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    • MSE Sam M
    • By MSE Sam M 11th Apr 17, 12:16 PM
    • 222Posts
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    MSE Sam M
    MSE Poll: Should parents be allowed to take kids out of school for a holiday?
    • #1
    • 11th Apr 17, 12:16 PM
    MSE Poll: Should parents be allowed to take kids out of school for a holiday? 11th Apr 17 at 12:16 PM
    Poll started 11 April 2017

    Should parents be allowed to take kids out of school for a holiday?

    The Supreme Court has finally ruled that parents canít take their children on term-time holidays without risking being fined.

    The case concerned a father whoíd refused to pay a fine after he'd taken his six-year-old daughter out of school for a holiday.

    But what do you think? Should parents be allowed to take their kids on holiday during term time? Which of these is CLOSEST to your view?


    Did you vote? Are you surprised at the results so far? Have your say below. To see the results from last time, click here.

    If you havenít already, join the forum to reply. If you arenít sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.

    Thanks!


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Page 1
    • RaspberryFool
    • By RaspberryFool 12th Apr 17, 8:17 AM
    • 55 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    RaspberryFool
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 17, 8:17 AM
    High court decision
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 17, 8:17 AM
    So the high court has ruled that it is not legal to take children out of school during term time. How about they spend their time ruling why it is legal for holiday providers to ramp up their prices, often by thousands of pounds per week, during school holidays?
    RaspberryFool
    Men are from Mars, Women are from ... Cadburys!
    • Stevie Palimo
    • By Stevie Palimo 12th Apr 17, 8:21 AM
    • 3,101 Posts
    • 4,412 Thanks
    Stevie Palimo
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 17, 8:21 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 17, 8:21 AM
    So the high court has ruled that it is not legal to take children out of school during term time. How about they spend their time ruling why it is legal for holiday providers to ramp up their prices, often by thousands of pounds per week, during school holidays?
    Originally posted by RaspberryFool
    It is not to do with being legal regarding the inflated costs being charged throughout School holidays and this is purely a business motive with a view of gaining profits, The Courts cannot intervene on the prices being charged here and if people are really upset and or finding it difficult then boycott the major players as you can always book things direct and have some savings,
    • sng165
    • By sng165 12th Apr 17, 10:08 AM
    • 272 Posts
    • 210 Thanks
    sng165
    • #4
    • 12th Apr 17, 10:08 AM
    • #4
    • 12th Apr 17, 10:08 AM
    why not give children(and teachers) less, but a fixed number of, days per year to use throughout the year.
    Used sensibly :
    This would bring them in line with most workforces.
    It would allow parents & children flexibility.
    It would stop the banking up of prices by travel companies.
    • Nalwoir
    • By Nalwoir 12th Apr 17, 10:12 AM
    • 7 Posts
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    Nalwoir
    • #5
    • 12th Apr 17, 10:12 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Apr 17, 10:12 AM
    Agree with Stevie, the costs being put up is pure supply and demand - demand for holidays go up when more people want to go on holiday. Or you could view it as the holiday prices are the norm, and when less demand occurs (term time) prices drop to entice people to go away. Can't really blame the business, that's capitalism!

    Coming from the perspective of a school teacher (well, ex-school teacher), holidays are very disruptive. You have a class of 30 students. They all elect to go away for 2 weeks during term time. That's 60 weeks of schooling you need to catch students up on individually. That is a lot of extra work for an already overworked individual.

    What would you say if your children's school turned around and said " sorry, no school for a fortnight, your child's teacher has gone on holiday for 2 weeks". Would you think that is acceptable? Teachers have families and want cheap holidays too! I know a school would find cover, but it would be an inconvenience if they go away for two weeks right?

    The best way around this imo is for each individual school to arrange 2 weeks per year off, during 'term time' where parents can take their children on holiday, and get cheaper tickets. This way companies cannot account for it (they wont know when students are off school during this period) and teachers can account for the missed time (all students can pick up where they left off).
    • H4858
    • By H4858 12th Apr 17, 10:20 AM
    • 1 Posts
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    H4858
    • #6
    • 12th Apr 17, 10:20 AM
    • #6
    • 12th Apr 17, 10:20 AM
    Interesting that the government says that Head's salaries (sometimes into 6 figures) is not its business but for Governors to deal with, yet those same Heads apparently aren't competent to decide whether it's acceptable for an individual child to have time away with their family!

    And I thought this government was committed to removing red tape (and, in this case, the bureaucrats who have to oversee this ridiculous national imposition!)!
    • iainmcr
    • By iainmcr 12th Apr 17, 12:11 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    iainmcr
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 17, 12:11 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 17, 12:11 PM
    I'm a teacher although in Scotland so the court ruling doesn't apply.


    I can actually empathise with the parents, especially those who have jobs, like I did in the past, where I might be told my summer holidays are the first 2 weeks in June, and I would have no alternative. However when a child in your class is off, especially on say a week or two weeks holiday, when they return they actually expect their teacher to stop teaching the rest of the class and get them caught up. Take this a stage further and in a class of say 30 it's feasible that there could be many who are all at different stages just because of holiday, illness or many other factors, this makes it very difficult to plan meaningful lessons.


    We actually have parents who complain about the length of school holidays (but that's usually as teachers are seen as cheap child care) but then take their kids out on holiday the week the schools return!
    • sheeps68
    • By sheeps68 12th Apr 17, 12:59 PM
    • 637 Posts
    • 507 Thanks
    sheeps68
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 17, 12:59 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 17, 12:59 PM
    Can I suggest it's not always a case of holiday providers putting up prices in school holidays but reducing it when demand is low to try and recoup some losses.
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 12th Apr 17, 1:07 PM
    • 4,183 Posts
    • 6,438 Thanks
    Gavin83
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 17, 1:07 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 17, 1:07 PM
    The option I want isn't on the poll: They should be allowed to take their children out but should be expected to pay a 'fine'. Basically I think the current system is sufficent.
    • wendy4557
    • By wendy4557 12th Apr 17, 1:57 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    wendy4557
    I am a teacher in a different authority to my children and every single one of the school holidays (Feb, Easter, May and October) except the summer break is at a different time. We do not want to go away during the summer break for a number of reasons. My husband can not get time off then, my daughter has an illness which means that she can not experience extreme heat and it is more expensive and crowded at that time.
    • AddictedToTheLeaf
    • By AddictedToTheLeaf 12th Apr 17, 2:03 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    AddictedToTheLeaf
    First Post .....
    ex School Governor

    1. We are all sympathetic to parents who are forced to pay more, and put up with a more crowded holiday experience, when holidaying during school breaks.

    2. It is disruptive when a child is taken out of school for a period of time. The whole class can be affected as they play catchup, and having children missing ad-hoc is the most disruptive.

    I have always favored schools assigning 'alternative holiday' weeks for parents to take kids away in, outside the normal school holidays. That way parents have the possibility to remove kids, and there is just one general disruption. It can also allow the opportunity for the school to do something different with the remaining kids during that period - school trips I think they were once called :-)
    • jonmoneybags
    • By jonmoneybags 12th Apr 17, 2:05 PM
    • 277 Posts
    • 218 Thanks
    jonmoneybags
    Really makes no difference, because the combined price of a non-school holiday package deal plus fine is cheaper than the school-holiday package deal. Makes no sense still to not take children out of school for days per year.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 12th Apr 17, 2:06 PM
    • 12,173 Posts
    • 16,322 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    why not give children(and teachers) less, but a fixed number of, days per year to use throughout the year.
    Used sensibly :
    This would bring them in line with most workforces.
    It would allow parents & children flexibility.
    It would stop the banking up of prices by travel companies.
    Originally posted by sng165
    You haven't really thought that through have you?
    Advice; it rhymes with mice. Advise; it rhymes with wise.
    • silvasands
    • By silvasands 12th Apr 17, 5:48 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    silvasands
    Travel is the best educator
    I am in contact with numerous of my old college friends, all of whom are teachers/ex teachers. We discussed this topic and were unanimous that children would actually benefit from holidays of around a week `s duration, with their parents, more so than the week spent in school.
    I still teach and I used to work for The Youth Service. I undertook a survey of what teenagers wanted. The consensus was that what they actually valued was TIME spent with their parents...from a game of footie in the park with dad to a family holiday.
    Parents who are working, often bung their offspring a tenner. The kids liked this but still, TIME won .
    Parents are often stressed, what could be better than quality family time where the whole family are on holiday?
    The judges aren`t living in the real world. I teach at a secure unit for young offenders and welfare children. Parents need to spend as much time with their kids as possible. If the family can afford a holiday...take the kids away. One week of grace should be no problem .As old teachers we reckon young teachers are probably too frightened of their standing as teachers to actually stand up and say what they really think. We oldies are considering a petition if stupidity persists.Holidays...great things for families!
    Also...sporting trips/visits and school trips abroad...where do they stand? We regard them as being educational .
    Last edited by silvasands; 12-04-2017 at 5:55 PM.
    • Angelfeathers
    • By Angelfeathers 13th Apr 17, 9:19 AM
    • 364 Posts
    • 1,346 Thanks
    Angelfeathers
    I think two weeks out of school is way too much, but I do think one week should be fine, at the school's discretion - especially at the end of the summer term when primary schools, at least, seem to do very little actual teaching. Or through most of year 6, actually, when there was equally little teaching since all the time was spent on practice SATs tests, repeating the same things over and over again.

    I also think the idea of each school having a week (not two) each for pupils to go on holiday is a great idea - as long as they would co-ordinate with other schools in the area so siblings/parents who are teachers would have the same week!
    I'm broke, not poor. Poor sounds permanent, broke can be fixed. (Thoroughly Modern Millie)
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    • suroben
    • By suroben 13th Apr 17, 6:44 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    suroben
    Why do people not think before making stupid comments? Why do people still think holiday prices are inflated in school holidays just for companies to profit instead of considering supply and demand? Why do they assume that only the UK school holidays count? How do people think it is possible for every parent to take their holiday during school holidays? What about the people who work in the holiday industry, should they never ever take their children on holiday?

    Small companies have to spread holidays over the whole year, not just school holidays. When I was a child factory fortnight meant the country virtually shut down for the last week in July, first week in August but that would never happen now. My children would only have had a holiday about twice because my husband worked with a group of fathers but only one could be on holiday at a time. We used common sense and didn't take our children away at or near to exam time, why can't parents do the same now without the nanny state interfering?
    • Tigsteroonie
    • By Tigsteroonie 13th Apr 17, 6:48 PM
    • 22,407 Posts
    • 55,850 Thanks
    Tigsteroonie
    We used common sense and didn't take our children away at or near to exam time, why can't parents do the same now without the nanny state interfering?
    Originally posted by suroben
    Because the government now has to legislate for the lowest common denominator of intelligence, i.e. those parents who don't realise that taking your child out for a holiday during exam season might just affect their exam results ...

    To MSE I say - not another thread, not another debate on this. We've had active threads on this topic in both DT and Marriage/Families. We cannot reach agreement on the forum, did we really need another platform for those with strong opinions to argue? It's a non-topic, the courts have made judgement.
    Going to become Mrs Marleyboy for real

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    • fabforty
    • By fabforty 15th Apr 17, 12:26 PM
    • 706 Posts
    • 2,959 Thanks
    fabforty
    My sons school (year 1) does not fine parents for term time holidays, but they did issue a notice advising parents that teachers would no longer be doing 'catch-up' with children once they returned.
    Apparently teachers were often required to sit with children after school or in break times to go through work that they had missed, or devote one-to-one class time instead of teaching the whole class, or spend time preparing work in advance for the children to take with them. If work has already been prepared, they are welcome to take it with them but ultimately it is the parents responsibility to ensure that their child catches up (or not as the case may be).

    If they are helping other children (e.g. if a child has been ill), they are welcome to join in, but apart from that, it's the parents responsibility. It hasn't gone down well with some parents, but most do support it.
    • drmouse
    • By drmouse 15th Apr 17, 6:21 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    drmouse
    The option I would like us not on the poll: basically, I think there should be flexibility.

    Family events (weddings, funerals etc) should be automatically allowed in almost all circumstances with evidence. Primary school should be very flexible unless a child is falling a long way behind. Secondary should be treated on a case by case basis: if a child is doing well, has good attendance and behaviour, and the holiday doesn't interfere with important events, allow them. Possibly make the child take homework with them, and fine the parent if it is not completed to a satisfactory standard upon return.

    If the child is lagging behind, has lots of absences, is not well behaved, or has important exams coming up, don't allow it. They can't afford the time off and need to be in school.
    • 9411john
    • By 9411john 19th Apr 17, 6:41 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    9411john
    Equal playing field
    If these so called 'experts' say it is damaging to take children out of school, why is it not damaging when teachers go on strike or take one of the seemingly ever increasing 'inset' days. Why not an even playing field and make it illegal for teachers to go on strike? After all, these also penalised parents who have to either take of day off work or find someone to care for offspring. As for 'Inset' days; what is all that about. For years we never had them, had better teachers and a far better education system!
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