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  • FIRST POST
    • Rod74
    • By Rod74 19th Apr 17, 11:22 AM
    • 7Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Rod74
    ParkingEye Notice received 21 days later
    • #1
    • 19th Apr 17, 11:22 AM
    ParkingEye Notice received 21 days later 19th Apr 17 at 11:22 AM
    Hi all,

    Really hope there is something I can do with regards to this and someone here can help me, as the thought of paying this company £100 makes me feel ill!!! They have just written back rejecting my letter of appeal - and now advise I either pay up or take this further with POPLA.

    Here is the situation (in brief!) -
    On the 11th March I entered the car park at the Wye Valley Visitor Centre in Ross-on-Wye. I had no idea there was now Pay and Display in this car park, and had no change - so walked straight into the Reception area got change, and paid £3 for 4 hours at the parking meter. When I left the car park my ticket was still within the 4 hours (by around 5 / 10 minutes).

    21 days later (1st April) I received a Parking Notice Charge from ParkingEye (letter issued 29 March) requesting £100, for the time my car was in the car park - 4 hours 11 minutes.

    Here is where I wish I had looked on this forum - as I was so annoyed that I instantly typed and posted a letter stating -
    - that I received the letter 21 days later,
    - explained about getting change to get a ticket,
    - left within the 4 hours on ticket,
    - that I entered my Registration Number in the Parking Meter so the times on my ticket could be verified.

    Another thing, two days before receiving the Parking Notice I cleared out my wallet of old receipts..... and remember the Parking Ticket being binned at that time. So unfortunately no longer have the ticket.

    Yesterday (18th April), I received a letter predictably rejecting my letter of appeal.

    Am still determined to fight this and appeal to POPLA...... but this time, I going to take my time and do a little research - and hope that someone out there has some advice?!

    Thanks for reading.
    Last edited by Rod74; 19-04-2017 at 1:32 PM.
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 19th Apr 17, 11:59 AM
    • 14,082 Posts
    • 22,110 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 19th Apr 17, 11:59 AM
    • #2
    • 19th Apr 17, 11:59 AM
    Plenty of research to be done, starting with the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3 where there are some off the shelf POPLA appeal templates to use.

    With such a marginal case (for the PPC) as yours appears, with a piledriver appeal, developed from your research, the templates and other appeal points gleaned from other threads, ParkingEye almost always capitulate and not contest the appeal. Then it's all over.

    You will need to look to develop (copy) appeal points that include:

    No keeper liability, including Notice to Keeper errors (PoFA 2012)
    No Contract to manage parking
    No Locus Standi
    Signage
    Consumer Rights Act 2015
    BPA Code of Practice breaches
    Why Beavis doesn't apply in your parking event

    Have you complained - and explained (as you have above) - to the Wye Valley Visitor Centre? They are likely to have the power to cancel this - and this is the most potent of weapons for you to use. Contact them (in writing) to let them know how their contractor has just ensured that you and your family will never visit them again. If they don't play ball, then warn others of the danger of parking there by posting on their TripAdvisor, Facebook, Twitter pages.

    Undertake both above in parallel. Don't miss your POPLA deadline as PE are nasty and sue up to 25,000 motorists a year.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Rod74
    • By Rod74 19th Apr 17, 1:07 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Rod74
    • #3
    • 19th Apr 17, 1:07 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Apr 17, 1:07 PM
    Thank you so much for your quick reply! Such a lot of great info to take in. Yes, a lot of research to be done - can't deny I'm finding it all a bit daunting as I'm not legally minded at all, but am definitely taking it further.


    Great suggestion to contact the Wye Valley Visitor Centre - will do that now!!!


    Thanks again
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 19th Apr 17, 1:15 PM
    • 14,082 Posts
    • 22,110 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #4
    • 19th Apr 17, 1:15 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Apr 17, 1:15 PM
    I'm not legally minded at all
    Nor am I, certainly I'm not legally qualified. But you don't necessarily need to understand full legalities to copy and paste, just as long as you don't blindly copy and paste. So spend a bit of time reading each appeal point a few times so you start to get the gist, rather than seeing nothing but a sea of words. Things will start to fall into place after a few passes - I promise.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Rod74
    • By Rod74 19th Apr 17, 1:31 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Rod74
    • #5
    • 19th Apr 17, 1:31 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Apr 17, 1:31 PM
    Copy and paste is something I can do - brilliant stuff, will get reading.


    Been on the Wye Valley Visitor Centre website and their 'Parking Notice' section is 'under maintenance'! Plus no e-mail address to contact them...... a letter it is then!


    Thanks again for replying
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Apr 17, 7:12 PM
    • 49,043 Posts
    • 62,511 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 19th Apr 17, 7:12 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Apr 17, 7:12 PM
    21 days later (1st April) I received a Parking Notice Charge from ParkingEye (letter issued 29 March) requesting £100, for the time my car was in the car park - 4 hours 11 minutes.
    Ouch - sounds like that was a non-POFA PCN as well, a slam-dunk win for a keeper appellant who doesn't say who was driving. Sounds like you chucked that winning appeal point in the bin which makes painful reading.

    There are other appeal points but 'no keeper liability' the easiest one of all, if you get the 'golden ticket' of a non-POFA (late) PCN from PE.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Rod74
    • By Rod74 20th Apr 17, 11:18 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Rod74
    • #7
    • 20th Apr 17, 11:18 AM
    • #7
    • 20th Apr 17, 11:18 AM
    Thanks for the reply. I know this will sound naive (but I am in this matter!), but what did I do to throw my best appeal point in the bin? And is there anyway back?!!!

    Plus, from reading my initial thread - what did you see as my other appeal point?

    Have now written to the Wye Valley Visitor Centre in hope they will contact PE to cancel this. But am unsure if they have the power to do this?

    Thanks for any help & advice
    • waamo
    • By waamo 20th Apr 17, 11:26 AM
    • 1,957 Posts
    • 2,328 Thanks
    waamo
    • #8
    • 20th Apr 17, 11:26 AM
    • #8
    • 20th Apr 17, 11:26 AM
    It sounds like you have admitted being the driver. The law allows them to pursue the keeper of a vehicle if the driver is not known. They have to jump through several hoops to do this. They have failed to make at least one of those jumps.

    This means they are now, in a legal sense, only able to persue the driver. Having admitted being the driver makes their job a little easier. Had you not have done so you would have won at POPLA with ease by stating they are chasing the keeper when they should be chasing the driver and as they don't know who was driving their case falls apart.
    This space for hire.
    • Rod74
    • By Rod74 24th Apr 17, 11:20 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Rod74
    • #9
    • 24th Apr 17, 11:20 AM
    • #9
    • 24th Apr 17, 11:20 AM
    Thanks for the reply waamo. Yes, am kicking myself for rushing into that first letter without checking here first. Am still preparing a letter for POPLA - but wondering if there is now any point? Do you feel I've already blown any chance of the appeal being successful?
    • waamo
    • By waamo 24th Apr 17, 1:44 PM
    • 1,957 Posts
    • 2,328 Thanks
    waamo
    No, you stand a very good chance of winning. All that's happened is that the odds have dropped from 99% certain to about 85% so it's far from hopeless.
    This space for hire.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Apr 17, 8:45 PM
    • 49,043 Posts
    • 62,511 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Thanks for the reply waamo. Yes, am kicking myself for rushing into that first letter without checking here first. Am still preparing a letter for POPLA - but wondering if there is now any point? Do you feel I've already blown any chance of the appeal being successful?
    Originally posted by Rod74
    Of course, that's why I said:

    There are other appeal points
    ...which I hope by now you will have found in the templates in the NEWBIES thread, POPLA (and its IPC rival) is what post #3 of the sticky thread at the top is all about, points already written to piece together into a long appeal to see them off.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Rod74
    • By Rod74 25th Apr 17, 10:22 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Rod74
    Thanks again all for the advice and support! Have carefully reviewed my initial appeal letter - and despite clearly acknowledging I was there, I do not specifically say who was driving...... plus, am pleased to say I have found the parking ticket showing I left with 2 mins to spare!


    I would be extremely grateful for any feedback for the first draft of the POPLA appeal letter....... thank you in advance.......................







    I am the registered keeper and I wish to appeal a parking charge from ParkingEye Ltd.


    The charge is levied despite the driver not being identified. The date of the alleged event was 11 March 2017 and the PCN dated 29 March 2017 was received on 1 April 2017 more than 14 days later.


    A large party of friends consisting of adults and children, in a number of vehicles, including my vehicle, visited the Wye Valley Visitor Centre on the 11 March 2017 as part of birthday celebrations.


    They were not aware of a parking charge before they visited this Centre but after driving around the car park and finding suitable parking spaces they got out of the vehicles, noticed and read the parking signs and then obtained tickets from the machine for each car paying £3 for 4 hours parking. The time printed on the ticket shows that it was purchased at 13:05. A scan of the ticket is attached.


    The vehicle, of which I am the registered keeper, left the car park at 17.03.22 as shown on the ANPR from ParkingEye Ltd which is 2 minutes WITHIN the 4 hour period as purchased and stated on the ticket.


    ParkingEye Ltd claim that the vehicle was in the Car Park for 4 hours 11 minutes.

    I am appealing on the following basis



    • The Parking Charge Notice was issued more than 14 days after the alleged event therefore I am not liable for any charges incurred by whoever was the driver at the time.
    • The vehicle left within the purchased parking time of 4 hours as printed on the ticket.
    • If ParkingEye Ltd claim that the vehicle was parked for 11 minutes over the 4 hours then they have not given a reasonable “grace period” in accordance with the British Parking Association Code of Practice which requires time to be allowed on arrival to read the notices, decide whether to park, etc. AND should also allow a reasonable period at the end of parking to leave the car park which should be a A MINIMUM OF 10 minutes. This total “grace period” for arrival and leaving should obviously be more than 11 minutes to comply with the BPA Code of Practice.
    • What evidence can ParkingEye Ltd. provide that their ANPR system is accurate, reliable and has been properly maintained and calibrated?
    • Other vehicles in the same party which arrived and left at the same time did not receive Parking Charge Notices.
    • £100 is a wholly excessive amount for 11 minutes of parking in a car park that was less than half full during the time that the vehicles of the party were parked and therefore does not represent any significant loss to the operator or land owner.
    • nigelbb
    • By nigelbb 25th Apr 17, 10:36 AM
    • 1,924 Posts
    • 2,678 Thanks
    nigelbb
    Are you sure that you entered the vehicle registration number correctly? Does the PCN state that you didn't pay or that you paid for four hours & stayed four hour eleven minutes?
    • Rod74
    • By Rod74 25th Apr 17, 11:06 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Rod74
    Hi nigelbb,


    Yes, the Registration number is entered on the ticket and is correct. The PCN just states that the time the car was in the car park was 4 hours and 11 mins.
    Last edited by Rod74; 25-04-2017 at 11:20 AM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 26th Apr 17, 12:50 AM
    • 49,043 Posts
    • 62,511 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    POPLA appeals on here are much longer; it is a deliberate tactic to encourage the PPC to bail out. Like this example from earlier this month (not yet decided but a similar one):

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72342161#post72342161

    Also add in the link to the minutes of the Professional Development & Standards Board meeting from 30th July 2015 where it was formally agreed by the Board (of BPA members and stakeholders) that the minimum grace period would be changed in 13.4 of the BPA Code of Practice to read 'a minimum of eleven minutes':

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5637808

    Add that in too, make it similar to the first link but with that extra icing on the cake.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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