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  • FIRST POST
    • geoff1057
    • By geoff1057 4th Apr 17, 8:26 PM
    • 186Posts
    • 28Thanks
    geoff1057
    Smart parking ,DRP charge, SHOCK
    • #1
    • 4th Apr 17, 8:26 PM
    Smart parking ,DRP charge, SHOCK 4th Apr 17 at 8:26 PM
    Hi, today i had a demand for payment - unpaid PCN £160 from DRP .Came as a shock , saying that they are writing on behalf of Smart Parking. Unknown to me ,they sent the first letter to my previous address, (as i just moved house and not yet informed the DVLA) but it wasnt passed on , so the charge is now in the hands of DRP. Of course i dispute this decision , and have asked them for proof of the said incident, but they said that any proof will be sent straight to the courts.Can they do this ?? Really worried , am going for a mortgage soon worried about CCJ , NOT SURE WHAT TO DO NEXT, thanks, Em
Page 2
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 5th Apr 17, 2:39 PM
    • 1,012 Posts
    • 1,744 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    As and when this gets to the Letter Before Claim stage, send them this letter - that refusal to provide any information is outrageous.


    First, read the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct. It is part of the court rules and it obliges potential Claimants and Defendants to do certain things before they issue proceedings. All PPCs ignore it, which is not on. Most judges don't care, unless you make the right sort of fuss about it and then they might.
    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_pre-action_conduct

    This is the letter I'd send:

    Dear Sirs,

    Thank you for your letter of x.

    When your client's debt collectors first started contacting me, I asked them for details of the basis upon which money was being claimed, including all photographs taken of the vehicle at the relevant time. Extraordinarily, I was told (in blunt terms) by [name of debt collectors] that no such evidence would be provided "until this gets to court" [try and reproduce the exact words used].


    You have now sent a Letter Before Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and, again, fails to provide the photographic evidence which I requested as long ago as [date - if you don't know exact date, put the month and year]. It does not even say what the cause of action is. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence.


    This action on the part of your client is a clear breach of its pre-action obligations set out in the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, with which as solicitors you must surely be familiar (and with which your client, a serial litigator of small claims, must also be familiar). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.


    Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction. Your client cannot simply refuse to provide the relevant information "until this gets to court" [or whatever they said].

    I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

    1. an explanation of the cause of action
    2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
    3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    4. what the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)
    5. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim
    6. a copy of any alleged contract with the driver
    7. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
    8. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    9. If they have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.

    I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

    If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information since as early as [date or month/year of first request] yet your client has refused to provide it, saying that it will not do so until this matter reaches the court.


    Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

    Yours faithfully etc.

    These cases are all authority that the court must punish a party who fails to comply with the Practice Direction. Don't expect this to necessarily work. PPCs always ignore the practice direction - but quoting this case law may make a difference. At the very least, it will protect you on costs later.

    If they issue anyway without responding substantively, I would recommend that you write to the court with a copy of the letter complaining about their failure to respond and ask it to stay the proceedings pursuant to para 15(b) and to order the Claimant to provide the information you have requested before any stay is lifted. If your claim contains the usual incoherent Particulars of Claim which do not say what the claim is but just contains some unintelligible wording with a number plate and some figures, then complain about that too and ask the court (in the alternative) to strike out the incoherent claim pursuant to CPR Rule 3.4. You should invite the court to make either an order under its inherent case management powers (contained in CPR Rule 1.4(2)(c) and Practice Direction 26, paragraph 5.1) or to treat your letter as an application rather than requiring you to formally issue one (which it may do pursuant to CPR Part 23.3(2)(b)).
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Apr 17, 4:13 PM
    • 48,965 Posts
    • 62,457 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Gosh ,after total shock and mad panic after receiving a letter from a debt recovery service, i now feel much better , much calmer and at ease after reading all your helpful comments and advice. I will keep updating you on any other letters or phone calls that i receive. Big thanks to you all. Emma.
    Originally posted by geoff1057
    No problem, we've seen this all before and it is nothing to worry about as long as you now receive all letters to check Smart don't break the habit of a lifetime and get litigious (even then we help with defences that win).

    Here are some threads like your case:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5618021

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5613640

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5603689

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5603599

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5603729

    Don't be scared by the 'Gladstones' letter that is in fact posted not by a solicitor but by DRPlus!

    LoadsofChildren123 is not talking about the Gladstones letter asking for payment to Debt Recovery Plus, she is talking about IF you got a real LBCCC after that, not asking for payment to the debt collector.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • geoff1057
    • By geoff1057 5th Apr 17, 8:07 PM
    • 186 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    geoff1057
    @OP. I notice you didn't respond to my post #10.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Sorry for that Umkomaas, i have posted my change of address and log book to DVLA today.Driving licence is ok sorted that a couple of weeks ago .Thank you all again , Em .
    Last edited by geoff1057; 05-04-2017 at 8:21 PM.
    • geoff1057
    • By geoff1057 6th Apr 17, 9:24 AM
    • 186 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    geoff1057
    Hello again ,sorry for being a pain . I havnt yet said in any of my posts that this parking incident happened at a water attraction in Staffordshire, but just looking on Tripadvisor iam totally SHOCKED at the amount of complaints, and that PCNs that are issued to nearly everyone who parks there ,regardless wether they have paid , paid more than they should have or what. Reviews say complaints to the company are just ignored and even laughed off by staff . The place was a dump when i went there , with dirty changing rooms , broken lockers and very rude staff , the whole place was a rip off , and a £3 parking charge . Then a PCN........ thinking of a letter to the local newspaper , about how they rip off their customers....... ANGRY .. thanks again Emma
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 6th Apr 17, 9:31 AM
    • 5,656 Posts
    • 7,306 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Hello again ,sorry for being a pain . I havnt yet said in any of my posts that this parking incident happened at a water attraction in Staffordshire, but just looking on Tripadvisor iam totally SHOCKED at the amount of complaints, and that PCNs that are issued to nearly everyone who parks there ,regardless wether they have paid , paid more than they should have or what. Reviews say complaints to the company are just ignored and even laughed off by staff . The place was a dump when i went there , with dirty changing rooms , broken lockers and very rude staff , the whole place was a rip off , and a £3 parking charge . Then a PCN........ thinking of a letter to the local newspaper , about how they rip off their customers....... ANGRY .. thanks again Emma
    Originally posted by geoff1057
    It's all a huge scam which is government approved

    Yes, go to the press, add your own comments to trip advisor and the water attractions facebook page.
    Cause as much damage as you can ... you are in charge

    Mrs May knows all about this scam but does nothing. a letter to her would be suitable. Get your MP involved
    Last edited by beamerguy; 06-04-2017 at 9:35 AM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 6th Apr 17, 9:58 AM
    • 40,203 Posts
    • 80,294 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    It's all a huge scam which is government approved

    Yes, go to the press, add your own comments to trip advisor and the water attractions facebook page.
    Cause as much damage as you can ... you are in charge

    Mrs May knows all about this scam but does nothing. a letter to her would be suitable. Get your MP involved
    Originally posted by beamerguy
    Absolutely, plus Andrew Jones MP. This disgusting unregulated scam industry needs to be highlighted to the people who are supposed to looking after the public.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • geoff1057
    • By geoff1057 6th Apr 17, 3:28 PM
    • 186 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    geoff1057
    YES agree total Scam , £3 parking fee for upto 8hrs, plus first hour free = 9 hours . Opening times 10am -4pm PCN for overstayed paid time ?
    and WATERWORLD do nothing about it .
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 6th Apr 17, 3:39 PM
    • 5,656 Posts
    • 7,306 Thanks
    beamerguy
    YES agree total Scam , £3 parking fee for upto 8hrs, plus first hour free = 9 hours . Opening times 10am -4pm PCN for overstayed paid time ?
    and WATERWORLD do nothing about it .
    Originally posted by geoff1057
    Maybe Waterworld take a share, parking companies do pay commissions ......

    The question can be posed on Trip Advisor

    It's amazing how such things are spread by word and mouth alone
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • geoff1057
    • By geoff1057 6th Apr 17, 5:18 PM
    • 186 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    geoff1057
    Have emailed Waterworld ,interested to see their reply .
    Local newspaper say they are interested in my story and have asked me to give them a ring for a chat.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 6th Apr 17, 6:46 PM
    • 5,656 Posts
    • 7,306 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Have emailed Waterworld ,interested to see their reply .
    Local newspaper say they are interested in my story and have asked me to give them a ring for a chat.
    Originally posted by geoff1057
    Good, when you speak to the newspaper, please impress on them the scam that is going on.
    Be pre warned, they will want your picture

    A good story will be picked up by the national press and if it gets into the Daily Mail, Water World will struggle

    Do tell your MP that you are reporting this to the press.
    Puts some pressure on the MP to join in

    Your probably know that some MP's have cloth ears and not much between their ears anyway
    Last edited by beamerguy; 06-04-2017 at 6:54 PM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • geoff1057
    • By geoff1057 6th Apr 17, 7:24 PM
    • 186 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    geoff1057
    Had a reply from Waterword , given email address to email a director ,and he will sort the problem out with Smart Parking. Will do this tomorrow.
    • Curious1ty
    • By Curious1ty 7th Apr 17, 12:53 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Curious1ty
    Can I ask a question about this please. This is my first post and I can't find how to start a question of my own so replying here as my issue relates to Smart Parking and Debt Recovery Plus Ltd also.

    Some months ago I got a letter from Smart parking and before I found the information on the forum I had written to them with a copy receipt re my shopping and the reason why I felt the charge was unfair etc. Surprise surprise they wrote back ignoring all the points made and saying the charge was not being cancelled.

    I then wrote to the retailer (M&S) who wrote back that they had taken the matter up with the retail park management company and that the retail park manager would ensure that it would be cancelled. This was at a stage when I could still have paid £30 (if I had not feel that the charge was inherently unfair). M&S manager apologised etc also sent me a £10 gift voucher for my inconvenience.

    So far, so good but since then I have continued to receive correspondence from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd which I have ignored after reading the newbie thread on here.

    Latterly I received a letter from Zenith Collections yet again demanding £160 and saying that if I don't pay then their client will consider taking legal action against me for this amount. In my opinion all correspondence has been from Smart Parking themselves although on the DRP and Zenith letterheads.

    Should I write to them to state that I had been advised by the land managers that the charge would be cancelled and I would, therefore, use this as my defence if they should take the matter to court? Or do you think I should I continue to ignore the correspondence and only respond if court action is taken? Oh and yes of course I wrote to both M&S and the retail park again when the correspondence kept coming but have had no response to this which is frustrating as I had their initial assurance that this would be cancelled.

    Thank you for your advice.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 7th Apr 17, 6:14 AM
    • 14,044 Posts
    • 22,061 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    1. Go back to M&S and bitterly complain (again)!

    2. Ignore debt recovery agents - utterly powerless. Do not communicate with them.

    3. Do not ignore court papers. But Smart have never taken anyone to court - ever. If they do change in this respect, we can help with defending. If they do change, they will pick their cases very carefully, most likely those with a number of outstanding tickets. Over 600,000 tickets issued by Smart in the past couple of years - not one single court case. Do you think it will be you who is selected as their first?

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Smart_Parking.html

    4. Read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky - tells you all you need to know.

    5. Any further questions must be via a new thread please. Go back to the page you have just jumped from to read this post. You will find the large red, oblong 'New Thread' button just above the forum thread list.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • geoff1057
    • By geoff1057 10th Apr 17, 11:18 AM
    • 186 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    geoff1057
    Today letter No2 from DRP, if not payed by 21/4 they will recommend to their client that court action be taken by them to recover the outstanding balance.....BRING IT ON. Emma
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 10th Apr 17, 11:24 AM
    • 5,656 Posts
    • 7,306 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Today letter No2 from DRP, if not payed by 21/4 they will recommend to their client that court action be taken by them to recover the outstanding balance.....BRING IT ON. Emma
    Originally posted by geoff1057
    DRP are such a stupid company.

    When they pass it back, the do not earn any money

    Just how stupid can a company be ??? ... IT'S CALLED DRP
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Apr 17, 11:29 AM
    • 14,044 Posts
    • 22,061 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Today letter No2 from DRP, if not payed by 21/4 they will recommend to their client that court action be taken by them to recover the outstanding balance.....BRING IT ON. Emma
    Originally posted by geoff1057
    Yes we know! You won't be 'bringing anything on' with DRP because first and foremost you must not engage with them, secondly they are powerless and will only send silly letters, thirdly you won't shake them off - they will eventually give up on you and crawl back from where they came.

    Have a read of the following, pick out the chain of DRP letters so you will be fully aware of what comes next. No need to post about DRP letters or their subsidiary Zenith (who will follow on shortly).

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2329119

    Only come back if Smart (or Solicitors acting for them) start court action.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • geoff1057
    • By geoff1057 12th Jul 17, 7:08 PM
    • 186 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    geoff1057
    Had my 2nd letter off Zenith (6th in all) today requiring immediate payment of £160 for their client, but no where on this letter does it say who there client is. They rang my house and spoke to my dad, asking him to give me a message to contact them asap, he said he wouldnt.
    I emailed Smart Parking weeks ago to give them my address , which Zenith obviously already know . STILL to this day i have not had any letter , contact or a PCN from Smart Parking.
    Shall i just continue to ignore , thanks, Emma
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jul 17, 7:18 PM
    • 48,965 Posts
    • 62,457 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3829727

    It is still DRP.

    All cases are the same, you can predict the letters if you just Google images of them.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • geoff1057
    • By geoff1057 31st Jul 17, 12:03 PM
    • 186 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    geoff1057
    Today had my letter off Gladstones Solicitors, or DRP or who ever it is . Just to ask are Gladstones a legit solicitors. Thanks Emma
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 31st Jul 17, 12:11 PM
    • 3,032 Posts
    • 3,082 Thanks
    DoaM
    Depends on your definition of legit.

    They are solicitors and are governed by the Solicitors Regulation Authority.

    Check who the letter advises you to pay. If it is DRP then it's just another debt collection letter.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
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