 4:19 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    AngelHarmony
    I have done all of that & although I can normally write a good letter, at the moment I think my 5 year old niece would do a better job!!

    Cheers
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Jul 17, 1:32 AM
    • 48,804 Posts
    • 62,310 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    But you are merely building templates, already written.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • AngelHarmony
    • By AngelHarmony 5th Jul 17, 6:58 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    AngelHarmony
    Ok so I've spent hours re-going through the #3 Newbies stickie & searching through other posts but I can't find any others like mine so I don't know what else to write besides the following;

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Dear POPLA Adjudicator

    POPLA:

    I am the registered keeper of XXXXXX & I’m appealing the Parking Charge Notice from ParkingEye.

    I am disabled, was tired and I just wanted a drink from my flask and some fresh air and a brief stop at the services so pulled into Derby & Burton Services. The first quiet area I spotted which also had grass was by the far end of the hotel so I parked there. With the exception of Cherry Tree Farm which has some shrubbery around it, the rest of the large car park is an open one. After half an hour I was back on my way home. I saw no difference in signage where I parked so this is not well demarcated at all, in my view.

    It is my understanding that services are there for drivers to rest for a couple of hours and I took mere minutes.

    Although I had no reason to purchase anything from the services I was still a customer of the facility by being there. There is no requirement to purchase anything from a services & I refer you to the Highway's Agency circular 01/2008 which says that such areas should provide at least:

    Fuel
    Hot drinks and hot food
    Indoor seating
    Two hours free parking
    Free toilets and baby-changing facilities

    * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    I know this is pretty much everything I said in my original appeal's to PE but I honestly have absolutely no idea what else to put??

    Any further help will be most gratefully received. (My 28 days to appeal ends today)

    Many thanks in advance xx
    • AngelHarmony
    • By AngelHarmony 5th Jul 17, 11:00 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    AngelHarmony
    I have to give in for today as I can't stay awake any longer!!
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