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  • FIRST POST
    • Roshi
    • By Roshi 10th Apr 17, 1:36 PM
    • 57Posts
    • 16Thanks
    Roshi
    IAS Appeal dismissal
    • #1
    • 10th Apr 17, 1:36 PM
    IAS Appeal dismissal 10th Apr 17 at 1:36 PM
    Hi


    I recently appealed a parking notice from UK CPM ltd via the IAS
    see below :


    MY ORIGINAL APPEAL :
    as well as the residents park our cars here regularly, my vehicle has been parked here weekly for the past 2 yrs and I have never received a parking invoice. It is causing no damage or obstruction to other cars as you can see from the photo I have uploaded there is a car access the road at ease. The signage that the CPM have on display is illegal and therefore not valid. they have the BPA symbol for accredited operator on and they are not accredited operators they are members only. I have photos uploaded also and I have checked with the BPA. The " contract is therefore not valid. Not to mention the height of the signage makes it un readable.




    CPM RESPONDED:
    The operator reported that...

    The appellant was the keeper.
    The operator is seeking keeper liability in accordance with PoFA..
    The Notice to Keeper (Non-ANPR) was sent on 31/01/2017.
    A manual ticket was placed on the vehicle.
    The ticket was issued on 28/12/2016.
    The charge is based in Contract.


    The operator made the following comments...

    The appellant has parked on an access road/roadway. The appellant has parked within clear view of our sign. Signage clearly states "NO PARKING ON ACCESS ROADS & NO PARKING OUTSIDE OF A DESIGNATED AREA/PARKING BAY". By the appellant parking at the restricted area, they have contractually agreed to pay the parking charge notice.

    Markings on roadways such as yellow lines are not applicable within private land. All signage clearly states the terms and conditions of parking and therefore parking restrictions were clearly breached and a parking charge notice was subsequently issued.

    UK CPM no longer uses the “Approved member” BPA logo but as we are still a corporate member of BPA we are still authorised to use the standard BPA logo on our literature. Currently we are working towards removing the logo from all of our signs, as you can appreciate we have thousands of sites throughout the UK therefore we were given time to ensure they were all removed.


    MY RESPONSE :


    The place of which the vehicle was parked is not causing damage or obstructing through roads and it is not clear that you are unable to park there. Having parked there regularly for over two years without a parking notice. Not consistence in handing out notices. The sign on site clearly still states registered operator of BPA of which they are not. The BPA have confirmed this sigh is not legitimate while displaying the approved operator badge unless the company are a approved operator. Therefore making the " contract" not valid. I appreciate they have many sites but this is not down to me to mange. The sign has stated that logo since the day the parking notice was received plenty of time to remove signage. Either way the sign is not legal making the contract invalid.




    INDEPENDENT ADJUDICATOR RESPONSE


    The Operator has provided evidence of the signs at the site, which make it clear any driver parking on the roadway may be issued with the parking charge notice. The Operator has also provided photographic evidence of the Appellant’s vehicle parked on the land managed by the Operator, in close proximity to a sign advertising the terms, and on the roadway. Therefore, I am satisfied there is a prima facie case the charge is lawful.

    The Appellant argues they have parked at this location for two years without any issues and caused no obstruction. I am unable to consider previous parking behaviour as this is irrelevant to the question of whether the parking charge notice was lawfully issued. In addition the terms make no exception for those not causing obstruction.

    The Appellant further contends there could be no lawful contract as the sign refers to the BPA, when the Operator is not an accredited member, and the sign is too high to be legible. In relation to the first point, as the Operator mentions they remain corporate members of the BPA, which entitles them to use the logo. Even if this were wildly inaccurate and the Operator simply failed to change the logo on their sign it would not alter the terms, or the fact the Appellant agreed to them by parking as they did. The Appellant has provided a photograph of the sign, which appears high, but there is nothing against which to judge this, such as a vehicle to assess the height and scale. There is no evidence this cannot be read when stood near to the sign.

    The appeal is dismissed.




    can anyone advise me on what to do next,


    Thank you in advance
Page 2
    • Roshi
    • By Roshi 12th Apr 17, 11:28 AM
    • 57 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Roshi
    I agree and have been going on to them about doing something about CPM and contacting the management company. I have also highlighted that they can pursue them for years to come regarding outstanding tickets.


    I have given up , they are all to busy to be pro active at this point. Its frustrating
    • Roshi
    • By Roshi 12th Apr 17, 11:30 AM
    • 57 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Roshi
    Hi


    you have convinced me to carry on and not just pay, I just hope I can manage it as my IAS appeal was quite frankly rubbish.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 12th Apr 17, 12:17 PM
    • 6,839 Posts
    • 5,859 Thanks
    The Deep
    Sack the MA if necessary.

    Easier said than done, Difficult, (sometimes impossible), and possibly very expensive. I have learnt from experience that trying to organise tenants and landlords, many of who live abroad to take action against PPCs is a waste of my time.
    Last edited by The Deep; 12-04-2017 at 12:21 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Roshi
    • By Roshi 12th Apr 17, 12:47 PM
    • 57 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Roshi
    Well I have given up with the residents if they are happy to get unfair notices and ignore them they can.


    Me personally would be on the Management companies back, I think they are under the impressions nothing will come back on them in regards to the tickets they have had
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 12th Apr 17, 12:49 PM
    • 2,991 Posts
    • 3,018 Thanks
    DoaM
    Sack the MA if necessary.

    Easier said than done, Difficult, (sometimes impossible), and possibly very expensive. I have learnt from experience that trying to organise tenants and landlords, many of who live abroad to take action against PPCs is a waste of my time.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Herding cats is the image that comes to mind.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 12th Apr 17, 2:13 PM
    • 418 Posts
    • 791 Thanks
    safarmuk
    Sack the MA if necessary.

    Easier said than done, Difficult, (sometimes impossible), and possibly very expensive. I have learnt from experience that trying to organise tenants and landlords, many of who live abroad to take action against PPCs is a waste of my time.
    Originally posted by The Deep

    ”Herding cats is the image that comes to mind.
    That is precisely what it is like ...

    However if Roshi's friends and their neighbours are "stacking" up tickets they will get a bit of a shock if LBCs start dropping through their letter boxes or they get a default judgement should they move and not even know about the LBC in the future. I guess it will depend on how litigious CPM become.
    • Roshi
    • By Roshi 12th Apr 17, 4:45 PM
    • 57 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Roshi
    I have made them aware of the 6 year come back and they don't seem to be worried so I am leaving them to it now.
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 12th Apr 17, 4:51 PM
    • 418 Posts
    • 791 Thanks
    safarmuk
    I have made them aware of the 6 year come back and they don't seem to be worried so I am leaving them to it now.
    Fair enough.

    How many outstanding PCNs do your friends have and what stage are they at - the hysterical debt collector letters yet?
    • Roshi
    • By Roshi 13th Apr 17, 8:43 AM
    • 57 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Roshi
    They have multiple ... nope not a single letter after the initial one from CPM after receiving the ticket
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Apr 17, 9:02 AM
    • 6,839 Posts
    • 5,859 Thanks
    The Deep
    What residents may do or not do is of no consequence to the OP. They have the protection of the Law, their leases and ASTs, and the landlords can put pressure on the MAs, There is also Jopson et al to fall back on.

    I have seen nothing here that leads me to believe that the OP is a resident, and was anything but improperly parked. I would advise him/her to find somewhere else to park.
    Last edited by The Deep; 13-04-2017 at 9:13 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 13th Apr 17, 9:45 AM
    • 3,686 Posts
    • 5,222 Thanks
    Half_way
    ive read it as the OP was a visitor
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 13th Apr 17, 9:49 AM
    • 418 Posts
    • 791 Thanks
    safarmuk
    ive read it as the OP was a visitor
    Correct, me too. I understood the OP was a visitor to their friends property and was given a PCN whilst legitimately visiting their friends. The OPs friends are also getting PCNs (possibly own space PCNs) prior to the OPs PCN and we were querying where the OPs friends were in the process to assess how likely it is the OP hears more from CPM.

    The caveat in comparing the two cases is that the OPs address will not be on the estate and therefore it is possible that PCN may be pursued more than the PCNs that are turning up RK addresses on the estate.
    • Roshi
    • By Roshi 10th Jul 17, 8:32 AM
    • 57 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Roshi
    Hi Guys


    So I have now received a letter from Gladstone's ... its making me aware of the options CPM now have and giving me an " opportunity" to pay them and avoid the consideration of court action and the increase of the charges.


    Any advise ?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 10th Jul 17, 8:35 AM
    • 32,348 Posts
    • 16,414 Thanks
    Quentin
    Ignore everything except court correspondence or a proper letter before court action

    Read up in the newbies FAQ thread. You are at the debt collectors stage
    Last edited by Quentin; 10-07-2017 at 9:38 AM.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 10th Jul 17, 8:55 AM
    • 5,631 Posts
    • 7,265 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Hi Guys


    So I have now received a letter from Gladstone's ... its making me aware of the options CPM now have and giving me an " opportunity" to pay them and avoid the consideration of court action and the increase of the charges.


    Any advise ?
    Originally posted by Roshi
    What options or threats are these down and outs telling you
    Do they say who to pay ????
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Roshi
    • By Roshi 10th Jul 17, 9:14 AM
    • 57 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Roshi
    Well they have said


    " our client would like to provide you with the opportunity to contact their agent to make full payment thereby avoiding the consideration of any future court action and any increase in the amount claimed"


    " please contact our client agent Debt recovery plus limited in order to discuss payment proposal or make payment online "


    So they are asking me to pay debt recovery plus limited.


    and they have listed a load of debt helplines for me to contact .
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Jul 17, 9:21 AM
    • 13,971 Posts
    • 21,932 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    " please contact our client agent Debt recovery plus limited in order to discuss payment proposal or make payment online "
    I refer you to Quentin's advice in post #34.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 10th Jul 17, 9:29 AM
    • 5,631 Posts
    • 7,265 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Well they have said


    " our client would like to provide you with the opportunity to contact their agent to make full payment thereby avoiding the consideration of any future court action and any increase in the amount claimed"


    " please contact our client agent Debt recovery plus limited in order to discuss payment proposal or make payment online "


    So they are asking me to pay debt recovery plus limited.


    and they have listed a load of debt helplines for me to contact .
    Originally posted by Roshi
    This is a Gladstones pimped out letterhead asking you to pay
    a debt collector (DRP)
    DRP are simply a time wasting set up.

    IGNORE THIS MORE REFINED DEBT COLLECTION LETTER

    Just wait and if Gladstones decide on taking you to court, you will get a Letter before Action

    If you get a LBA then come back here
    Gladstones are an incompetent solicitor who often take on cases
    they don't have a clue about, hence they get whooped in court

    be patient
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Jul 17, 9:40 AM
    • 6,839 Posts
    • 5,859 Thanks
    The Deep
    Residents have far more rights to park on their land than shoppers in a shopping centre. In many cases these right extend to their visitors and tradesmen.

    Some of these rights, "peaceful enjoyment" for example are very powerful, and override almost everything a PPC can throw at you. Read the Parking Prankster blogs and see how often PPCs lose in "own space" court cases.

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com.es/
    Last edited by The Deep; 10-07-2017 at 9:44 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Roshi
    • By Roshi 10th Jul 17, 9:40 AM
    • 57 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    Roshi
    Thank you ! really appreciate your advise ... I will ignore until I get anything of substance


    Best wishes
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