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    • kwackerman
    • By kwackerman 16th Apr 17, 3:03 PM
    • 46Posts
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    kwackerman
    Included in the purchase price or not?
    • #1
    • 16th Apr 17, 3:03 PM
    Included in the purchase price or not? 16th Apr 17 at 3:03 PM
    Hi All,

    We are in the process of buying a house and have received the property fixtures and fixings pack from our solicitor.

    The online details and the printed handout describing the property state that the kitchen has a standalone gas cooker and a slimline dishwasher plus space for other kitchen appliances.

    I took this to mean that the cooker and dishwasher were included in the purchase price. Also the particulars state that in bedroom 1 there are fitted wardrobes.

    Yet according to the pack from the vendor these items are not included but can be if we wish to negotiate. We are selling our house and no appliances are included but the details online state 'space for' etc.

    Our experience has always been if the details mention there is for example a gas cooker rather than space for a gas cooker then it is included in the sale.

    Are there any hard and fast rules?

    Andy
Page 1
    • nickcc
    • By nickcc 16th Apr 17, 3:07 PM
    • 1,714 Posts
    • 750 Thanks
    nickcc
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 17, 3:07 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 17, 3:07 PM
    Check the get out clauses on the estate agents house details. I would only believe what's in the vendors pack not what the advertising literature states.
    • ACG
    • By ACG 16th Apr 17, 3:13 PM
    • 15,759 Posts
    • 8,058 Thanks
    ACG
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 17, 3:13 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 17, 3:13 PM
    Go off the paperwork that shows exactly what is included. Anything else is worthless.

    You could argue that where it says the kitchen has a gas cooker, they are correct as it currently does.

    If it helps, when I went to view the house I am buying the vendor said the cooker and dishwasger are being taken but we can buy them. I wasnt really bothered as I plan on replacing the kitchen within 6 months anyway so I never made an offer and in the same paperowkr you have, it states both are remaining.

    I would be surprised if they are going to take fitted wardorbes. To be honest, I would argue that you want them to be included in the purchase price as it would cost you to put it right, or to reduce the purchase price by say £500 which would be enough for you to replace the carpet/wallpaper?

    Gas cooker, again - are they going to pay someone to come in and disconnect it? Is it an expensive cooker?

    Alternatively, you could call their bluff.
    I am a Mortgage Adviser
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 16th Apr 17, 3:27 PM
    • 1,835 Posts
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    unforeseen
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 17, 3:27 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 17, 3:27 PM
    Go off the paperwork that shows exactly what is included. Anything else is worthless.

    You could argue that where it says the kitchen has a gas cooker, they are correct as it currently does.

    If it helps, when I went to view the house I am buying the vendor said the cooker and dishwasger are being taken but we can buy them. I wasnt really bothered as I plan on replacing the kitchen within 6 months anyway so I never made an offer and in the same paperowkr you have, it states both are remaining.

    I would be surprised if they are going to take fitted wardorbes. To be honest, I would argue that you want them to be included in the purchase price as it would cost you to put it right, or to reduce the purchase price by say £500 which would be enough for you to replace the carpet/wallpaper?

    Gas cooker, again - are they going to pay someone to come in and disconnect it? Is it an expensive cooker?

    Alternatively, you could call their bluff.
    Originally posted by ACG
    if it is a bayonet connection then it is not classed as gas work so the householder is free to do it themselves.

    if it is being connected/disconnected as part of the work done by a contractor then they must be qualified to certify it as leak free.

    Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998
    • kwackerman
    • By kwackerman 16th Apr 17, 3:35 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    kwackerman
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 17, 3:35 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 17, 3:35 PM
    Check the get out clauses on the estate agents house details. I would only believe what's in the vendors pack not what the advertising literature states.
    Originally posted by nickcc
    I am sure you are correct but in a world where virtually everything we do buy or say is highly regulated would it really be too much to ask for some kind of common standard to be adhered to.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 16th Apr 17, 4:33 PM
    • 2,998 Posts
    • 4,163 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 17, 4:33 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 17, 4:33 PM
    I think you need to query the removal of the fitted wardrobes. Removing fitted wardrobes is like removing a fitted kitchen. If they took the fitted kitchen out they would need to compensate you for it. You should get compensation for them taking out fitted wardrobes.

    Do you want to pay for a second hand gas cooker and a second hand slimline dishwasher?
    • cjdavies
    • By cjdavies 16th Apr 17, 6:26 PM
    • 2,786 Posts
    • 2,790 Thanks
    cjdavies
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 17, 6:26 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 17, 6:26 PM
    Maybe they were advertising the gas cooker as a connection is ready for it.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 16th Apr 17, 6:36 PM
    • 41,880 Posts
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    G_M
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 17, 6:36 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 17, 6:36 PM
    Ignore the marketing details.

    Negotiate items on the F&F form. Just say you expect them to be included. I assume the form came via your solicitor (or theirs if you are doing the conveyancing yourself), so go back via that route.

    If that fails, tell the EA (if there is one) that unless the seller changes their mind the deal is off. EAs hate deals that fall through so will put pressure on the seller.
    • nickcc
    • By nickcc 16th Apr 17, 6:49 PM
    • 1,714 Posts
    • 750 Thanks
    nickcc
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 17, 6:49 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 17, 6:49 PM
    I am sure you are correct but in a world where virtually everything we do buy or say is highly regulated would it really be too much to ask for some kind of common standard to be adhered to.
    Originally posted by kwackerman
    Of course in an ideal world we wouldn't have a problem. After moving house at least 15 times you tend to expect that agents don't really care about you just how much they can screw out of you in commission. Hopefully a decent honest estate agent may reply to this thread, doubtful I think.
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 18th Apr 17, 11:35 AM
    • 953 Posts
    • 648 Thanks
    saajan_12
    There are NO hard and fast rules. The F&F form is what matters and will form the basis of the contract, unless negotiated or modified before exchange. The advertising may have been the vendors being cheeky or just a mistake. Either way, they don’t hold any weight.

    Your options now are to
    a) Take the property at the current price with no dishwasher / hob / wardrobes (ensure the vendors make good any damage from removals). IF the vendors are bluffing, they MAY choose to leave the items anyway if their removal cost/effort outweighs the value – this is always a risk though
    b) Negotiate an amount over the current purchase price to leave the items you would like; get the vendors to amend the F&F form and increase the purchase price.
    - you may be able to leave the contract unchanged and pay the vendor separately for these items – not sure if they count as fixtures and if this causes stamp duty issues
    c) Go back to the vendor saying your offer was based on the assumption these things would be included as indicated by the marketing; if not included, you would need to lower the offer by the value – or they could include the items and keep the original offer
    • shortcrust
    • By shortcrust 18th Apr 17, 11:52 AM
    • 1,418 Posts
    • 1,865 Thanks
    shortcrust
    My line would be:

    'I'm planning to replace everything with new asap but will keep the existing items for a token payment of £100 as they'll be useful for a week or two. If they want more than that they're welcome to remove them.'
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 18th Apr 17, 1:04 PM
    • 6,068 Posts
    • 5,818 Thanks
    davidmcn
    I would suggest starting with a negotiating position that you'll take their knackered old appliances off their hands for £0, and that will save them the bother of disconnecting and removing them.
    • Hoploz
    • By Hoploz 18th Apr 17, 1:29 PM
    • 3,529 Posts
    • 3,120 Thanks
    Hoploz
    Sometimes a seller will change their plans. When the house goes on the market they plan to take things, but when they find their next house they are being left so won't need them ... Or the other way around. So the details the estate agent originally produced may end up incorrect.

    It would be best practice to go back to the solicitor to contact the seller's solicitor to ask them for any further detail, however this may take weeks waiting for letters, so in reality the quickest way to resolve these is to get the EA on it, as they will just call the seller and find out their 'expectations' so to speak, and report back to you. It could be they didn't mean what they put on the form ... It could be they've made a mistake ... It could be they want £x per item. Then once you can agree, this info gets passed to solicitors who will write it in to the contract.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 18th Apr 17, 1:43 PM
    • 7,562 Posts
    • 8,166 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    I'd be very concerned about the built in wardrobes. Everything else is an easy fix, if not that cheap, but taking the wardrobe doors and fittings out could cause damage and also could be very expensive to replace if they arent off-the-shelf (no pun intended) sizes.

    I would be very firm about those being left as is unless you are planning to replace immediately.
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