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  • FIRST POST
    • Ryan_W95
    • By Ryan_W95 18th Apr 17, 3:34 PM
    • 4Posts
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    Ryan_W95
    Overpaid SSP, now they want to set a payment plan to pay back the 1200... HELP!
    • #1
    • 18th Apr 17, 3:34 PM
    Overpaid SSP, now they want to set a payment plan to pay back the 1200... HELP! 18th Apr 17 at 3:34 PM
    Hello MSE,

    So as the title states, I was off work for a month (signed off by the Dr) and was told by my manager that because I was still within my probationary period I would not be eligble for SSP. Which I was fine with. Now we use an internal system to update holidays/sickness so I couldn't update it from home when off Ill. Due to this payroll was informed late (3rd party payroll) and I was overpaid SSP.

    They took, around 1000 out my wages without my knowlege until I enquired about it, was told it was sick pay. They took another 300~ from my wages last month so I called our HR, got it investigated and now they're telling me I need to pay back a further 1200 for this SSP overpayment...

    Is there anything I can do because I feel that due to the lack of communication between two parties and an internal system I'm being penialized for being signed off of work..

    Thanks in advance guys!
Page 1
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 18th Apr 17, 3:42 PM
    • 609 Posts
    • 1,268 Thanks
    IAmWales
    • #2
    • 18th Apr 17, 3:42 PM
    • #2
    • 18th Apr 17, 3:42 PM
    Do you mean OSP (occupational sick pay)? SSP is 90 a week and should be payable, even in your probationary period.

    If you're not entitled to payment (above SSP) then you'll need to pay it back. You're not being penalised, the money is not yours, and given that you knew you were not entitled, one would expect you to still have the money.

    Ask HR for a breakdown of the overpayment, then ask to make an affordable repayment plan. Make sure you act reasonably, as given your short employment failure to do so may well result in them dismissing you.
    • Ryan_W95
    • By Ryan_W95 18th Apr 17, 3:56 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Ryan_W95
    • #3
    • 18th Apr 17, 3:56 PM
    • #3
    • 18th Apr 17, 3:56 PM
    So it was SSP, my manager told me I wasn't going to be paid it due to being in probation. OSP is what I'll now be paid as I was made permanent last week.

    I was overpaid SSP and HR gave me this breakdown.

    I can confirm that the total over payment amount is 1,229.21. We have included the 269.24 deduction for OSP in our calculation. Please see below -

    22 Days absences = 1,480.76 should have been deducted

    You should have received 336.11 for SSP in place

    1,480.76 - 336.11 = 1,144.65 over paid

    You also received 353.80 on top of your salary in January which is added to the over payment.

    1,144.65 + 353.80 = 1,498.45

    You have had a deduction for OSP 269.24 so this was taken off the over payment.

    1,498.45 - 269.24 = 1,229.21


    So due to this being OSP I need to pay it back?
    Last edited by Ryan_W95; 18-04-2017 at 4:01 PM.
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 18th Apr 17, 4:04 PM
    • 609 Posts
    • 1,268 Thanks
    IAmWales
    • #4
    • 18th Apr 17, 4:04 PM
    • #4
    • 18th Apr 17, 4:04 PM
    Yes, you need to pay it back. You have always been aware that you were not entitled to it.
    • Ryan_W95
    • By Ryan_W95 18th Apr 17, 4:11 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Ryan_W95
    • #5
    • 18th Apr 17, 4:11 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Apr 17, 4:11 PM
    Ok, so I'm sorry but i'm really confused. I've looked back through my emails that HR sent me, I was overpaid SSP and according to the Sickness Policy all colleagues are entitled to SSP yet my manager told me different.

    I have been overpaid SSP and they're making a OSP Deduction..

    As per your phone call, I have investigated you sickness.

    The below dates have been recorded as sick -

    15 Nov 16 to 15 Dec 16 - 20 Days
    03 Jan 17 to 04 Jan 17 - 2 Days
    27 Jan 17 to 30 Jan 17 - 2 Days

    As your probation ended on 25 March 2017, you were only entitled to SSP for the total 21 Absences @ 17.69 per day with 3 waiting days of no pay.

    I can see that prior to March's deduction (269.24) you had 2 days deducted and 2 days SSP paid in February meaning you have been overpaid for sickness for 22 Days.

    Also in January you received 4 weeks of SSP on top of your monthly salary 353.80 which is also an over payment.

    You were over paid due to absences being recorded late on the system and missing payroll cutoff, therefore the absences were not picked up in time to make the correct deductions and correct payments of SSP made in place.

    I have set up an over payment with my colleague and they will be in touch shortly with you regarding it. The four days deducted in March will come off the total of the over payment.
    My Probation ended on 13/04/17 and this was discussed over the phone when I called them back.

    Thank you for your e-mail.

    Yes, due to late notification of sickness you have been overpaid.

    In total you have been overpaid by 22 days full salary when you should have received 3 waiting days of no pay and 19 days of statutory sick pay at 17.69 per day and overpaid 353.80 in January for SSP on top of your full salary.

    Please see calculation below -

    22 Days should have been SSP (3 waiting days no pay) -

    17500 Salary divided by 260 days in year x 22 days absence = 1480.76

    Colleague was also deducted 4 days in March - 269.24 - 1480.76 = 1211.52

    1211.52 - (19 Days of SSP) 336.11 = 875.41

    Colleague was also overpaid 4 weeks of SSP on top of monthly salary in January.

    875.41 + 353.80 = 1229.21 total over payment.

    At this time there should be no further deductions from your salary in regards to sickness (unless you are absent again).

    My colleague will be in touch with you to set up a payment plan.
    Thank you for your e-mail.

    I can confirm that the total over payment amount is 1,229.21. We have included the 269.24 deduction for OSP in our calculation. Please see below -

    22 Days absences = 1,480.76 should have been deducted

    You should have received 336.11 for SSP in place

    1,480.76 - 336.11 = 1,144.65 over paid

    You also received 353.80 on top of your salary in January which is added to the over payment.

    1,144.65 + 353.80 = 1,498.45

    You have had a deduction for OSP 269.24 so this was taken off the over payment.

    1,498.45 - 269.24 = 1,229.21

    I hope this information is helpful.
    Thank you for your e-mail.

    I can only see deductions in February and in March.

    Your total absences were 24 days - you should have received on SSP for all of these absences

    In February you were deducted two days -

    There was an OSP deduction of -740.11 + a sick payment of 605.78 = -134.33 this equals 2 days deduction and you were paid 2 days SSP in place of 35.38.

    The rest of your salary and bonuses were paid as normal for this month.

    You have a remaining 22 days absence that should have been deducted and SSP paid in place -

    In March you were deducted OSP - 269.24. This figure has been deducted from the over payment.

    Your remaining over payment is 1,229.21.

    If you believe you have had further deduction please advise and I will investigate further.
    That's all the emails I recieved off of them. Sorry for being a pain... Never really had to deal with SSP and OSP payments..
    Last edited by Ryan_W95; 18-04-2017 at 4:31 PM.
    • vacationgirl
    • By vacationgirl 18th Apr 17, 5:09 PM
    • 94 Posts
    • 147 Thanks
    vacationgirl
    • #6
    • 18th Apr 17, 5:09 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Apr 17, 5:09 PM
    Did you not think it strange when you received an extra 351 in January or think about querying it?
    Why weren't these continuous errors picked up in the payroll checking process either by the company or payroll provider?
    If they were able to process SSP payments in time before the payroll cutoff, why wasn't your occupational sick pay deducted by payroll at the same time?
    These errors appear to be more than just down to late notification of sickness but also incompetence by the payroll provider.

    Why don't you ask them to provide copies of payslips (or a spreadsheet) showing what you would have received had you been paid correctly in the first place, then you can compare these with your actual payslips which might you understand how the overpayment figures were arrived at.
    You will have to repay the money but perhaps you could negotiate the amount over a few months.
    • tea lover
    • By tea lover 18th Apr 17, 5:12 PM
    • 7,997 Posts
    • 35,683 Thanks
    tea lover
    • #7
    • 18th Apr 17, 5:12 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Apr 17, 5:12 PM
    You haven't been overpaid SSP, you've been overpaid OSP. You were entitled to SSP so they aren't claiming that back. What you need to pay back is the OSP - SSP.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 18th Apr 17, 5:15 PM
    • 3,448 Posts
    • 3,529 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #8
    • 18th Apr 17, 5:15 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Apr 17, 5:15 PM
    The OP is getting confused between Statutory Sick Pay (SSP) which is a set figure defined by Government if you fit the qualifying criteria, and Company or Occupational Sick Pay (CSP/OSP). In this instance the OP has been paid CSP/OSP when they had no entitlement to it.
    Yes, there has been an error by the company in paying it, but the OP was told by his manager, at the time he went sick, that he wouldn't be entitled to this. That indicates that there is error on both sides. In that situation I don't think it unreasonable for the OP to request to make repayment over a longer period.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 18th Apr 17, 5:18 PM
    • 3,060 Posts
    • 4,990 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #9
    • 18th Apr 17, 5:18 PM
    • #9
    • 18th Apr 17, 5:18 PM
    Hello MSE,

    So as the title states, I was off work for a month (signed off by the Dr) and was told by my manager that because I was still within my probationary period I would not be eligble for SSP. Which I was fine with. Now we use an internal system to update holidays/sickness so I couldn't update it from home when off Ill. Due to this payroll was informed late (3rd party payroll) and I was overpaid SSP.

    They took, around 1000 out my wages without my knowlege until I enquired about it, was told it was sick pay. They took another 300~ from my wages last month so I called our HR, got it investigated and now they're telling me I need to pay back a further 1200 for this SSP overpayment...

    Is there anything I can do because I feel that due to the lack of communication between two parties and an internal system I'm being penialized for being signed off of work..

    Thanks in advance guys!
    Originally posted by Ryan_W95
    No. You are being penalised for taking money that you knew you were not entitled to! Why, when you knew that you did not get full pay for time off sick, did you not return the money, alert your company, or put the overpayment to one side to repay? That is a awful large amount of an overpayment to not notice.

    You really do need to repay this and arguing about it won't change the money you owe, but it may well influence their attitude to someone who has had an awful lot of time off sick in a very short period of employment. Being made "permanent" is meaningless when you can be dismissed for almost any reason for two years. And you would still owe the money if dismissed.
    • Ryan_W95
    • By Ryan_W95 18th Apr 17, 5:28 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Ryan_W95
    Did you not think it strange when you received an extra 351 in January or think about querying it?
    Why weren't these continuous errors picked up in the payroll checking process either by the company or payroll provider?
    If they were able to process SSP payments in time before the payroll cutoff, why wasn't your occupational sick pay deducted by payroll at the same time?
    These errors appear to be more than just down to late notification of sickness but also incompetence by the payroll provider.

    Why don't you ask them to provide copies of payslips (or a spreadsheet) showing what you would have received had you been paid correctly in the first place, then you can compare these with your actual payslips which might you understand how the overpayment figures were arrived at.
    You will have to repay the money but perhaps you could negotiate the amount over a few months.
    Ok so the reason to not noticing the 351 price increase is because I work on comission on top of my wage.. So i thought it was commission.

    I'll have to ask those questions about the osp being deducted but from the emails I do believe it was because of the updated system being late, about 2 weeks after the month off. I haven't been paid incorrectly. I just they take money off of me, shows like this on my payslip. (-xxx.xx OSP Offset).

    No. You are being penalised for taking money that you knew you were not entitled to! Why, when you knew that you did not get full pay for time off sick, did you not return the money, alert your company, or put the overpayment to one side to repay? That is a awful large amount of an overpayment to not notice.

    You really do need to repay this and arguing about it won't change the money you owe, but it may well influence their attitude to someone who has had an awful lot of time off sick in a very short period of employment. Being made "permanent" is meaningless when you can be dismissed for almost any reason for two years. And you would still owe the money if dismissed.
    I thought they we're going to take it off at a later date, plus as mentioned above, I work on comission and it's uncapped and all the commission I make is paid on the following month so thought nothing of it. As soon as I had that OSP offset on my wage slip I enquired about it, told it was because off my sickness, they then took 700 off of me so in total around that 1000 mark, so after that I presumed they were taking too much off of me which is why they investigated it. I'm not saying I'm in the wrong, I said I felt like i was being penalised for a system that couldn't be updated whilst I was at home when sick.. I had to wait until I was back at work to update the system so payroll was updated.

    Thanks.
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