Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • alex_163163
    • By alex_163163 19th Apr 17, 4:40 PM
    • 99Posts
    • 62Thanks
    alex_163163
    Lasting Power of Attorney help
    • #1
    • 19th Apr 17, 4:40 PM
    Lasting Power of Attorney help 19th Apr 17 at 4:40 PM
    Hello everyone,


    Just looking for some advice on how to approach this situation with my grandma.
    Basically, my parents and I are trying to persuade her that setting one up is in her best interests (welfare and financial). However she is being really stubborn and won't do it.
    We have tried to explain that it wouldn't come into effect until a doctor certified that she couldn't look after her own affairs anymore, but she refuses to entertain the idea.
    It's like she thinks that we want to steal her money! Which of course we don't! We just want to make sure we can provide for her care if she ever needs it. She owns her house and has quite a lot in savings so would not qualify for any state-funded care/ carers etc.
    She has always been very aware of her finances, and still is. She knows to the penny pretty much what's in the bank! So she is switched on in that respect. She is in OK health currently, but last year was assessed by the Dementia Unit. She wasn't diagnosed with anything other than short term memory loss no worse than anyone else in their 80s (according to the Dr), but she seems to be getting worse to me.
    Talking to her about setting up an LPA is like talking to a brick wall! So I'm hoping someone on here might have some suggestions on how we can get her to see it as a useful thing to do.
    Has anyone else faced a similar situation with an elderly family member?


    Any advice welcome!
Page 1
    • trailingspouse
    • By trailingspouse 19th Apr 17, 5:09 PM
    • 1,875 Posts
    • 2,553 Thanks
    trailingspouse
    • #2
    • 19th Apr 17, 5:09 PM
    • #2
    • 19th Apr 17, 5:09 PM
    I wonder if there is someone independent of the family who could speak to her? Doctor maybe? (Although they're busy enough as it is), or someone from Age UK, or a trusted friend, or maybe someone at the bank?

    If she's 'got it in her head' that you're after her money, you're unlikely to be able to help her to see sense unaided. Has she made a will? If she has, then she can be safe in the knowledge that the money will go where she wants it to go (assuming there is anything left after care costs etc). You're right that you need to get this sorted while she is still of sound mind.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 19th Apr 17, 5:19 PM
    • 27,066 Posts
    • 69,013 Thanks
    Mojisola
    • #3
    • 19th Apr 17, 5:19 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Apr 17, 5:19 PM
    So I'm hoping someone on here might have some suggestions on how we can get her to see it as a useful thing to do.
    Originally posted by alex_163163
    Set out the time frame and cost of doing it now compared with the same if someone has to go to the Court of Protection to become her deputy?
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 19th Apr 17, 7:42 PM
    • 2,917 Posts
    • 3,090 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #4
    • 19th Apr 17, 7:42 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Apr 17, 7:42 PM
    It is not actually true that an LPA can only be used when someone loses capacity, it can be used from the moment it is registered.

    Have you got yours in place yet? If not see if she would be willing to do hers in conjunction with doing yours, you could even make her one of your attorneys.

    You could also tell her that should something happen to her without having LPAs in place then the LA might have to step in to manage her finances.
    • alex_163163
    • By alex_163163 19th Apr 17, 8:26 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    alex_163163
    • #5
    • 19th Apr 17, 8:26 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Apr 17, 8:26 PM
    It is not actually true that an LPA can only be used when someone loses capacity, it can be used from the moment it is registered.

    Have you got yours in place yet? If not see if she would be willing to do hers in conjunction with doing yours, you could even make her one of your attorneys.

    You could also tell her that should something happen to her without having LPAs in place then the LA might have to step in to manage her finances.
    Originally posted by Keep pedalling
    No I haven't got mine in place yet. But my parents (both 60 yo) are going to set one up naming me as their attorney, and the plan is to try get my grandma to go along, so she can at least talk to the solicitor about it. Hopefully he can explain it better than us, and make her see it's a good thing.
    I live 2 hours away from grandma, and my parents live 5 mins from her, so makes more sense for my mum (her daughter) to act for my grandma.

    We have told her that about the LA but it falls on deaf ears. She's the type of person to just stop listening to you/ change the subject repeatedly until you just give up.
    She has a will in place and I know she's updated that in fairly recent years, so she doesn't mind thinking about death etc. In fact it's a regular topic with her! But we just can't get this across to her. We have been gradually trying for the last couple of years. But now with us getting more and more concerned time is of the essence.

    The idea of outlining the costs of the Court of protection could be good. She is very focussed on money, and hates to be wasteful so that may work. Worth a try!
    • newatc
    • By newatc 19th Apr 17, 8:32 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    newatc
    • #6
    • 19th Apr 17, 8:32 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Apr 17, 8:32 PM
    Perhaps she would be comforted if the LPA was set up so that it could only be used if she lost mental capacity which would require certification from a health professional (option on form).
    • pphillips
    • By pphillips 19th Apr 17, 10:45 PM
    • 144 Posts
    • 111 Thanks
    pphillips
    • #7
    • 19th Apr 17, 10:45 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Apr 17, 10:45 PM
    I would tell grandma that if I wanted to steal from her I would not use an LPA, which leaves a paper trail behind, I would find another way!
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 19th Apr 17, 10:47 PM
    • 37,286 Posts
    • 33,577 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    • #8
    • 19th Apr 17, 10:47 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Apr 17, 10:47 PM
    The only thing I can suggest is sharing any stories you hear about where it's caused problems NOT having one in place. But if she won't, she won't!
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 2 baby jumpers, 1 shawl, 2 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure ...
    Current projects: 1 shawl, 1 baby jumper
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 20th Apr 17, 9:05 AM
    • 28,039 Posts
    • 16,803 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #9
    • 20th Apr 17, 9:05 AM
    • #9
    • 20th Apr 17, 9:05 AM
    No I haven't got mine in place yet. But my parents (both 60 yo) are going to set one up naming me as their attorney, and the plan is to try get my grandma to go along, so she can at least talk to the solicitor about it. Hopefully he can explain it better than us, and make her see it's a good thing.
    I live 2 hours away from grandma, and my parents live 5 mins from her, so makes more sense for my mum (her daughter) to act for my grandma.

    We have told her that about the LA but it falls on deaf ears. She's the type of person to just stop listening to you/ change the subject repeatedly until you just give up.
    She has a will in place and I know she's updated that in fairly recent years, so she doesn't mind thinking about death etc. In fact it's a regular topic with her! But we just can't get this across to her. We have been gradually trying for the last couple of years. But now with us getting more and more concerned time is of the essence.

    The idea of outlining the costs of the Court of protection could be good. She is very focussed on money, and hates to be wasteful so that may work. Worth a try!
    Originally posted by alex_163163
    using a solicitor to fill in a simple form is incomparable with someone that does not want to waste money.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 20th Apr 17, 9:23 AM
    • 27,066 Posts
    • 69,013 Thanks
    Mojisola
    No I haven't got mine in place yet. But my parents (both 60 yo) are going to set one up naming me as their attorney
    Originally posted by alex_163163
    It can be a risk if you only name one person as your attorney. You're relying on that one person being fit and able when they are needed.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 20th Apr 17, 9:32 AM
    • 2,917 Posts
    • 3,090 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    It can be a risk if you only name one person as your attorney. You're relying on that one person being fit and able when they are needed.
    Originally posted by Mojisola
    Absolutely, we have named each other and our two children as attornies, and it is also nessasary to have them act jointly and severally so that the LPA does not fail if one of the attornies can no longer act.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 20th Apr 17, 10:17 AM
    • 1,878 Posts
    • 2,650 Thanks
    Malthusian
    using a solicitor to fill in a simple form is incomparable with someone that does not want to waste money.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    If seeing a professional who can persuade her a) her family aren't after her money b) if they were, they wouldn't be getting her to complete a POA, is the difference between not making a POA and making a POA, then it's money well spent.

    POAs do not have as many pitfalls as Wills but there are still plenty of mistakes people can make if they don't know what they're doing, e.g. naming only one attorney, allowing attorneys to act jointly only and not severally, inserting silly instructions and restrictions.

    It is not actually true that an LPA can only be used when someone loses capacity, it can be used from the moment it is registered.
    by Keep pedalling
    Not necessarily. There is an option on the form to say that the attorneys should only be able to use the LPA when you lose capacity. However, the form itself advises you not to tick that box, because it makes the LPA less useful. Your attorneys might have to prove you don't have capacity every time they use it, or you might want them to be able to act on your behalf while you still have capacity because you're bedridden.

    There is no realistic prospect of someone misusing the LPA while you still have capacity because when you caught them doing so you'd countermand their instructions, cancel the LPA, and sue them in the unlikely event any loss had occurred.
    • alex_163163
    • By alex_163163 20th Apr 17, 12:16 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    alex_163163
    It can be a risk if you only name one person as your attorney. You're relying on that one person being fit and able when they are needed.
    Originally posted by Mojisola

    Yes I see your point. I think my parents will likely name each other and me. I have no brothers or sister and neither do my parents. We are quite a small family.
    • alex_163163
    • By alex_163163 20th Apr 17, 12:27 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    alex_163163
    using a solicitor to fill in a simple form is incomparable with someone that does not want to waste money.
    Originally posted by getmore4less

    Luckily the solicitor is a friend of my dad's so the cost will not be as high. Yes it is going to be more than DIY, but if it gets her to sign it after the solicitor explains everything then I think it's money well spent. The only other people she would listen to is the doctor most likely, but we don't want to waste an NHS appointment for this when someone who is actually ill needs it.
    • no.1swimmum
    • By no.1swimmum 20th Apr 17, 2:11 PM
    • 1,383 Posts
    • 3,841 Thanks
    no.1swimmum
    My Sister and I completed power of Attorney forms some years ago, at the request of an elderly family friend (who I have known all of my life - her husband passed away the year I was born so has been alone for just over 50 years) who has a considerable amount of money but not a single living relative. In the last year her health has declined quite considerably and she is registered blind, shes also deaf with an acute heart condition. 9 months ago whilst dealing with her solicitor about another matter he recommended that we evoke (i think this is the right word) this as she was beginning to decline, she whole heartedly agreed (her will is split between us, our children and our parents as we have always treated her as family - she spent every Christmas and Easter at my parents, up until Christmas 2015 but was not well enough to come last Christmas.

    Evoking has not been an easy process in its self, I have visited both banking establishments twice so far with her paperwork, and mine - and I am back again to one with all original paperwork this Saturday as they did not evoke it on two bonds she has with them. This needs to be done asap as she has in the last month moved into a private care home, that she is self funding and bills are starting to arrive - the problem now is if she is required to sign documentation this is not possible as she has only very limited peripheral vision in one eye, and no vision at all in the other.

    Please ask someone to explain to her again the importance of being organised in case anything like this happens to her, as I am sure that it will be very difficult if no provision has been made.

    • Newlifer17
    • By Newlifer17 20th Apr 17, 3:24 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Newlifer17
    My Mum was the same and very stubborn . What I did was sent away for some forms and leaflets and placed them in her room for her to look at herself. After a few weeks she approached me and said it was a good idea in case her memory ever got worse.
    Unfortunately her dementia got worse quite quickly and we could never get her on a good day to see the solicitor. In the end I had to apply to the court of protection after she was assessed not having the mental capacity to deal with her own finances ( and my brother was taking advantage of her borrowing money etc)
    Good Luck!!
    • Primrose
    • By Primrose 20th Apr 17, 6:31 PM
    • 7,365 Posts
    • 24,969 Thanks
    Primrose
    I can only suggest you write to her and mention your concern that if she ends up being a court of protection case it will be strangers who don't know or love her who will be looking after her affairs and your parents will have no legal rights in trying to work in her behalf. If she hasn't completed a. health and Welfare form it will be Social Services who could just stick her in a residential care home miles away where she won't get any visitors and again your parents will have no rights in fighting in her behalf.

    Perhaps point out to your gran that if she has a fall or a prolonged spell in hospital nobody will be able to pay her bills, her house contents insurance renewal premium etc and she could built up debts which again your parents won't be able to sort off without a PoA. Tell her it can be registered and she can keep it under lock and key herself so that nobody can use it without her permission (perhaps she doesn't understand that). Remind her it's just for emergencies and she has total control while she has control of her faculties.

    And point out that even to help her manage her money and deal with the bank if she's ill or in hospital nobody can do anything without this document. Maybe if the rest of the family set up their own Pof A and you do too, she will start to better understand the process.

    Having some leaflets sent to her might be a good idea too so she can read and browse through them in her own time without feeling under any pressure. I think in the end it all comes down to a question of trust and fear that even your loved ones will steal or defraud you of your assets. It seems a harsh thing to suggest but maybe if your parents stayed away from your nan for a while and explained that they felt hurt because she didn't trust them she might realise that that she has nobody else in whom to depend if things go wrong for her.

    Another tactic might be to suggest that if she starts to find managing her finances and affairs troublesome, your parents having a Pof A would allow them to provide secretarial or administrative help while she remained in overall control. This is the technique which finally worked for my father. Being a business man during his working life, he suddenly realised that having a secretary to rid himself of all the troublesome hand writing of letters when I could do it on a computer for him (and give him copies for his records) had a great deal of merit ! I always made a point of "seeking his direction first" and gradually when the heavens didn't fall in with anything going wrong he one day said to me "I'm so glad I don,t have to have this responsibility and hassle any more" .

    Can your Gran use a computer and take control her own financial correspondence? That may be a starting point on which to base your persuasion.
    Last edited by Primrose; 20-04-2017 at 6:52 PM.
    • gairlochgal
    • By gairlochgal 20th Apr 17, 11:45 PM
    • 427 Posts
    • 726 Thanks
    gairlochgal
    We've just got lasting power of attorney in place for my parents. The incentive for them was realising they were starting to struggle with paying bills. Although they are super organised and have most things on direct debit, dad was using credit card for incidentals, not making payments and then getting chaser letters from the bank. I offered admin help and he appreciated that

    My daughter and i have just become attorneys for them - not my brother - and that's all about trust and style. We're very chilled and won't take over whereas my brother with the best intentions worries they are paying too much for electricity and ends up lecturing them which they don't need. The thing about being an attorney is to support them to keep going as long and well as they can manage.

    The other argument that worked well was that we'd step in and help if there was a big repair needed in the house and that power of attorney would make that easier.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

5,267Posts Today

4,423Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • RT @itvMLshow: We are filming tomorrow in Torremolinos! If you're in the area, head to Branigans on Av. Palma de Mallorca between 5pm-6.45p?

  • RT @mmhpi: ??The money and mental health manifesto - 10 steps to boost #mentalhealth & financial #wellbeing for Britain #GE2017 https://t.c?

  • In Spain in a restaurant ready for filming in Torremolinos tomorrow (do come and see us if you're there) watching #mcfcmufc #CTID

  • Follow Martin