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  • FIRST POST
    • raselmahbub
    • By raselmahbub 2nd Apr 17, 9:00 PM
    • 44Posts
    • 15Thanks
    raselmahbub
    CPM ticket while parked at the allocated parking
    • #1
    • 2nd Apr 17, 9:00 PM
    CPM ticket while parked at the allocated parking 2nd Apr 17 at 9:00 PM
    I recently moved into a flat. At the time of handover I was not told or given any parking permit to display in my car. The car park is a secured garage (requires a key fob to enter) and the parking bay is also numbered same as my flat. The only thing I was told that there is an allocated parking underground and its marked with your flat's number.

    There are lots of signages around and inside the garage, but I had no reason to stop and read those writings because a) I have rented a flat in this property which comes with a grage b) I am entering into a secured garage with a key which came to me with rental agreement of this property and c) even the bay I was parking, is marked with my flat number.

    Anyway, recently, two months after moving into the property, I received a PCN.

    I phoned my letting agency and emailed them the PCN. They came back and said that, they spoke to CPM and trying to mitigate the issue but since the vehicle is under my name I have to appeal the PCN my self. And also in the mean time they are arranging a permit for me. Moreover the agency lady (property manager) wrote the appeal letter for me.

    I then just printed the letter off and posted it to CPM. They rejected it. I contacted the agency back again and they are now asking me to pay the fine!

    The Appeal Letter:
    To whom this may concern,
    I am writing to you as I am a resident at the property xxxxxxxxxxxxx and I wish to appeal a parking fine I received as I have resided here since 00/00/00 and did not receive a permit upon me moving into the property and since been made aware that a permit is required to park in my allocated space.
    I have now purchased a permit and this should be arriving in the next 3 days as advised by my managing agent that this is what I require to have.
    Please could you advise my position on this as I should not be responsible to pay this fine in my residential parking space solely for my use as an occupier of a flat in the Courtyard.
    The reference number is: XXXXX
    Vehicle registration: XXXXX
    I look forward to hearing from you.

    CPM rejected it on the ground of there are enough notices everywhere in the garage and it was my responsibility to be aware of the parking rules.
    They are also asking me to pay £100 since the appeal was done after the 14 day period.

    Based on the facts above, can someone please advice my available options.
    Many thanks
Page 5
    • raselmahbub
    • By raselmahbub 22nd Sep 17, 11:47 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    raselmahbub
    Received the DQ from Gladstone today. Same old format... no mediation and requesting the judgement on paper including a N159 form.

    Even though it is mentioned everywhere in this forum what to do next... I just wanted to double check my next steps with you guys one more time..

    - Wait for the DQ form from Court.
    - Once received, fill out the form as instructed by bargepole (sticky).
    - In the mean time start preparing the WS and Skeleton Arg.

    @Coupon-mad, just an idea - is it possible to create a sticky for all complete cases where posters will update the outcome of the case. For example, I can just go there and update my situation like:
    • Type of Issue: PCN at allocated space in Residential Parking
    • Issuer/Claiment: UKCPM
    • Claiments Solicitor: Gladstone
    • Ticket Issue date: 08/02/2017
    • Court hearing: TBC
    • Outcome: TBC
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Sep 17, 12:04 AM
    • 51,709 Posts
    • 65,352 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Unfortunately, we aren't allowed any more sticky threads and we got 'special agreement' to have the two we have ('NEWBIES FAQS' and 'POPLA Decisions') when other boards here are only allowed one!

    If your N180 DQ doesn't arrive by this time next week, download it from HM Courts (Google for the form).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • raselmahbub
    • By raselmahbub 17th Oct 17, 10:27 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    raselmahbub
    Quick update...
    Received the Notice of Transfer of Proceedings to my local court yesterday.

    And a quick question..
    How long do I have before the final hearing..
    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 18th Oct 17, 2:36 AM
    • 332 Posts
    • 327 Thanks
    claxtome
    How long do I have before the final hearing.
    In my experience there will be a further court letter which will answer that.
    • raselmahbub
    • By raselmahbub 27th Oct 17, 12:03 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    raselmahbub
    New development ... another Court letter today and expecting another one in few days.

    OK... to my surprise I received another Court letter today.

    Quick Recap:
    Believe you still remember that the agency never provided me the parking permit when I moved into the flat and I only became aware of this when I received the parking ticket. I started parking my car in my allocated parking from the beginning of January'17. The only parking ticket I found stuck on the windscreen was on 08/02/17 and since then I have been fighting this ticket with the help of this amazing forum and the experts.

    It was my mistake not to read through the reference numbers and date of notice etc in all the letters came through the door. In my mind all the letters were for 08/02/17. I even submitted my Defence mentioning the same date.

    Checked all the letters today and it turns out that letters issued by DRP was for 3 different dates and references 27/01, 03/02 and 08/02.

    And surprisingly, I never found/received any ticket in my car prior to 08/02. The car park is a secured underground residential garage and also I use my car everyday to commute to work which means its sort of impossible to be missed.

    Additionally the only letter received from UKCPM on 29/03 (prior to receiving all the DRP letters) was in reference to 08/02.

    So the last Court letter was actually for 27/01, today's one is for 03/02 and I believe there will be another one for 08/02.

    23/12/16 - Moved into the property.
    08/02/17 - Found the sticker.
    09/02/17 - Emailed Agency of the issue.
    24/02/17 - Appeal letter to UKCPM
    15/03/17 - Appeal rejected by UKCPM with 28 days notice
    29/03/17- Letter from UKCPM (Formal Demand) to pay for the ticket issued 08/02/17 with pictures.
    04/04/17 - DRP Letter- Parking charge date - 27/01
    20/04/17 - DRP Letter- Parking charge date - 27/01
    28/04/17 - DRP Letter- Parking charge date - 03/02
    02/05/17 - DRP Letter- Parking charge date - 03/02
    04/05/17 - DRP Letter- Parking charge date - 27/01
    17/05/17 - DRP Letter- Parking charge date - 03/02
    25/05/17 - DRP Letter- Parking charge date - 08/02
    01/06/17 - DRP Letter- Parking charge date - 03/02
    05/06/17 - GS Letter - Parking Charge reference - 27/01
    09/06/17 - DRP Letter- Parking charge date - 03/02
    25/06/17 - DRP Letter- Parking charge date - 08/02
    11/07/17 - GS Letter - Parking Charge reference - 03/02
    25/07/17 - GS Letter Before Claim - Parking Charge reference - 27/01
    14/08/17 - Court Letter - Parking Charge reference - 27/01
    25/07/17 - GS Letter - Parking Charge reference - 08/02
    29/09/17 - GS Letter Before Claim - Parking Charge reference - 03/02
    26/10/17 - Court Letter - Parking Charge reference - 03/02

    Notice the only letter I received from UKCPM was in reference to the charge on 08/02.

    What do I do now?
    Last edited by raselmahbub; 27-10-2017 at 12:09 AM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Oct 17, 12:31 AM
    • 51,709 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    Did you ever get a Letter before Claim for the one dated 8/2? At all?

    When you say ''court letter'' do you mean another (new) claim form?

    Assuming so, you will need to defend this one - same as before - except adding that:

    - Gladstones have failed to comply with the new pre-action protocol (debt claims) for this new claim number xxxxxxx because they failed to provide any of the required documentation and evidence and information, as set out in the new CPR for such claims after 1st October 2017.

    - Gladstones are well aware that there is a claim already in place regarding exactly the same sort of charge, dealing with essentially the same facts. As such, ask the court to use its case management powers to either strike out this second claim as an abuse of court process, or require that the claims are merged to reduce the burden on court time, and costs to the Defendant.

    - The Defendant was unaware that there are apparently three 'PCNs' because only one PCN and Notice to Keeper was ever served by UKCPM. All three charges should be included in one single claim and you ask the court to provide a suitable order to require Gladstones to re-file just one claim for all these identical charges, after providing you with all appropriate evidence now required for such debt claims.


    Meanwhile I would email Gladstones, telling them that their correspondence, and that of their Client and the Debt Collector, has been so vague that you have never had any idea that UKCPM are purporting to have issued three PCNs. Only one PCN was seen on the car (and this was appealed) but further, only one Notice to Keeper was served for that single PCN. No other PCN nor any other NTK was served. The only clue that there may have been more than one PCN is seen only now, by scrutinising the minutiae of detail in the references/dates in the Debt Recovery Plus letters, which you understood were pure harassment and believed all related to the single PCN you had appealed.

    Tell them that this second claim is the first you knew that UKCPM were alleging there was more than one PCN and that you have asked the court in your defence to use their case management powers to merge the claims, or have them heard together as one case, or strike one out as a duplicate of essentially the same matter.

    Tell Gladstones they should have filed only one single claim for all three PCNs and that if they now throw a third claim form at you, this vexatious and wholly unreasonable conduct will be drawn to the attention of the Court and will be referenced in terms of your costs, when you prevail.

    Show them the lease (again) where it shows you have a right to that parking space with no caveats or charges.

    And finish by copying from another letter written on pretty much any other defence thread this week, where it talks about the new pre-action protocol for claims from 1st October 2017 and how Gladstones have FAILED. Search the forum for '1st October protocol Gladstones' (or similar) to find ones just written this week, to crib from!

    As ever, show us what you come up with. It will take a bit of time to read & put together, but this fight is worth it.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 27-10-2017 at 12:36 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • raselmahbub
    • By raselmahbub 27th Oct 17, 1:11 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    raselmahbub
    Thank you very much CM.

    Did you ever get a Letter before Claim for the one dated 8/2? At all?
    Not yet. But I am expecting one soon followed by a claim form!

    When you say ''court letter'' do you mean another (new) claim form?
    Yes.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Oct 17, 1:16 AM
    • 51,709 Posts
    • 65,352 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    OK start by reading up on the new pre-action protocol for debt claims, as set out in lots of threads already. Read other threads from this week, we've covered a lot of ground re emails to Gladstones and emails to the CCBC asking for an order.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • raselmahbub
    • By raselmahbub 27th Oct 17, 1:27 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    raselmahbub
    Am I going to email the CCBC as well?
    I thought I just need to email GS and submit the AOS then Defense etc as I did for the first one.
    And include all the points you mentioned in the Defense.

    How do I ask CCBC for an order?
    Last edited by raselmahbub; 27-10-2017 at 1:30 AM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Oct 17, 1:29 AM
    • 51,709 Posts
    • 65,352 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I would email the CCBC too asking for an order to strike out duplicate claims or order that the cases are heard together and treated as one case.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • completelyfubar
    • By completelyfubar 27th Oct 17, 10:10 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    completelyfubar
    Same boat
    I am in the exact same boat with a second claim (UKCPM/GS) just appearing (see my post history) so would love to have some input on constructing an email to the CCBC.
    • raselmahbub
    • By raselmahbub 29th Oct 17, 12:44 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    raselmahbub
    @completelyfubar, I have just done my AOS. Nothing else yet.
    Are you writing to GS as well? If you have already started something, would also appreciate any help.

    @Coupon-mad, you suggested to include 1st Octobers's pre-action protocol in the letter to Gladstone. But the letter they sent to me dated 29th September.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 29th Oct 17, 7:55 AM
    • 15,886 Posts
    • 24,632 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    @Coupon-mad, you suggested to include 1st Octobers's pre-action protocol in the letter to Gladstone. But the letter they sent to me dated 29th September.
    AIUI (IANAL) as your case is ongoing, now the new pre-action protocol (PaP) is in place, you are entitled to its assistance.

    Whatever the situation is in reality, I’d still fire off that letter, as per CM’s advice, and apply the pressure. Let them come back with reasons why they won’t provide the information required. You might argue that if they are simply hiding behind a mere date, they must have something to hide!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • raselmahbub
    • By raselmahbub 2nd Nov 17, 10:11 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    raselmahbub
    Below are the letters..any advise will highly be appreciated.

    Letter to GS:
    Dear Sirs,
    I am writing in reference to your recent letter before claim dated 29/09/2017 (ref: xxxxx) followed by a claim no XXXXX.

    I am really surprised and shocked receiving a second claim form in reference to a parking charge for which I never received either a PCN or NTK.

    All the correspondences from your side, your Client and the Debt Collector, has been so vague that I have never had any idea that UKCPM are purporting to have issued three PCNs.

    Only one PCN was seen on the car (and this was appealed) but further, only one Notice to Keeper was served for that single PCN. No other PCN or NTK was served.

    The only clue that there may have been more than one PCN is seen only now, by scrutinising the minutiae of detail in the references/dates in the Debt Recovery Plus letters, which I understand are pure harassment and believe all related to the single PCN I have appealed.

    This second claim is the first I realized that UKCPM are alleging there was more than one PCN and I am going to ask the court in my defence to use their case management powers to merge the claims, or have them heard together as one case, or strike other ones out as a duplicate of essentially the same matter.

    Gladstone should have filed only one single claim for all three PCNs and if I now receive a third claim form, this vexatious and wholly unreasonable conduct will be drawn to the attention of the Court and will be referenced in terms of costs, when I prevail.

    As I have already mentioned in my previous Defence, I am the lawful tenant of the property xxxxxxxxxxx and the property comes with an allocated parking space. I am authorised to park in that parking bay as part of my Tenancy Agreement, which makes no reference to parking permits or any third parties.

    Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2.

    It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol. Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the new Protocol.

    Yours etc
    ======================================
    Letter to CCBC:
    Dear Sirs,
    This letter is in reference to the claim form no XXXXX.
    I already have a Claim xxxxxxx in progress from the same claimant for which I have submitted my defence on xxxx.
    I am really surprised and shocked receiving a second claim form in reference to a parking charge for which I never received either a PCN or NTK.
    All the correspondences from claimant’s side, has been so vague that I have never had any idea that UKCPM are purporting to have issued three PCNs.

    Only one PCN was seen on the car (and this was appealed) but further, only one Notice to Keeper was served for that single PCN. No other PCN or NTK was served.

    The only clue that there may have been more than one PCN is seen only now, by scrutinising the minutiae of detail in the references/dates in the Debt Recovery Plus letters, which I understand are pure harassment and believe all related to the single PCN I have appealed.
    Gladstone should have filed only one single claim for all PCNs and it appears that now I am going to receive a third claim.

    Gladstones are well aware that there is a claim already in place regarding exactly the same sort of charge, dealing with essentially the same facts and should have filed only one single claim for all PCN. As such, I request the Court to use its case management power to either strike out this second claim as an abuse of court process, or require that the claims are merged to reduce the burden on court time, and costs to the Defendant.

    Yours etc
    Last edited by raselmahbub; 03-11-2017 at 12:29 AM.
    • raselmahbub
    • By raselmahbub 6th Nov 17, 8:05 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    raselmahbub
    I guess the letters are OK and that's why no response at all!
    • raselmahbub
    • By raselmahbub 14th Nov 17, 11:10 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    raselmahbub
    Update...

    Posted the Defence and the letter to GS today. Also attached the letter to ccbc with the Defence.

    Also received a letter from the local court confirming the hearing of the first case.

    Quick question. Shall I send the same letter (letter to ccbc) to the local court/Judge?
    • completelyfubar
    • By completelyfubar 15th Nov 17, 7:23 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    completelyfubar
    I'm going to be sending my letter to the Judge at the Court as per the letter mentioned on my thread.
    I also just wrote the same detail into the email to CCBC and attached my 2nd defence.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 15th Nov 17, 7:51 AM
    • 1,144 Posts
    • 1,173 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    I dont see hamr in sending to the judge at your court. Youre asking sensibly for all three cases to be combined - as no chance thye will strike it out.
    • moin214
    • By moin214 16th Nov 17, 2:46 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    moin214
    Land lord lease document website
    I believe its the landlord lease document that you would need to get a copy. ultimately to produce in the court.

    you should be able to obtain a copy for 50 pounds at this site. (I believe the costs can be claimed when u win the case )

    landregistryservice.uk/services/land-registry-title-deeds

    The document you are looking for is Registered Lease.
    • raselmahbub
    • By raselmahbub 30th Nov 17, 1:31 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    raselmahbub
    There is a little bit of problem with my WS.

    Just a quick reminder this WS is for the first defence I submitted prior to receiving the second claim form when I became aware that they are actually after 3 PCN. I never received PCNs or NTKs for the first two charges. ON the other hand the defence I submitted was actually for a date I have not received the Claim Form yet. The dates are also wrong as I thought it was for the parking charge which I had the PCN.

    Now the problem is, how do I put all these in the WS. Am I even allowed to do this i.e. putting new points in WS which I did not mention in the defense?

    I am still waiting for the DQ for the second defence and yet to receive a claim form for which I actually have had a PCN!

    I am sure you will point me to the right direction.
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