Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Simon72
    • By Simon72 5th Apr 17, 7:46 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Simon72
    Advice appreciated: E7 tank wired to an E10 meter
    • #1
    • 5th Apr 17, 7:46 PM
    Advice appreciated: E7 tank wired to an E10 meter 5th Apr 17 at 7:46 PM
    Hi, I wonder if some of you knowledgeable folk could offer me some advice.

    I have just moved into rented accommodation that uses an electric hot water tank and non-storage heaters.

    The problem is that at some point the past, the house was on E7 with storage heaters - since replaced.
    The hot water tank has two heating elements, top and bottom, and from what understand one was the E7 off-peak, the other some sort of day boost.
    The house is now on E10 though and it looks like the lower thermostat is no longer wired to a live circuit. If I turn the top one on I can hear it starting to heat up but correct me if Iím wrong, I donít want to be using that? There is also no timer of any sort.

    At the time of moving in my landlord pointed to the switches and said Ďthatís for hot waterí but its only now Iím starting to realise what everything is.

    To be sure I used an electrical test pen on the lower circuit during one of my E10 off-peak times and well as checking the second fuse board which Iím also guessing is from the E7 days Ė both show as dead so I think Iím right saying the E10 meter no longer feeds that.

    Iím going to speak to my landlord and ask if something can be done, but I want to be informed first.

    Am I right in thinking that the lower thermostat could by rewired to the active ring main and with a timer installed inline, I could then program it to work around my economy 10 off-peak periods?

    For the moment Iím ok with an electric shower and boiling a kettle to wash up, but id like to know I could use the tank if needed.

    Thanks for reading

    Simon
Page 1
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 10th Apr 17, 5:52 PM
    • 12,420 Posts
    • 16,595 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 17, 5:52 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 17, 5:52 PM
    I have dual rate meter and it doesn't switch anything on or off, it just records how much electricity that I use at high and low rates.

    My immersion heater is connected to the fuse box via a immersion heater time switch. It has a dedicated circuit as I believe it should. Connecting it to an existing ring main is not a good idea.
    Advice; it rhymes with mice. Advise; it rhymes with wise.
    • LynnLegend
    • By LynnLegend 12th Apr 17, 7:14 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    LynnLegend
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 17, 7:14 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 17, 7:14 PM
    We have e10 heating and the bottom element turns on automatically during off peak hours. Try running the hot tap to see if you have hot water.

    The top element will cost a fortune so avoid using that.
    • Simon72
    • By Simon72 19th Apr 17, 10:27 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Simon72
    • #4
    • 19th Apr 17, 10:27 AM
    • #4
    • 19th Apr 17, 10:27 AM
    @Gloomendoom
    My current meter works just as you describe but I believe some E7 systems have their own circuits and the meter switches them on/off

    I was not suggesting I just plug the lower element into a wall socket - I was thinking the lower one could be wired to the same circuit as the upper, which has its own dedicated fuse on the consumer unit.

    @LynnLegend
    No I don't have any hot water. The switch to the lower element was already switched on when I moved in so It's probably been left like that for a while - the previous tenant thinking it did something.


    The house has two consumer units - the main one has a fuse marked up for the immersion tank but that's just for the top element. The second consumer unit is the one i believe feeds the lower element and possibly the since removed storage heats - this circuit appears to be dead.

    In my living room, next to my electric heaters there is a second fused wall socket that is not connected to anything, so i'm also guessing this was where the storage radiator was connected, again back to the second consumer unit.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 29th Apr 17, 1:08 PM
    • 1,390 Posts
    • 1,420 Thanks
    EachPenny
    • #5
    • 29th Apr 17, 1:08 PM
    • #5
    • 29th Apr 17, 1:08 PM
    The hot water tank has two heating elements, top and bottom, and from what understand one was the E7 off-peak, the other some sort of day boost.
    Originally posted by Simon72
    Yes, often the tank will be fitted with two heaters, the lower one will heat the whole tank, the top one just heats the water nearest the top. Sometimes a single dual-element heater is fitted near the top of the tank which combines both functions - so there is no hard and fast rule about the number of visible heaters and what is actualy inside the tank. The 'boost' element would normally only be used to add some heat during the day if you have run out of hot water.

    The house is now on E10 though and it looks like the lower thermostat is no longer wired to a live circuit. If I turn the top one on I can hear it starting to heat up but correct me if Iím wrong, I donít want to be using that? There is also no timer of any sort.
    Originally posted by Simon72
    I'd want to understand more about why the lower heater (I assume you mean that, not 'thermostat'?) is not connected. Immersion heater elements can corrode allowing water to come into contact with the live heating wire - if this happens the earth leakage protection for the circuit (or whole house) should 'trip'. If the water heating was not in use and this has happened in your case then someone may just have isolated the supply to the immersion heater to 'fix' the problem. Replacing or removing a faulty heater is a more complex and costly job so isolation is a quick 'fix'. I wouldn't want to re-use a disconnected immersion heater without it being checked for safety.

    At the time of moving in my landlord pointed to the switches and said Ďthatís for hot waterí but its only now Iím starting to realise what everything is.
    Originally posted by Simon72
    Any changes made to the system need to be done by a qualified person - it won't be cheap. I would be surprised if a landlord with a 'that's for hot water' approach will be willing to invest in improvements which will only benefit you.

    To be sure I used an electrical test pen on the lower circuit during one of my E10 off-peak times and well as checking the second fuse board which Iím also guessing is from the E7 days Ė both show as dead
    Originally posted by Simon72
    NEVER make assumptions like this. The apparent lack of power at the time you tested it is not proof that it is dead, especially if you used a test pen which are not always reliable. The circuit could have multiple timeswitches and/or thermostats involved, so may not be live when you test, but could become live at any point and without warning. NEVER guess with electricity - otherwise the most likely thing to be dead is you.

    Iím going to speak to my landlord and ask if something can be done, but I want to be informed first.
    Originally posted by Simon72
    It is worth asking, but if he won't pay for a qualified person to do the work then don't be tempted to do it yourself.

    Am I right in thinking that the lower thermostat could by rewired to the active ring main and with a timer installed inline, I could then program it to work around my economy 10 off-peak periods?
    Originally posted by Simon72
    The method of doing it needs to be worked out by a qualified person, but if it was me I would look at having the lower (main) element heating the water overnight (by timer) and the upper (boost) element operating by timer during the day cheap period to top up the heat for evening use. Both immersion heaters MUST be fitted with safety thermostats, so these will mean you only use electric if the water is not already hot enough.

    The best arrangements for you will depend on your own personal circumstances. If you bath/shower in the morning then the water heated overnight may be enough to see you through the whole day. If you use a lot of hot water in the evenings then you may need some daytime boost.

    The top element will cost a fortune so avoid using that.
    Originally posted by LynnLegend
    That is only the case if the top element is used during the more expensive hours, or is wired to a meter which only records a single (high) rate.

    If the OP only uses a small amount of hot water then only using the top element may work out much cheaper, even if occasionally used at more expensive times of day. There is no point heating the whole tank if you only use a couple of gallons of hot water a day (e.g. you use a separate electric shower). The cost of heat-loss from even a well-insulated tank may offset the additional cost of topping up the heat when required.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,787Posts Today

8,800Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • Byebye! I'm about to stop work & twitter, to instead spend glorious time with Mrs & mini MSE. Wishing u a lovely summer. See u in 10 days.

  • WARNING Did you start Uni in or after 2012? The interest's rising to 6.1%; yet it doesnt work like you think. See https://t.co/IQ8f0Vyetu RT

  • RT @JanaBeee: @MartinSLewis Boris is the anomaly (coffee), the others are versions of normal (beer). Lots of same candidates = vote share d?

  • Follow Martin