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  • FIRST POST
    • telboy82
    • By telboy82 4th Apr 17, 7:23 PM
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    telboy82
    My dog had cardiac arrest in small cage at vets after 14 hours
    • #1
    • 4th Apr 17, 7:23 PM
    My dog had cardiac arrest in small cage at vets after 14 hours 4th Apr 17 at 7:23 PM
    Hi all,
    firstly thank you for taking the time to read my story, ive come here because im trying to find information online but not getting very far, my dog passed away this morning in the care of the vets am im sure its down to how he was treated there, so im going to tel our story and if anyone can guide me in the right direction that would be great, I feel I owe it to my lost companion.
    So yesterday morning my dog which is a large Johnsons American Bulldog, nearly 8 years old, muscley and healthy at 55kg, he has had the odd 24 hour bug before maybe twice and nothing else ever, so at 9:30am he starts being sick indoors twice very quickly bringing up his morning breakfast, as this happened i see a large half rugby ball size lump pop out from his belly as he was sick and it went away as soon as he was finished being sick, within a second i panicked and thought Bloat straight away, I rung the vets and they told me to bring him down at 3:10pm, i also called my wife at work to hurry and come to help me and get him to the vets, he wasnt sick again but he was very restless and thirsty as his mouth kept going dry, we got him in the car and rushed to London to a well known charity based vet clinic weve have took our pets to for about 15 years so we had a lot o trust in them, they also knew that they had a dog with suspected bloat coming in, so im there 3pm with my dog but had to wait to around 4pm to get him seen.
    The vet was sure it might not be bloat as she said he would have definatley died by now but he is obviously unwell so they wanted to keep him in and do an xray and blood test to find the problem, and said he will be ok but we need to keep him overnight. My dog hasnt spent a night away from me ever and is a big baby and very easily upset and scared and i told them this, and this is where I fall to pieces.
    We had to weigh him in the vets room and he didn't want to so i had to lift him on the scales and when i had to lift him off because he was scared and one of the 2 vets in the room tutted like it was an inconvenience and when i had to hand him and his lead to the vet he didnt want to go and the vet actually grabbed him by the collar around his neck to try and drag him which made me angry so i managed to slide him away into the next room and that was that and we left, this was at around 4pm.
    While back at home waiting for news but we had to make a call at 6pm as they didnt call, and they said he is stable and sedated in his cage and the xray shows nothing to worry about neither does the blood test but they need to find out the problem so they will call the next morning(today) at 10am, well i had to call back again last night at 9pm to see how he was as i was very worried about him, not just his condition but his welfare as i know he would be very scared there and i offered many times to come down to comfort him or keep him company because i knew he needed that being away from home they said no, on the phone call at 9pm the vet said hes sedation wore of but he is sitting up fine in his cage and they will call us in the morning, they also said he tried to escape his cage, which started me worrying very much then.
    my wife answered a call this morning at 9:20 to say he passed away this morning about 6am due to cardiac arrest.
    We couldnt talk on the phone due to shock and wanted to get down there asap to find out what happened and to say goodbye to my friend, before we got there my gut as telling me something was wrong because he was in the right place to get emergency treatment, my mind was telling me why was he sedated and how many times was he sedated, i know they probably sedated him to get the xray but if that wore before 9pm because they told us on the phone, my worry was if they sedated him again, and also did he get that scared he panicked to bring on his heart attack.
    So we arrive at the vets and wait to be taken in the room again and hear what happened, the same vet who told me not to worry my dog will be fine starting saying they were very shocked at what happened and they dont know how or why he had a cardiac arrest and offered to do and autopsy to which i declined, i felt they wanted to put more effort in after his death than before, i also know my dog was going to be very upset there with maybe separation anxiety etc as he is scared easy and never been away from home, and wanted to get to the bottom of why he passed instead of trying to give them a chance to pass the blame on to my dogs health which seemed all very good.
    So the vet told me again that yesterday they did an xray and blood test but found nothing and couldnt do anything else yesterday due to his sedation and wanted that to wear off by this morning to carry on treating him, problem is I knew he needed emergency treatment yesterday when he was in a bad restless state and he didnt get it and that i believe between the drugs and being scared there in this cage this probably led to a cardiac arrest and that surely this could of been avoided, anyway a few things were said but she kept try to tell me 8 years is actually old for these dogs and they have weak hearts, these dogs average age is actually 10-15.
    Then i said ok can i go and say goodbye to my dog now thats what i need to do, so they went to take the fluids line out so we didnt have to him with needles in him, me and my wife then walk to a back room on the ground level where mainly cats are kept inside a kind of bespoke cage of lots of little cages on the wall (keep in mind they have another 3 levels with rooms etc) at the bottom is a couple of larger cages but not large enough, in one of the cages was my dog lying down on his side with barely if not enough room to even stretch his legs out straight, its was a few inches longer than his body and if he sat or stood in there im positive his head would of been touching the top, im sure he could get up and lay down on his front belly only but im pretty sure he never had enough room to turn around or even lay on his side with legs out stretched, as soon as i see him in the cage i was shocked and said "is this where you kept my dog all day yesterday till when he died" and she said yes, at this moment i was positive my poor dog was so scared being in a cage he couldnt move around in all that time being separated from us, no wonder he tried to escape the cage he couldnt move in, it wasnt built for a dog at 120lbs/ 55kg its for smaller dogs, he probably got scared to death in that cage, i feel that they neglected him in that cage, and if he played up which he did they should of offered for us to collect him and bring him back in the morning or if anything gets worse which i was more than prepared to do, and if they didnt have the correct size cage for such a large dog why didnt they show us where he was going to be kept to see if we think he would be ok there or not, or why didnt they just say based on your dogs size we are not the best place to keep him and refer someone with large enough cages or rooms for my dog, he has no room in that cage and i looked at all the cats who had comfortable amounts of room in there cages, i was so angry at the way he was treated and thought in all that time he just had an xray and blood test then was let in his tiny cage to panic to death, it looked so cruel i just broke down crying and saying sorry to him, because if they showed me that cage before i let them take him i would of laughed at them and said he wouldnt last 10 minutes in that cage. So i truly believe not out of spite but in my heart he was treated very poorly with neglect and im pretty sure that cage size from what i can find online was for a dog around 90lbs maximum and my dog is a big 120+lbs, I owe it to him because i see that cage i would have rushed him elsewhere as he had time for treatment he didnt get, and i would of made sure he wouldnt of been put in such a small cage. im in absolute pieces over this because i believe my dog most likely had a very traumatic experience in that small cage and they probably over sedated him to just get him to settle, and if this is the way vets are going then they just got sloppy with the wrong animal owner and if i can id like to make point and possibly sue this company just to make point about animals in cages as it obviously causes huge problems for some dogs and can make the situation worse if they cannot provide the right facilities for a dogs welfare, i wanted to take a picture of the cage but there were some people in the way of the cage next door and the other cage had my boy in it and i couldnt take a photo of him i was crying too much. So does anyone feel that a dog shouldnt be kept in a cage that they cannot turn around in comfortably or at all, and how do i sue them or this cruel neglect.
Page 4
    • telboy82
    • By telboy82 14th Apr 17, 7:26 PM
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    telboy82
    In the village I live in there are two vets they dont have very good reviews online, there some vets in the surround towns and a specialist horse and bulldog vets about 6 miles away, I do wish when I took my dog on and moved from London that I looked for a private vets and paid more for treatment, it is a hard lesson indeed, as you say even in doing this it may not of resulted in a different ending, no body knows. But il try to find another vet.
    • telboy82
    • By telboy82 14th Apr 17, 7:51 PM
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    telboy82
    iammumtoone,
    Yes you are correct, thats what i like the truth in the way you put it across,
    as Aristotle said "an educated mind can entertain a thought without accepting it"

    I dont think it will go to court as it seems the vets are always right, its just the truth, it seems that no matter what they do its always in the animals best interest, and I truly hope it is, but we have to be honest and recognize that not every vet is up to standard, either with equipment or vets and nurses, there are obviously some people out there that arent great with animals like the assistant who tried dragging my dog by his throat collar, ive neer man handled an animal like that so id not expect a professional to do so, that did shock me at first that was the first time I ever see one of my pets get handled rough.
    So if I make a complaint it may make the RCV pay a visit and maybe make them raise their standards, thats all they wont loose out either way and if anything does come of that its only a positive all round for the reputation of the vet and the animals they treat, it wouldnt be public so nobody would know about it.

    If I take them court which is highly unlikely now because id have what seems like the world against me and very powerful experienced people in the courtroom, they would turn me over with no proof and witnesses to back up any allegations of neglect and misconduct, id never walk in to something I couldnt walk out of or have a good chance at winning, but I feel a complaint to RVC may filter down and help get the vets to raise their standards, as someone said there may have been other tests that could have been done, maybe they need help getting more or better equipment.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 15th Apr 17, 5:00 PM
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    teddysmum
    Now I'm puzzled.
    Charities like the PDSA have their own clinics and hospitals, but in areas where they don't have premises, they subcontract private vets who charge the charity's prices (usually a donation) to people who are entitled because of income.


    Did you use the charity facility at the vets (ie just pay a small donation) or did you use the vet in his capacity of a private practice ?


    The former should only happen if you are entitled to help and the vet would not be able to give a full range of facilities (eg MRI as previously mentioned) because the charity cannot afford to pay for such.


    However, if you used the vet in a private capacity, because you do not qualify for charity help, the charity usage is irrelevant and you get the service you are willing to pay for, but not at charity rates.
    • telboy82
    • By telboy82 15th Apr 17, 5:18 PM
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    telboy82
    Yes the later option, I paid as if it were a private vet so charged their full costs always have done there. Myself and my wife both work so we dont qualify for any help with anything, we try not to also and always pay our way.
    • telboy82
    • By telboy82 15th Apr 17, 6:09 PM
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    telboy82
    Apparently because we inherited the dog at a young age and he was already a patient there from a family member who was the first owner he can stay a patient there but we still have to pay full charges, also if you adopt you can have the animal there as a patient, depending on circumstances id imagine some people get cheaper treatment but me and my wife we have always paid full costs.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 15th Apr 17, 6:56 PM
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    lincroft1710
    So you inherited the dog, so didn't buy him. Yet in a previous post you were threatening to sue the vet for the cost of the dog.

    If you complain to the RCVS you will need to show that the vet has failed to adhere to the RCVS Code of Professional Conduct for Veterinary Surgeons or in the case of the nurse, the RCVS Code of Professional Conduct for Veterinary Nurses. There is no guarantee the RCVS will visit the premises.

    If you do complain, make your complaint concise and stick to the facts, leave the emotion at home.
    • telboy82
    • By telboy82 15th Apr 17, 9:01 PM
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    telboy82
    I bought the dog for the family member as he grew he was given back to me as me and my wife were looking after him very regularly, so I did pay for him.
    • Pop Up Pirate
    • By Pop Up Pirate 19th Apr 17, 10:45 AM
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    Pop Up Pirate
    Seems like you make it up as you go along.
    • gettingready
    • By gettingready 19th Apr 17, 2:44 PM
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    gettingready
    Apparently because we inherited the dog at a young age and he was already a patient there from a family member who was the first owner he can stay a patient there but we still have to pay full charges, also if you adopt you can have the animal there as a patient, depending on circumstances id imagine some people get cheaper treatment but me and my wife we have always paid full costs.
    Originally posted by telboy82
    You do realise that the "full cost" was still at a much reduced price than regular vets as you were using charity vets

    I do wish when I took my dog on and moved from London that I looked for a private vets and paid more for treatment,.
    Originally posted by telboy82
    You are making stories and forget what you written and where/when.
    Last edited by gettingready; 19-04-2017 at 2:47 PM.
    • Shoshannah
    • By Shoshannah 19th Apr 17, 11:20 PM
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    Shoshannah
    Ok sorry ive been away but one poster was right, within half a day of him dying I did come here worked up and upset blaming the vet, I apologize for this I should of waited I can understand how me coming here with such a subject and what I said would upset people, I promise that was never my intention, out of the shock and pain I needed people to talk, and hopefully find some find some guidance, I thank you all for your input and questions, some question are hard to answer so il try my best. Lets continue...

    Also yes the dog get did ill my care, I believe throwing up his breakfast was what made him il, no underlying issues what so ever were found, he was in my care for around 6 1/2 hours and his condition didnt deteriorate in that time, he was very thirsty and lethargic but because of being sick and not having enough water in his body, he hadnt drunk after his breakfast yet and not since the evening before, just the small amounts I was letting him have after being sick, as I said before I was giving him water which he was happy to drink but I didnt want to give him too much until the vet saw him, I didnt rush him to an emergency vet before this because of the trust at our vets and he wasnt deteriorating while I was watching him and letting him drink small amounts of water, so in my mind he was stable and fine just thirsty and lethargic from being sick, but wanted him checked over to make sure.
    But lets clear up about this money talk, I can raise and investigation with RVC and I intend to, this will cost me nothing, but from what I can find its very unlikely that will find any mis conduct at all as to be honest vets can literally get away with anything, and im sorry accidents happen isnt quite fair, If I did take the vets to court to claim all that im able to claim is what I paid or him, the cost of that treatment and his cremation, and any days holiday my wife has lost last week and this week if lucky, so in all it does not make sense to make a claim because if I lose and have to pay their fees it could cost me tens of thousands of pounds, has this scared me off? not yet, and this is exactly how and why nothing gets changed, I think the dogs welfare acts go back to 1966 and many people are trying to get it updated.

    I believe which most likely can never be confirmed is that after he was sick bringing up his entire breakfast which also emptied his stomach of any remaining water in the food,cause a reaction called "Hypernatraemia", now this is caused by a water and sodium imbalance, this can be caused by a dog licking table salt which raise his levels of sodium which is dangerous and needs water fluids to correct the balance.
    My dog i believe had a water im balance from being sick, this also happens when a dog has diarrhea and loses lots of water, they need the balance correcting, either by removing sodium from the animal or adding water, firstly by offering water orally if its the water they need, i they cant drink then water solution 5% dextrose or similar but its water.
    So after telling the vet he had been sick his whole breakfast and and only had small amounts of water, and you can clearly see his thirsty and ive told them his thirsty, id assume even they would conclude the dog needs water regardless and should of been considered, thats what they treated him for last time, water loss.
    So if there are any vets on here id like them to answer this, if you know a dog has no water and been sick all his meal would assume of your extensive costly training that my dog needed more water in his body or more salt? in fact I bet from that information alone even some the other readers here would say he needed water, just an assumption, also lets not forget that when administering IV fluids its important to get the correct fluid or you will not help matters just make them worse causing more serious injuries and pain and death, now before using these fluids you are supposed to carry out the standard blood tests and most importantly the Biochemistry Profile test that all vets carry out, this test is easy to and is vital it can pin point where to treat an animal most times and also tells you all the body chemical levels like Salt etc, this test would o said if my dog needed water or salt, it would of told them enough to sae my dog im sure.
    Well the form says a "Biochemistry not available as blood machine unable to read sample when pcv too high".
    Seriously they they are saying no reading because he had too many red blood sell, thats a joke right, there machine couldnt get a blood reading, that is a very important piece o equipment i cant understand how it cant get a reading. This test has a extremly high this is what is said about this simple basic test:

    Description: The serum chemistry profile is one of the most important initial tests that is commonly performed. A blood sample is collected from the patient. The blood is then separated into a cell layer and serum layer by spinning the sample at high speeds in a machine called a centrifuge. The serum layer is drawn off and a variety of compounds are then measured. These measurements aid in assessing the function of various organs and body systems.
    Diagnostic Value: Very high. Sometimes a specific diagnosis may be made on the basis of a blood chemistry profile alone. More often than not, however, the profile provides information on a variety of body organs and systems, giving the doctor an indication of where a problem might be located. The profile can be extremely helpful in determining which of the many other diagnostic tests might be beneficial.
    Risks to Patient: Virtually none, provided that the blood is collected under sterile conditions by a trained professional.
    Relative Cost: Relatively low when a group of test are run as one panel.


    So anyway ok the machine doesnt work so she had to make a decision on fluids to use, not try a bowl of water first, going back over everything that she clearly didnt listen tome she made the clever decision to put him on fluids anyway.
    He is given fluids to correct his imbalance they are two 1litre bags are " Aqupharm no1" which is sodium chloride "NaCl high rate" its safe to say he wasnt getting his water and that sodium overload was of caused him much pain even death.

    Lets talk about pain, so to sedate my dog they used a opium based painkiller called "Vetergesic" my dog has never had this, this wasnt to relieve pain it was to sedate him, why not use a mild sedative, this drug is very strong look it up vets having been causing animal deaths all over the country with this drug, its opium based and very addictive from the first use, most dogs ive read about get one injection and hit the deck struggling to breath and move some get put down not long after some takes weeks to recover and never quite the same, my dog had 6 injections at east on his form I just need to get the total doses, also these opium type drugs should not be mixed so after having all this one type of opioid drug a fair amount of it why inject him with a different type of opioid drug "Methadome" at 2am and leave him until he was found dead at 6am, mixing these drugs together would of been fighting each other in his body causing all kinds of reactions in his body.
    They also gave him "ranitidine" this isnt even a drug approved for animals its called zantac, its for treating ulcers and stops the stops the stomach producing acid. Problem is no acid in the stomach means he can absorb drugs from his stomach and why give him this anyway. I could say more about these drugs but its easy to lok up and I could be forever explaining why I think these drugs shouldnt of been used, especially the IV fluids. I dont know what the post mortem report will have on it, its inconclusive but at least its done, and know they couldnt find anything wrong with him, Its obvious he didnt get the care he needed through negligence and mis conduct and was clearly misdiagnosed and his welfare suffered because of this, so thats all I can write or now I may not reply straight away it may even take a few day until ive got the autopsy report in hand and all the correct doses, hopefully they will tell me this when I ask tomorrow, so I think even when ive got all his information about his treatment and doses together there will be a long letter to the vets and RVC, making a complaint first, up until that time il keep seeking advice, if there is a case which im feeling there is then they need to be pursued as we are no longer living in 1966 and no animal deserves to be treated like it is.
    Originally posted by telboy82
    I'm so sorry your dog passed away.

    A lot of what you have written here is medically inaccurate, however.

    If this did get as far as court, an expert witness would absolutely rip this to shreds, I'm sorry.
    • telboy82
    • By telboy82 20th Apr 17, 3:44 PM
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    telboy82
    Firstly, pop up pirate, and gettingready, go elsewhere if your going to say im making it up as I go along, its an awful lot of effort to go through and still be going through if I were simply just making it up as I went along. I paid for the dog for a family member and was his carer as I lived in the same property untill I moved out and I adopted him as I left london. the vets he was registered at by the registered owner at the time who I bought the dog for were happy to keep him on even though we adopted him and moved out the area, even though its a charity vet, every vets prices are different and yes although I may have paid at slightly reduced rate than a full on private vet, I still pay for a service, I am in the process of finding vets to talk to about this, I do believe I have the right to an expert witness as well, and if after all the information has been discussed and they think differently about the situation, then we will see. But im still here im not going to go anywhere because anyone wants to say im making up a story.
    • LusciousLuce
    • By LusciousLuce 20th Apr 17, 5:45 PM
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    LusciousLuce
    In some ways I do hope you are able to get an expert opinion from a veterinary surgeon as maybe then you'll be able to accept what I and almost everyone else who has posted on this thread have been saying: that there is no case to answer and no evidence that the vet practice caused your dog's death, acted unprofessionally, disregarded his welfare, were negligent in his treatment, or any other of the numerous claims you've variously levelled at them.

    However, it is highly unlikely that any veterinary surgeon would be prepared to give their opinion on another vet's treatment unless compelled to do so. So ringing around other veterinary practices is unlikely to find you a willing vet I'm afraid. I think there's even something in the RCVS code of conduct about not bad mouthing fellow veterinary professionals.

    There are probably veterinary/medical negligence law firms out there who would be able to find a vet to act as an expert witness, but you'd have to pay for that.
    • gettingready
    • By gettingready 21st Apr 17, 2:27 AM
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    gettingready
    Firstly, pop up pirate, and gettingready, go elsewhere if your going to say im making it up as I go along, its an awful lot of effort to go through and still be going through
    Originally posted by telboy82

    Right, and instead of grieving for the dog you have lost - you spend so much time and effort looking for some vendetta
    • Pop Up Pirate
    • By Pop Up Pirate 21st Apr 17, 9:19 AM
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    Pop Up Pirate
    Firstly, pop up pirate, and gettingready, go elsewhere if your going to say im making it up as I go along, its an awful lot of effort to go through and still be going through if I were simply just making it up as I went along. I paid for the dog for a family member and was his carer as I lived in the same property untill I moved out and I adopted him as I left london. the vets he was registered at by the registered owner at the time who I bought the dog for were happy to keep him on even though we adopted him and moved out the area, even though its a charity vet, every vets prices are different and yes although I may have paid at slightly reduced rate than a full on private vet, I still pay for a service, I am in the process of finding vets to talk to about this, I do believe I have the right to an expert witness as well, and if after all the information has been discussed and they think differently about the situation, then we will see. But im still here im not going to go anywhere because anyone wants to say im making up a story.
    Originally posted by telboy82
    You started this thread with a fixation that your dog died because of the cage being too small.
    You went on and on about how your dog died due to being "scared to death".
    With any reasonable explanations that anyone has made or suggested, you've then embellished and added on information that 'supports' your frame of mind.

    You do not come across as reliable or truthful when relaying information on here. Instead you come across as emotional and unable to think clearly and rationally.
    • chookmom
    • By chookmom 26th Apr 17, 2:58 PM
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    chookmom
    Some people are so nasty and lacking in empathy.
    This person had lost a beloved pet suddenly and came on here distraught.
    Is it surprising that they come across as "emotional and unable to think clearly and rationally" in the immediate aftermath?
    It is clear as time has gone on that this is resolving.
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 27th Apr 17, 11:58 AM
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    gettingtheresometime
    Some people are so nasty and lacking in empathy.
    This person had lost a beloved pet suddenly and came on here distraught.
    Is it surprising that they come across as "emotional and unable to think clearly and rationally" in the immediate aftermath?
    It is clear as time has gone on that this is resolving.
    Originally posted by chookmom


    I don't often post on this board, except when beagle is being a complete ******* and need some advice (even after 6 yrs of having him) but I've always found this board to be helpful as well as showing empathy to others.


    In fact - and I'm not sure if its still a sticky anymore - but there was one thread where the sympathy shown to the owner was overwhelming and even years after it was started still sticks in my mind.


    Just saying
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


    Next on the list - the Argos Card!
    • LusciousLuce
    • By LusciousLuce 27th Apr 17, 11:26 PM
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    LusciousLuce
    I think most people here have expressed sympathy for the OP's loss. I can't imagine anyone would not feel that; after all, surely everyone here is a pet owner (can't think why else anyone would visit this section otherwise) and have likely experienced the heartbreak of losing a pet.

    If the OP had posted just to express his grief I'm sure he'd have been inundated with support and expressions of sympathy. But the purpose of his post was to say he thought the vet practice was to blame for his dog's death and to look for advice on that matter. Just because everyone reading and answering his post has disagreed with his stance does not equal a lack of empathy. That isn't what he was asking for.

    It's very very sad what happened and distressing for him because it was so sudden and couldn't have been anticipated. That does not mean someone has to be blamed, however.
    • Feral Moon
    • By Feral Moon 7th May 17, 5:46 PM
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    Feral Moon
    regarding the time difference of half an hour its not going to make much difference in the scheme of things.

    Have you a copy of the notes does it definitely read

    "last eaten this morning at 10 am after his meal"

    I wonder if the word sick has been left out and should read

    last eaten this morning at 10am sick after his meal

    This would be a big mistake but again is only relevant if this fact contributed to his passing, something which the autopsy will help to determine.
    Originally posted by iammumtoone
    Exactly this! And the missing word is irrelevant on computer notes as all staff handovers are done verbally, plus there are handwritten hospital notes attached to the cages listing treatments, observation, timings etc so nobody would have been in any doubt as to why the dog was in there.

    To the OP if a dog vomits its entire stomach contents then it is absolutely NOT bloat and withholding water following him being sick wasn't a very sensible thing to do (imagine how you would feel if you weren't allowed to drink hardly any water after being sick) and is what led to the dehydration and the need to be placed on fluid therapy.
    • Feral Moon
    • By Feral Moon 7th May 17, 6:16 PM
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    Feral Moon
    Ok sorry ive been away but one poster was right, within half a day of him dying I did come here worked up and upset blaming the vet, I apologize for this I should of waited I can understand how me coming here with such a subject and what I said would upset people, I promise that was never my intention, out of the shock and pain I needed people to talk, and hopefully find some find some guidance, I thank you all for your input and questions, some question are hard to answer so il try my best. Lets continue...

    Also yes the dog get did ill my care, I believe throwing up his breakfast was what made him il, no underlying issues what so ever were found, he was in my care for around 6 1/2 hours and his condition didnt deteriorate in that time, he was very thirsty and lethargic but because of being sick and not having enough water in his body, he hadnt drunk after his breakfast yet and not since the evening before, just the small amounts I was letting him have after being sick, as I said before I was giving him water which he was happy to drink but I didnt want to give him too much until the vet saw him, I didnt rush him to an emergency vet before this because of the trust at our vets and he wasnt deteriorating while I was watching him and letting him drink small amounts of water, so in my mind he was stable and fine just thirsty and lethargic from being sick, but wanted him checked over to make sure.
    But lets clear up about this money talk, I can raise and investigation with RVC and I intend to, this will cost me nothing, but from what I can find its very unlikely that will find any mis conduct at all as to be honest vets can literally get away with anything, and im sorry accidents happen isnt quite fair, If I did take the vets to court to claim all that im able to claim is what I paid or him, the cost of that treatment and his cremation, and any days holiday my wife has lost last week and this week if lucky, so in all it does not make sense to make a claim because if I lose and have to pay their fees it could cost me tens of thousands of pounds, has this scared me off? not yet, and this is exactly how and why nothing gets changed, I think the dogs welfare acts go back to 1966 and many people are trying to get it updated.

    I believe which most likely can never be confirmed is that after he was sick bringing up his entire breakfast which also emptied his stomach of any remaining water in the food,cause a reaction called "Hypernatraemia", now this is caused by a water and sodium imbalance, this can be caused by a dog licking table salt which raise his levels of sodium which is dangerous and needs water fluids to correct the balance.
    My dog i believe had a water im balance from being sick, this also happens when a dog has diarrhea and loses lots of water, they need the balance correcting, either by removing sodium from the animal or adding water, firstly by offering water orally if its the water they need, i they cant drink then water solution 5% dextrose or similar but its water.
    So after telling the vet he had been sick his whole breakfast and and only had small amounts of water, and you can clearly see his thirsty and ive told them his thirsty, id assume even they would conclude the dog needs water regardless and should of been considered, thats what they treated him for last time, water loss.
    So if there are any vets on here id like them to answer this, if you know a dog has no water and been sick all his meal would assume of your extensive costly training that my dog needed more water in his body or more salt? in fact I bet from that information alone even some the other readers here would say he needed water, just an assumption, also lets not forget that when administering IV fluids its important to get the correct fluid or you will not help matters just make them worse causing more serious injuries and pain and death, now before using these fluids you are supposed to carry out the standard blood tests and most importantly the Biochemistry Profile test that all vets carry out, this test is easy to and is vital it can pin point where to treat an animal most times and also tells you all the body chemical levels like Salt etc, this test would o said if my dog needed water or salt, it would of told them enough to sae my dog im sure.
    Well the form says a "Biochemistry not available as blood machine unable to read sample when pcv too high".
    Seriously they they are saying no reading because he had too many red blood sell, thats a joke right, there machine couldnt get a blood reading, that is a very important piece o equipment i cant understand how it cant get a reading. This test has a extremly high this is what is said about this simple basic test:

    Description: The serum chemistry profile is one of the most important initial tests that is commonly performed. A blood sample is collected from the patient. The blood is then separated into a cell layer and serum layer by spinning the sample at high speeds in a machine called a centrifuge. The serum layer is drawn off and a variety of compounds are then measured. These measurements aid in assessing the function of various organs and body systems.
    Diagnostic Value: Very high. Sometimes a specific diagnosis may be made on the basis of a blood chemistry profile alone. More often than not, however, the profile provides information on a variety of body organs and systems, giving the doctor an indication of where a problem might be located. The profile can be extremely helpful in determining which of the many other diagnostic tests might be beneficial.
    Risks to Patient: Virtually none, provided that the blood is collected under sterile conditions by a trained professional.
    Relative Cost: Relatively low when a group of test are run as one panel.


    So anyway ok the machine doesnt work so she had to make a decision on fluids to use, not try a bowl of water first, going back over everything that she clearly didnt listen tome she made the clever decision to put him on fluids anyway.
    He is given fluids to correct his imbalance they are two 1litre bags are " Aqupharm no1" which is sodium chloride "NaCl high rate" its safe to say he wasnt getting his water and that sodium overload was of caused him much pain even death.

    Lets talk about pain, so to sedate my dog they used a opium based painkiller called "Vetergesic" my dog has never had this, this wasnt to relieve pain it was to sedate him, why not use a mild sedative, this drug is very strong look it up vets having been causing animal deaths all over the country with this drug, its opium based and very addictive from the first use, most dogs ive read about get one injection and hit the deck struggling to breath and move some get put down not long after some takes weeks to recover and never quite the same, my dog had 6 injections at east on his form I just need to get the total doses, also these opium type drugs should not be mixed so after having all this one type of opioid drug a fair amount of it why inject him with a different type of opioid drug "Methadome" at 2am and leave him until he was found dead at 6am, mixing these drugs together would of been fighting each other in his body causing all kinds of reactions in his body.
    They also gave him "ranitidine" this isnt even a drug approved for animals its called zantac, its for treating ulcers and stops the stops the stomach producing acid. Problem is no acid in the stomach means he can absorb drugs from his stomach and why give him this anyway. I could say more about these drugs but its easy to lok up and I could be forever explaining why I think these drugs shouldnt of been used, especially the IV fluids. I dont know what the post mortem report will have on it, its inconclusive but at least its done, and know they couldnt find anything wrong with him, Its obvious he didnt get the care he needed through negligence and mis conduct and was clearly misdiagnosed and his welfare suffered because of this, so thats all I can write or now I may not reply straight away it may even take a few day until ive got the autopsy report in hand and all the correct doses, hopefully they will tell me this when I ask tomorrow, so I think even when ive got all his information about his treatment and doses together there will be a long letter to the vets and RVC, making a complaint first, up until that time il keep seeking advice, if there is a case which im feeling there is then they need to be pursued as we are no longer living in 1966 and no animal deserves to be treated like it is.
    Originally posted by telboy82


    This post highlights fantastically how Google can be a dangerous tool in the hands of the uneducated.
    • Feral Moon
    • By Feral Moon 7th May 17, 6:39 PM
    • 2,681 Posts
    • 3,891 Thanks
    Feral Moon
    because I was worried about possible bloat after him being sick, I didnt restrict the dogs water, i used to not put any down during or straight after his meals for about an hour each day if a big dog drinks water just after its meals it can get bloat, thats why id restrict his water, other than that he drunk plenty through out the day. And that is advised to do on this breed and others. so taking his water away at meal times for and hour just over is not a bad thing to do at all, ask any vet. It wasnt restricted it like your making it sound, you make it sound like i wasnt giving him any, he drunk quite a bit of water while with me but he didnt want to stop so i had to keep restricting him, 6 and 1/2 hours is a long time to watch a thirsty dog, should i of let him get bloat for sure by letting him gulp down water and air continuesly because of his brought on thirst from being sick, no, I should of handled it carefully like i did.
    Originally posted by telboy82
    1) if he threw up all his breakfast then he DIDN'T have bloat. Dry wretching or small amounts of frothy liquid are indicative of bloat. When a dog has bloat it's stomach becomes twisted (gastric torsion) restricting blood supply, hence why it's a medical emergency. If the vet even so much as suspected a case of bloat you'd have been asked to come in immediately and, in the meantime, the nurses would be prepping theatre awaiting your arrival.

    The fact you were asked to come in later that day for a normal consultation just shows there was no urgent need to be seen. It's not unusual for dogs to vomit shortly after eating, especially when they have no access to water (most dogs who vomit up an entire meal will just go on to re-eat it anyway) and you've indication this has happened previously.

    2) removing access to water at any time is not a good idea. It's excessive drinking/gulping following a meal which can cause problems so just limit the amount of water available at meal times but don't remove it completely.

    Dogs are more likely to get bloat from eating a large meal of dry food (especially a high grain food) once a day, exercising or running around shortly after eating, eating/drinking from raised bowls and stress.
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