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  • FIRST POST
    • mlang88
    • By mlang88 19th Apr 17, 12:16 PM
    • 5Posts
    • 1Thanks
    mlang88
    SIPS/GLAdstone LBC
    • #1
    • 19th Apr 17, 12:16 PM
    SIPS/GLAdstone LBC 19th Apr 17 at 12:16 PM
    Apologies, this is my first time posting on here, and i am aware that this topic has been covered a few times but I still have questions as my case is slightly different to ones I have read. I have also scanned the NEWBIE thread although admittedly, I felt a bit lost. So I guess I am here for a bit of guidance really on either what I am about to write, or in the form of a nudge towards a particular thread.

    Background:

    I have been parking in this particular SIPS car park in Ancoats, Manchester. I have always used 'Pay by Phone' so have around 10 receipts for this car park over the course of summer 2016 (I rarely drive into work). On the final occasion, I was given a PCN. I immediately took pictures of my car in situ, and of the parking ticket I purchased, because I thought the warden hadn't seen it. I appealed through the SIPS channels, and was told a week later that this was issued because in fact, the car park was permit only (I learnt that it had changed some time earlier that year from a 2 car park to this).

    I have pictures of the signage, it HAS changed to state that it is permit only, however, I have pictures of the way it previously looked and the sign is essentially the same colour etc so not immediately noticeable.

    So I have had numerous email exchanges where I have appealed for common sense on the matter - there's a 2 car park next door as well, my point being that it would make no sense for me to park in one where I knew a permit was necessary, clearly just a mistake. This was met with a cold response which I gather is their nominated mood. I have also contacted my MP in order to try and resolve this, but even the councillor in charge of parking and cctv was unable to pull any rank over these people.

    My questions are:
    1) The fact that I have paid to park there previously; does this sort of mean that they've legitimised my actions legally? (might be a stretch that). Also, I paid 2 for a parking ticket on the day, so I have paid to park there technically, is there anything in that?
    2) Should I respond to the LBC? I've seen a couple of templates on here but none seem relevant
    3) Have I done anything that is going to compromise my appeal here?

    Thanks in advance!
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Apr 17, 7:04 PM
    • 45,826 Posts
    • 58,826 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 19th Apr 17, 7:04 PM
    • #2
    • 19th Apr 17, 7:04 PM
    I was given a PCN. I immediately took pictures of my car in situ, and of the parking ticket I purchased, because I thought the warden hadn't seen it. I appealed through the SIPS channels, and was told a week later that this was issued because in fact, the car park was permit only (I learnt that it had changed some time earlier that year from a 2 car park to this).

    I have pictures of the signage, it HAS changed to state that it is permit only, however, I have pictures of the way it previously looked and the sign is essentially the same colour etc so not immediately noticeable.
    So that goes against the IPC Code of Practice re new enforcement rules requiring extra signs for clarity for regulars/locals, otherwise people like you would not know. Also how come you were allowed to Pay by Phone, if this site had been removed as a P&D car park the app should have come back bouncing the attempt to pay. Failure by SIP again, to update their phone provider.

    Yes, reply to the LBC pointing out (and quoting) the section in the IPC CoP about new parking rules needing to be signed much more clearly. And mention that the App was not disabled by SIP, so why were payments still being made re this site and who was receiving them? SIP?

    Deny liability, tell them you will argue this robustly in court. Come back at court claim stage although you would do well to prepare for that and read other Gladstones claims threads and defences, as well as post #2 of the NEWBIES thread, in readiness.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 19th Apr 17, 7:53 PM
    • 81 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    Johnersh
    • #3
    • 19th Apr 17, 7:53 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Apr 17, 7:53 PM
    Theoretically there could be scope to run an interesting point. Perhaps an additional argument rather than the main one.

    IF (which is denied) the new signage did constitute a new contractual parking arrangement with the driver, it was superseded by the subsequent contract (ie. That alternative payment terms of parking were offered by the app and the driver accepted with payment) - a legal principle in which later t&c's can prevail, a.k.a. The last shot doctrine. You may need to check the terms of the parking app on your phone to see if this (nice in theory) legal principle can be relied upon.
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