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  • FIRST POST
    • Haj
    • By Haj 17th Apr 17, 11:11 PM
    • 21Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Haj
    TWO UKCPM PCN's
    • #1
    • 17th Apr 17, 11:11 PM
    TWO UKCPM PCN's 17th Apr 17 at 11:11 PM
    Hi,

    Would really appreciate some advice on TWO recent PCN's i received in the same location. The Car park belongs to the serviced offices were i work and i just plainly forgot to display my permit on both occasions . As I was borrowing my father's car at the time the FORMAL DEMAND letter that just came through the post is obviously addressed to him and i'm appealing on his behalf. By the way I have already asked the office management to help but they aren't able to assist.

    Question1: Would i need to amend the template from the newbies thread at all or do i just simply send them exactly the same appeal letter for both occasions? (still waiting for the 2nd demand to come)

    Question2: Should i be asking them to provide profit/loss details to justify the charge in the appeals letter?

    Also after reading some more about IPC members on here I'm thinking if i should just pay up as it seems highly likely CPM will reject the two appeals and then refer to a DCA then possibly onto court which in itself will cause me so much grief from the old man as he would need to attend if it ends up that way. Not sure what to do here.

    Any additional advice much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by Haj; 17-04-2017 at 11:23 PM.
Page 1
    • Blibble
    • By Blibble 18th Apr 17, 7:28 AM
    • 110 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    Blibble
    • #2
    • 18th Apr 17, 7:28 AM
    • #2
    • 18th Apr 17, 7:28 AM
    Question 1: Yes. Send the IPC appeal in sticky thread as this has been crafted for that purpose, and send it for both PCNs

    Question 2: What good with profit / loss details achieve? Unless you fancy that getting a role as the PPC's on call accountant would get you off the PCN (you're welcome to try) then this is irrelevant, particular if you wish to argue that the values on the PCN are not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

    Do you live with your father? Are you able to supply your address as the forwarding address to manage the appeals, so any correspondence goes to you & not your father in order to stop him stressing out?

    Please don't just pay them, otherwise you'll be unnecessarily adding to their profit / loss details on the wrong side.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 18th Apr 17, 8:35 AM
    • 38,898 Posts
    • 77,627 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #3
    • 18th Apr 17, 8:35 AM
    • #3
    • 18th Apr 17, 8:35 AM
    As above, send the IPC template exactly as it appears, as the (day to day)keeper on the day of the alleged event. One template for each PCN.

    Debt collectors have no powers and can safely be ignored. The NEWBIES thread explains this.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 18th Apr 17, 8:44 AM
    • 3,541 Posts
    • 4,994 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #4
    • 18th Apr 17, 8:44 AM
    • #4
    • 18th Apr 17, 8:44 AM
    Does the lease on the office include parking?
    what does it say about permits?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Haj
    • By Haj 18th Apr 17, 11:31 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Haj
    • #5
    • 18th Apr 17, 11:31 AM
    • #5
    • 18th Apr 17, 11:31 AM
    Question 1: Yes. Send the IPC appeal in sticky thread as this has been crafted for that purpose, and send it for both PCNs

    Question 2: What good with profit / loss details achieve? Unless you fancy that getting a role as the PPC's on call accountant would get you off the PCN (you're welcome to try) then this is irrelevant, particular if you wish to argue that the values on the PCN are not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

    Do you live with your father? Are you able to supply your address as the forwarding address to manage the appeals, so any correspondence goes to you & not your father in order to stop him stressing out?

    Please don't just pay them, otherwise you'll be unnecessarily adding to their profit / loss details on the wrong side.
    Originally posted by Blibble
    Hi Blibble,

    Thanks for your reply. Yes i do live with him so difficult to have sent elsewhere, unless i have them sent to my office address somehow. Do you think that could work?
    • Haj
    • By Haj 18th Apr 17, 11:33 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Haj
    • #6
    • 18th Apr 17, 11:33 AM
    • #6
    • 18th Apr 17, 11:33 AM
    Does the lease on the office include parking?
    what does it say about permits?
    Originally posted by Half_way
    Hi Halfway,

    Permit is included in the lease but I will need to double check on what it says exactly re displaying permits.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Apr 17, 12:52 PM
    • 12,629 Posts
    • 19,420 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #7
    • 18th Apr 17, 12:52 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Apr 17, 12:52 PM
    Hi Halfway,

    Permit is included in the lease but I will need to double check on what it says exactly re displaying permits.
    Originally posted by Haj
    The lease is critical, but I suspect it will say precious little about permits (we haven't seen many - or even any - that have) which won't be good news for the PPC.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Haj
    • By Haj 19th Apr 17, 8:11 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Haj
    • #8
    • 19th Apr 17, 8:11 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Apr 17, 8:11 PM
    Hi guys,

    I'm pretty certain the answer would be a no here but in the interest of keeping my father out of this whole situation would this appeal work if i fill out the TRANSFER OF LIABILITY section of the Formal Demand letter with my details (as in user of the car at the time). I could then start the appeal under my name instead of his? Possible?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Apr 17, 9:23 PM
    • 45,809 Posts
    • 58,776 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 19th Apr 17, 9:23 PM
    • #9
    • 19th Apr 17, 9:23 PM
    Yes it is possible, if a person (keeper) is so vulnerable that they can't cope with it then yes.

    Or maybe appeal using your address but his name as keeper and write in HIS NAME, telling UKCPM this is the address for service and not to use the old address - at least then you would see every letter, not him. Most cases never go to court so it might then just be a matter of ignoring letters demanding money.

    Could appeal in his name with your address, saying that he was not the driver but the driver has every right to park at that location as an employee, given the terms under which the company lease the site, they have primacy of contract and rights of way. I am assuming they do, most modern leases including a car park would extend to rights of way and easements over time (before UKCPM rocked up - and why the heck did they, who needs them?!).

    However, it is very possible that UKCPM might still press ahead as it's 2 x 100 and he would have to be at the hearing unless you replied (as him) in time to a Gladstones LBC, naming the driver and giving your address as a last resort (before proceedings).

    Can be a good bet to wait and only do this late because then:

    - the named driver, if pursued, can say they were never sent any letters about it so have not had a fair chance to respond

    - the keeper, if wrongly still pursued, has a VERY good defence that they have already discharged liability before proceedings, by naming the driver & giving an address for service (end of liability for Dad, but if the court claim arrived in his name he'd still have to be the defendant).

    Up to you.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Haj
    • By Haj 19th Apr 17, 11:12 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Haj
    Yes it is possible, if a person (keeper) is so vulnerable that they can't cope with it then yes.

    Or maybe appeal using your address but his name as keeper and write in HIS NAME, telling UKCPM this is the address for service and not to use the old address - at least then you would see every letter, not him. Most cases never go to court so it might then just be a matter of ignoring letters demanding money.

    Could appeal in his name with your address, saying that he was not the driver but the driver has every right to park at that location as an employee, given the terms under which the company lease the site, they have primacy of contract and rights of way. I am assuming they do, most modern leases including a car park would extend to rights of way and easements over time (before UKCPM rocked up - and why the heck did they, who needs them?!).

    However, it is very possible that UKCPM might still press ahead as it's 2 x 100 and he would have to be at the hearing unless you replied (as him) in time to a Gladstones LBC, naming the driver and giving your address as a last resort (before proceedings).

    Can be a good bet to wait and only do this late because then:

    - the named driver, if pursued, can say they were never sent any letters about it so have not had a fair chance to respond

    - the keeper, if wrongly still pursued, has a VERY good defence that they have already discharged liability before proceedings, by naming the driver & giving an address for service (end of liability for Dad, but if the court claim arrived in his name he'd still have to be the defendant).

    Up to you.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad


    Its a tough call. Part of me wants to stick it out and the other just wants to get rid and save myself the oncoming grief. Either choice leads to a headache anyway, going to sleep on it.

    Thanks for this, really appreciate it.
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