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  • FIRST POST
    • verynicelady
    • By verynicelady 11th Apr 17, 5:23 PM
    • 29Posts
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    verynicelady
    Euro car park parking charge notice
    • #1
    • 11th Apr 17, 5:23 PM
    Euro car park parking charge notice 11th Apr 17 at 5:23 PM
    Hi, could you please give me more information regarding a parking charge I received from ECP. I found myself lost so pulled off a dual carriageway onto what I now know to be private parking land owned by ECP.
    I was asking people if they knew where I was and for a postcode so I could download a satnav app on my phone. From the postal parking charge, I found out I was there for 16 minutes in total. Because I was lost I didn't even realise I had pulled onto a carpark I just wanted to be safe and off the carriageway.
    Should I pay the £60 fine to ECP even tho I didn't know I was on their land???? Please help...
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Apr 17, 5:49 PM
    • 49,944 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 11th Apr 17, 5:49 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Apr 17, 5:49 PM
    Did you miss 'NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST' back on page one?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 11th Apr 17, 6:02 PM
    • 3,772 Posts
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    Half_way
    • #3
    • 11th Apr 17, 6:02 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Apr 17, 6:02 PM
    private parking land owned by ECP.
    highly unlikely to be owned by ECP
    The newbies thread is here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822 it may seem big and intimidating but in there is all you need to know, take a look and come back with your thoughts.

    One bit of advice, dont give any hints as to who was driving, no he/I/she and so on, refer to yourelf as the vehicles registered keeper, adn the parking incident as "the vehicle"

    I'm guessig that this is/was a so called ANPR capture where a camera on a stick reads the vehicles number plate, and then further down the line you get a letter in the post with a picture of the vehicle?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • verynicelady
    • By verynicelady 11th Apr 17, 7:48 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    verynicelady
    • #4
    • 11th Apr 17, 7:48 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Apr 17, 7:48 PM
    Thank you for you help Half-way, it was as you said "camera!!! so-called entry and exit pictures. Coupon-mad the page you refer to has been read just unsure of exactly what it means. It says DON'T pay but Don't IGNORE either. If contacted isn't the vehicles registered keeper accepting liability. Also, the bit with the double dip is confusing???? pictures show an entry time and exit time "is this what it's referring to??? Sorry for sounding dumb, just confused..
    Last edited by verynicelady; 11-04-2017 at 7:51 PM. Reason: spelling
    • verynicelady
    • By verynicelady 11th Apr 17, 9:37 PM
    • 29 Posts
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    verynicelady
    • #5
    • 11th Apr 17, 9:37 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Apr 17, 9:37 PM
    Coupon-mad the page you refer to has been read just unsure of exactly what it all means. It says DON'T pay but don't IGNORE either. If contacted isn't the vehicles registered keeper accepting liability. Also, the bit with the double dip is confusing???? pictures show an entry time and exit time "is this what it's referring to??? Sorry for sounding dumb, just confused..
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Apr 17, 11:19 PM
    • 49,944 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 11th Apr 17, 11:19 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Apr 17, 11:19 PM
    If contacted isn't the vehicles registered keeper accepting liability.
    No. The template appeal is there to make this easy; it is usually very easy to beat ECP.

    Yours wasn't a double visit so that part isn't relevant to you.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 11th Apr 17, 11:33 PM
    • 3,772 Posts
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    Half_way
    • #7
    • 11th Apr 17, 11:33 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Apr 17, 11:33 PM
    double dip: two separate visits recorded as one due to known flaws in anpr cameras
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • verynicelady
    • By verynicelady 12th Apr 17, 12:05 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    verynicelady
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 17, 12:05 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 17, 12:05 PM
    Thanks for your reply, should the said owner then contact the ECP explaining the situation, as the newbies page says DONT IGNORE???? and if told the fine has to be paid then go to appeals notice????
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Apr 17, 8:29 PM
    • 49,944 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 17, 8:29 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 17, 8:29 PM
    Really not sure why you find this so hard, and please cut out the question marks which are annoying, to say the least. No-one is telling you to ignore it and the NEWBIES thread says a lot more than 'don't ignore it'. The thread TELLS you what to do...

    Please clarify what help you need after reading the sticky, which gives you a template appeal and how to win at POPLA, with templates in post #3 of the same thread. We don't have time to (nor do we need to) repeat what's already advised in the NEWBIES thread. The appeal (and POPLA appeal) templates are there, what more are you looking for?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • verynicelady
    • By verynicelady 12th Apr 17, 11:03 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    verynicelady
    I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the tool box, but no need to be rude. I find trying to find resolve looking in the newbies thread mind boggling. It's easy for you as you're the writer of the thread to understand, but when you've never ever had a parking ticket/notice and you need help coming onto one of these sites I thought would have given me the answers but it's confusing I've a HEADACHE.....
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Apr 17, 11:13 PM
    • 49,944 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    We simply cannot field queries piecemeal - wish we could, but we do this for free and we can't. That's why I wrote the FAQS threads in 2013 and keep it up to date all this time. Because I want people to help themselves and to beat the scammers.

    That sticky thread helps hundreds of people every week/month. Almost all new posters come here in a panic with their first ever private PCN, no-one is any different from you - all newbies, all scared - but that's the thread you need.

    It does give you the answers, I promise you.

    I cannot understand what is so hard about copying a template appeal I've written for you. Hence the frustration...
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 12th Apr 17, 11:46 PM
    • 3,772 Posts
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    Half_way
    Just one last quick thing tonight - replies on here can at times be blunt and to the point, so much so they may seem rude. there is a huge workload on here and we are all volunteers giving up our time trying to make sure that people do not fall victims to the Preadatory Parking Companys
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • verynicelady
    • By verynicelady 12th Apr 17, 11:59 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    verynicelady
    The other headache I have is, said vehicle didn't enter the carpark as such as was lost and didn't even know the land was ECP's but the template which has been advised to use mentions "very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers. This isn't really directed at this situation so wasn't sure if I should use.....
    • verynicelady
    • By verynicelady 13th Apr 17, 12:04 AM
    • 29 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    verynicelady
    I would like to thank you both so much for your replies. I am a newbie and a very worrying/scared person. I'll keep you posted as to my outcome if I ever get one
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Apr 17, 12:17 AM
    • 49,944 Posts
    • 63,353 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The other headache I have is, said vehicle didn't enter the carpark as such as was lost and didn't even know the land was ECP's but the template which has been advised to use mentions "very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers. This isn't really directed at this situation so wasn't sure if I should use.....
    Originally posted by verynicelady
    OK, so you could amend the template and say instead:

    The driver was lost and did not in fact even enter the car park at all, merely turned round and left without entering into any contract nor seeing any signs at all. This falls within a reasonable grace period and it seems that the 'in' and 'out' cameras are not synchronised because the car was not there for sixteen minutes, in fact. So the evidence is flawed and no contract existed as this was not a 'parking event' at all.

    Just don't say 'I' and don't choose 'driver' on ECP's appeal page. ONLY 'registered keeper' in the same name as on the letter.

    I would like to thank you both so much for your replies. I am a newbie and a very worrying/scared person. I'll keep you posted as to my outcome if I ever get one
    Great - that's better. I wasn't intending to be rude, just pushing you to get the appeal job done properly! I am also a very nice lady (people tell me) and the only difference is I've been doing this a long time and I am not a natural worrier or pessimist, always glass half full. Relax!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 13-04-2017 at 12:20 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • verynicelady
    • By verynicelady 13th Apr 17, 10:00 AM
    • 29 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    verynicelady
    Thank you so so very much for your time and effort you're an angel without wings, I will amend the template & definitely keep you posted, and yes I am a worrier alway's have been.. xxx Thanks again xxx
    • verynicelady
    • By verynicelady 18th May 17, 4:01 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    verynicelady
    Hi Coupon-mad
    just a quick update on the parking charge I received which we have previously discussed The outcome is they have decided to REJECT my appeal and say I now need to pay the £60 fine as they say I breached terms and conditions: no valid pay and display was purchased. Looks like I'm gonna have to pay the fine even tho I wasn't using the car park FEELING ANGERED
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 18th May 17, 5:27 PM
    • 40,303 Posts
    • 80,497 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Hi Coupon-mad
    just a quick update on the parking charge I received which we have previously discussed The outcome is they have decided to REJECT my appeal and say I now need to pay the £60 fine as they say I breached terms and conditions: no valid pay and display was purchased. Looks like I'm gonna have to pay the fine even tho I wasn't using the car park FEELING ANGERED
    Originally posted by verynicelady
    It is not a fine.

    You do not have to pay a penny.

    Take a deep breath and plot your revenge. You have several weeks to do this.

    Draft your PoPLA appeal using as many of the template appeal points as you can from post 3 of the NEWBIES. These should at least include, not the landowner, no standing to bring charges in their own name, lack of grace period.
    Keeper not liable is also highly likely as most parking scammers are incapable of complying with the POFA 2012 and thus are unable to transfer liability to the keeper.

    Please tell us the date of the alleged event and the date the keeper received the NTK.

    You can upload an image of the (redacted) PCN/NTK to a web hosting site such as tinypic or photobucket, then post the URL here, but change http to hxxp. Someone here will then change it back to a live link.
    We can then check it against the very strict requirements of the POFA 2012 to see if they have henned up.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • verynicelady
    • By verynicelady 18th May 17, 6:10 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    verynicelady
    Thank you so very much for the help I will have a go and keep you posted
    • verynicelady
    • By verynicelady 18th May 17, 7:12 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    verynicelady
    Could I just ask, is it the original NTK you want or the latest received, thanks
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