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    • rbeck31
    • By rbeck31 19th Apr 17, 4:29 PM
    • 19Posts
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    rbeck31
    Ordering soil on the internet
    • #1
    • 19th Apr 17, 4:29 PM
    Ordering soil on the internet 19th Apr 17 at 4:29 PM
    Hi
    Would be interested people's views/advice.
    I ordered a tonne of soil by internet. A man in an 18 tonne HGV tried to deliver today. Our shared driveway is on the corner of our road and he said he couldn't get the lorry up - we have never had issues with this before - and as it is on a slight incline he said he needed help with the pallet, which unfortunately I couldn't provide.

    The company I bought the soil from then phoned and we ended in a long discussion with no resolution, hence my request for help.

    Their point is that they only guarantee kerbside delivery and that this was in their T&Cs, as well as that delivery would be on an 18 tonner, and that I was happy to make the order on that basis.

    My position is that we (and our neighbours who share the driveway) have had bigger trucks deliver up the driveway successfully and therefore when ordering would on the basis of previous experience expect that the driver could deliver to the house.

    The driver has now left and the company have sent an email saying we either need to pay for redelivery, or return charge of £42.

    Please could anyone advise if I have any recourse? If I had expected that they wouldn't deliver to the house I wouldn't have ordered but as other drivers have been able to (in similar size and bigger) this was not even contemplated as an issue.

    Hope you can help and thanks in advance
Page 1
    • daytona0
    • By daytona0 19th Apr 17, 6:02 PM
    • 2,237 Posts
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    daytona0
    • #2
    • 19th Apr 17, 6:02 PM
    • #2
    • 19th Apr 17, 6:02 PM
    The funny thing is that, if the HGV were to cause damage on the driveway, you would be straight on the phone to request compensation (and your neighbor would be unhappy about not being asked for permission to access the driveway).

    Seems like kerbside deliveries should be the industry standard in these situations (not least because many houses DO NOT have a driveway).... Maybe the companies in the past were being a bit negligent or careless?
    • peachyprice
    • By peachyprice 19th Apr 17, 6:10 PM
    • 18,616 Posts
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    peachyprice
    • #3
    • 19th Apr 17, 6:10 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Apr 17, 6:10 PM
    Kerbside delivery to level ground is not unusual for bulk deliveries like this.

    What T&C's did you agree to when you placed the order? That is what is relevant, not what you think should be deliverable.

    You also have to remember it's not just the size of the vehicle, it's the weight it's carrying too, a lorry filled with 1 tonne pallets of soil/aggregate will be a lot heavier that a lorry filled with say furniture or white goods.
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 19th Apr 17, 6:32 PM
    • 4,723 Posts
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    marliepanda
    • #4
    • 19th Apr 17, 6:32 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Apr 17, 6:32 PM
    You agreed to kerbside delivery.

    It doesn't matter if a fifty tonne truck drove into your garden last time.
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    • ThumbRemote
    • By ThumbRemote 19th Apr 17, 7:35 PM
    • 3,794 Posts
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    ThumbRemote
    • #5
    • 19th Apr 17, 7:35 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Apr 17, 7:35 PM
    I'd have thought this counted as refusing to accept the delivery, so just tell them you want to cancel the order under the CCRs and you should be due a full refund.
    • Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • By Blackbeard of Perranporth 19th Apr 17, 7:40 PM
    • 4,580 Posts
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    Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • #6
    • 19th Apr 17, 7:40 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Apr 17, 7:40 PM
    Hi
    Would be interested people's views/advice.
    I ordered a tonne of soil by internet. A man in an 18 tonne HGV tried to deliver today. Our shared driveway is on the corner of our road and he said he couldn't get the lorry up - we have never had issues with this before - and as it is on a slight incline he said he needed help with the pallet, which unfortunately I couldn't provide.

    The company I bought the soil from then phoned and we ended in a long discussion with no resolution, hence my request for help.

    Their point is that they only guarantee kerbside delivery and that this was in their T&Cs, as well as that delivery would be on an 18 tonner, and that I was happy to make the order on that basis.

    My position is that we (and our neighbours who share the driveway) have had bigger trucks deliver up the driveway successfully and therefore when ordering would on the basis of previous experience expect that the driver could deliver to the house.

    The driver has now left and the company have sent an email saying we either need to pay for redelivery, or return charge of £42.

    Please could anyone advise if I have any recourse? If I had expected that they wouldn't deliver to the house I wouldn't have ordered but as other drivers have been able to (in similar size and bigger) this was not even contemplated as an issue.

    Hope you can help and thanks in advance
    Originally posted by rbeck31
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    • rbeck31
    • By rbeck31 19th Apr 17, 9:10 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    rbeck31
    • #7
    • 19th Apr 17, 9:10 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Apr 17, 9:10 PM
    I'd have thought this counted as refusing to accept the delivery, so just tell them you want to cancel the order under the CCRs and you should be due a full refund.
    Originally posted by ThumbRemote
    Hi - would you mind saying what CCRs are and how I would get a full refund? Many thanks for your time
    • prosaver
    • By prosaver 19th Apr 17, 9:15 PM
    • 6,497 Posts
    • 5,084 Thanks
    prosaver
    • #8
    • 19th Apr 17, 9:15 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Apr 17, 9:15 PM
    i had some delivered wasnt sure it was a ton though..how could i check it.?
    Anyway he dumped it on the driveway.
    wheelbarrowed it.
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    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 19th Apr 17, 10:16 PM
    • 18,650 Posts
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    wealdroam
    • #9
    • 19th Apr 17, 10:16 PM
    • #9
    • 19th Apr 17, 10:16 PM
    Hi - would you mind saying what CCRs are and how I would get a full refund? Many thanks for your time
    Originally posted by rbeck31
    CCRs = The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013
    • ThumbRemote
    • By ThumbRemote 19th Apr 17, 10:57 PM
    • 3,794 Posts
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    ThumbRemote
    Or, explained slightly more clearly: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations
    • rbeck31
    • By rbeck31 20th Apr 17, 7:42 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    rbeck31
    Thank you both of you. So as they couldn't deliver it is a returned load and they state return delivery cost of £42 + VAT - I originally paid £7 for delivery. Are they able to do this? (Of course, I recognise that I can organise return myself - don't happen to have a truck!)
    • daytona0
    • By daytona0 20th Apr 17, 12:14 PM
    • 2,237 Posts
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    daytona0
    Thank you both of you. So as they couldn't deliver it is a returned load and they state return delivery cost of £42 + VAT - I originally paid £7 for delivery. Are they able to do this? (Of course, I recognise that I can organise return myself - don't happen to have a truck!)
    Originally posted by rbeck31
    I'll leave it to other posters as they have more expertise but I would just like to point out that you only refused delivery because you were unwilling to go along with their Ts and Cs (the ones you agreed to when purchasing), not because you cancelled the order!

    I do wonder to what extent you have actually breached the contract... That would leave you open to being liable for reasonable costs to remedy the situation. That can include return delivery costs, which would not have been incurred had you simply read the Ts and Cs in the first place.
    • rbeck31
    • By rbeck31 20th Apr 17, 4:50 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    rbeck31
    I'll leave it to other posters as they have more expertise but I would just like to point out that you only refused delivery because you were unwilling to go along with their Ts and Cs (the ones you agreed to when purchasing), not because you cancelled the order!

    I do wonder to what extent you have actually breached the contract... That would leave you open to being liable for reasonable costs to remedy the situation. That can include return delivery costs, which would not have been incurred had you simply read the Ts and Cs in the first place.
    Originally posted by daytona0
    Thank you, and I do totally understand what you are saying. However, I'm stuck in a situation where other similar and bigger lorries managed to get up the driveway and there was little effort from the driver to try. Therefore there was no anticipation that this driver would not be capable of doing this given others had managed it. However, I do appreciate the time you take to add your view.
    • foxtrotoscar
    • By foxtrotoscar 20th Apr 17, 5:08 PM
    • 1,011 Posts
    • 1,482 Thanks
    foxtrotoscar
    Thank you, and I do totally understand what you are saying. However, I'm stuck in a situation where other similar and bigger lorries managed to get up the driveway and there was little effort from the driver to try. Therefore there was no anticipation that this driver would not be capable of doing this given others had managed it. However, I do appreciate the time you take to add your view.
    Originally posted by rbeck31
    You agreed to a kerbside drop when you placed your order. The Company you ordered from clearly doesn't want to risk damaging people's driveways. Why did you a$$ u me? Why instead did you not order from a Company that would meet your needs?
    • peachyprice
    • By peachyprice 20th Apr 17, 5:25 PM
    • 18,616 Posts
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    peachyprice
    Thank you, and I do totally understand what you are saying. However, I'm stuck in a situation where other similar and bigger lorries managed to get up the driveway and there was little effort from the driver to try. Therefore there was no anticipation that this driver would not be capable of doing this given others had managed it. However, I do appreciate the time you take to add your view.
    Originally posted by rbeck31
    But you said it yourself, right here:

    Their point is that they only guarantee kerbside delivery and that this was in their T&Cs, as well as that delivery would be on an 18 tonner, and that I was happy to make the order on that basis.
    Originally posted by rbeck31
    Your mistake was that you assumed this would not apply to you. And you were wrong. It doesn't matter what other delivery drivers have done in the past, this delivery was to kerbside, this is what they promised, this is what you agreed to, this is what they attempted, you refused because you thought you knew better than the driver, how is it anybody else's fault but your own?
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
    • daytona0
    • By daytona0 20th Apr 17, 6:56 PM
    • 2,237 Posts
    • 2,662 Thanks
    daytona0
    But you said it yourself, right here:



    Your mistake was that you assumed this would not apply to you. And you were wrong. It doesn't matter what other delivery drivers have done in the past, this delivery was to kerbside, this is what they promised, this is what you agreed to, this is what they attempted, you refused because you thought you knew better than the driver, how is it anybody else's fault but your own?
    Originally posted by peachyprice
    Indeed, and I do wonder how much this could be considered a breach of contract as OP has failed to abide by the Ts and Cs (whether they are fair or not is another question, but seems fair to me?).

    Also, had damage occurred to the driveway then the OP would very happily use this Term and Condition as a basis for their compensation claim against the company! Quite ironic really!

    Me thinks that previous companies/drivers were more negligent/careless than helpful to the OP...
    • ThumbRemote
    • By ThumbRemote 20th Apr 17, 10:46 PM
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    • 4,833 Thanks
    ThumbRemote
    Indeed, and I do wonder how much this could be considered a breach of contract as OP has failed to abide by the Ts and Cs (whether they are fair or not is another question, but seems fair to me?).
    Originally posted by daytona0
    The OP has not breached the contract because the contract allows for them to cancel the goods. The provision for this is in their statutory rights under the CCRs, which form part of the terms of the contract.


    The reason why they cancelled is, legally speaking, irrelevant. The CCRs simply give an absolute right to cancel for any reason whatsoever.

    The return charge is not enforceable for a number of reasons. Firstly, the soil was never actually delivered to the OP. It never left the possession of the retailer, therefore the OP cannot be held responsible for returning it. Secondly, the amount they are asking for is clearly not the actual cost of the return. After all, the lorry was returning to the depot, full or empty. I also suspect the cost isn't in the T&Cs either, it's just a number they've thought of after the fact.

    rbeck31, tell the retailer that you are cancelling the order as per your rights under the Consumer Contract Regulations. As the soil was never delivered, you are not liable for any costs in returning it. Therefore you are due a full refund.

    If they refuse to provide this, contact the issuer of whichever card you paid with - look up Chargeback for debit cards, or potentially Section 75 for credit cards if the cost was over £100.
    • daytona0
    • By daytona0 20th Apr 17, 11:11 PM
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    daytona0
    The OP has not breached the contract because the contract allows for them to cancel the goods. The provision for this is in their statutory rights under the CCRs, which form part of the terms of the contract.


    The reason why they cancelled is, legally speaking, irrelevant. The CCRs simply give an absolute right to cancel for any reason whatsoever.
    Originally posted by ThumbRemote
    The only thing which is throwing me is that OP has not yet cancelled the order..... They refused delivery because they refused to follow the Ts and Cs, not because they wanted to cancel. Wouldn't that be considered a breach?

    The talk of CCR cancellation is only happening after OP failed to follow one of the Ts and Cs and if they allow for a £42 charge to be made wouldn't that take priority?

    But otherwise cheers for the informative post
    • photome
    • By photome 21st Apr 17, 6:50 AM
    • 12,732 Posts
    • 8,211 Thanks
    photome
    Thank you both of you. So as they couldn't deliver it is a returned load and they state return delivery cost of £42 + VAT - I originally paid £7 for delivery. Are they able to do this? (Of course, I recognise that I can organise return myself - don't happen to have a truck!)
    Originally posted by rbeck31
    The OP has not breached the contract because the contract allows for them to cancel the goods. The provision for this is in their statutory rights under the CCRs, which form part of the terms of the contract.


    The reason why they cancelled is, legally speaking, irrelevant. The CCRs simply give an absolute right to cancel for any reason whatsoever.

    The return charge is not enforceable for a number of reasons. Firstly, the soil was never actually delivered to the OP. It never left the possession of the retailer, therefore the OP cannot be held responsible for returning it. Secondly, the amount they are asking for is clearly not the actual cost of the return. After all, the lorry was returning to the depot, full or empty. I also suspect the cost isn't in the T&Cs either, it's just a number they've thought of after the fact.

    rbeck31, tell the retailer that you are cancelling the order as per your rights under the Consumer Contract Regulations. As the soil was never delivered, you are not liable for any costs in returning it. Therefore you are due a full refund.

    If they refuse to provide this, contact the issuer of whichever card you paid with - look up Chargeback for debit cards, or potentially Section 75 for credit cards if the cost was over £100.
    Originally posted by ThumbRemote
    doesnt that post by the OP read as if delivery has taken place
    • peachyprice
    • By peachyprice 21st Apr 17, 7:27 AM
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    peachyprice
    TSecondly, the amount they are asking for is clearly not the actual cost of the return. After all, the lorry was returning to the depot, full or empty. I also suspect the cost isn't in the T&Cs either, it's just a number they've thought of after the fact.
    Originally posted by ThumbRemote
    You're assuming they were using they're own truck. Whenever I have had bulk kerbside deliveries it has been through a 3rd party pallet delivery service which would have then charged the retailer for a returned delivery.
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
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