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  • FIRST POST
    • Hbeard
    • By Hbeard 31st Mar 17, 1:14 PM
    • 37Posts
    • 13Thanks
    Hbeard
    Funeral Attendance/Work
    • #1
    • 31st Mar 17, 1:14 PM
    Funeral Attendance/Work 31st Mar 17 at 1:14 PM
    Hello MSE Forum,

    I come once again to ask advice from you all.

    My manager recently passed away, only 54 - far too young!

    The next manager in line who I now report to (lets call him Super Cuddly Uniformed Man) did not tell me of my managers passing, I had to find out from a colleague.

    His funeral is on Monday at 11am. S.C.U.M, asked if myself or my colleague would like to attend the funeral. We both indicated that we would. This happened a few weeks ago.

    Today, my manager contacted my colleague to ask if he still wants to attend, my colleague declined. I was not contacted and asked the same. When I directly emailed and asked, I was told it wouldn't be possible as we are both required to be at work on Monday. If this is the case, why was my colleague contacted today and asked if he still wanted to go?

    What I want to know good people of MSE, is do I have any options here regarding complaints via my companies HR Department. Its no secret that SCUM does not like me and has tried to have me fired on numerous occasions, my old manager prevented this from happening. Currently, I am doing my old managers job (the 4th time I have been in this position with this company) and we are not being told if there any plans to replace him. I am the next logical choice, but will not be offered the job because of SCUM's issues with me. I have other small examples of favouritism, disrespect etc from SCUM, but nothing particularly concrete.

    I am wondering if I have an option to be either reassigned to a different department, or have the manager changed due to his obvious personal issues with me.

    Any info is appreciated, thanks for taking the time to read my post!
    Last edited by Hbeard; 31-03-2017 at 3:00 PM.
Page 2
    • jondav
    • By jondav 6th Apr 17, 10:07 AM
    • 498 Posts
    • 337 Thanks
    jondav
    I take your point and its very fairly made, but its inconsequential now anyway. Its now only a matter of time before I'm let go, he'll just be looking for a loophole to use to oust me from my position, if its this, then so be it. He hasn't done anything unlawful, he's not that stupid, he's just very very bad at his job.




    I have applied for numerous other roles, even been successful with one or 2, but at those times it didn't make a lot of sense financially to leave. My manager only passed recently and I had planned on trying to have a meeting with the Manager who is causing me the problems to just level with him and try to create a better working relationship, he has made it clear that this is not an option.

    The real frustration comes from the fact that I am good at my job and the majority of staff I work with on a regular basis are aware of this and have been very supportive of not only my continued employment but my succession to the managers role. The personal issue's that aforementioned Manager has means that it will never be an option.




    I had a great working relationship with him, he was a very good manager and I learned a lot from him in a short space of time. I was signed off last year with a Hernia and the day after I returned to work, he was signed off with a heart condition, one that would eventually take his life. I never actually got to see him again after my Hernia Op and that still bothers me. Not being allowed to go to his funeral was a very deliberate act, one that was designed to upset and cause stress, I believe that 100%.



    Its par for the course with the anonymous nature of the internet

    There's some definite wisdom in what you're suggesting but unfortunately the structure of the company I work for wont allow me to do as you suggest. The staff who manage the contract I work on are all from other parts of the business and have zero interest in developing the staff on this contract, I am not the only person to be a victim of this sadly. This means I have no one I can report to above my manager who will do anything to assist me. I have definite evidence of unprofessional conduct and poor management, plus the testimonials of a number of colleagues who all agree that the business with my managers funeral was diabolical, but sadly as others have pointed out, nothing that's legally binding or unlawful.

    To be clear, the people who DID attend my managers funeral were nearly all staff from upper management who had never actually worked with him, including the manager I have issues with. I was not allowed to attend as both myself and my colleague were required to be at work, despite there being nothing for us to do because almost all the rest of the staff we work with were at the Funeral. Its bogus and its unprofessional and highlights exactly the kind of creature he is.

    Thanks to all who have provided constructive solutions/ideas. Life's a !!!!! sometimes and you just got to roll with the punches.
    Originally posted by Hbeard
    I don't really have any advice I'm afraid but from what I have read, this particular manager sounds terrible and the company as a whole not much better.

    You however come across as an intelligent and empathetic person (I don't know you of course, I'm assuming from your posts ), so whatever happens, just keep in mind that you are a better person than said manager.
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 6th Apr 17, 6:44 PM
    • 1,476 Posts
    • 703 Thanks
    Mersey
    I'm frankly amazed by some of the responses on here.


    Whilst it's true that there is no automatic ie statutory right to paid leave to attend a funeral, most employers do offer either a contractual right (usually for family members, etc) - or unpaid leave for neighbours and close friends.


    Check the staff handbook for compassionate leave and so on.


    I'm also aware of a Tribunal decision where the discrimination included where one of the elements was that a manager had allowed one team member to attend a funeral but not another.


    I don't know the size of the firm, but a polite email to HR or a Director should at least mean you know for certain. I'd be amazed if they refuse to allow even unpaid leave to attend a former work colleague's funeral.


    Indeed where this happened recently at my OH's workplace, they closed as a mark of respect and so that they could all attend the funeral [although I realise this won't be the case in al sectors]
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 6th Apr 17, 7:59 PM
    • 17,418 Posts
    • 13,068 Thanks
    agrinnall
    I'm frankly amazed by some of the responses on here.


    Whilst it's true that there is no automatic ie statutory right to paid leave to attend a funeral, most employers do offer either a contractual right (usually for family members, etc) - or unpaid leave for neighbours and close friends.


    Check the staff handbook for compassionate leave and so on.


    I'm also aware of a Tribunal decision where the discrimination included where one of the elements was that a manager had allowed one team member to attend a funeral but not another.


    I don't know the size of the firm, but a polite email to HR or a Director should at least mean you know for certain. I'd be amazed if they refuse to allow even unpaid leave to attend a former work colleague's funeral.


    Indeed where this happened recently at my OH's workplace, they closed as a mark of respect and so that they could all attend the funeral [although I realise this won't be the case in al sectors]
    Originally posted by Mersey
    The funeral has already happened so this is moot for this particular case.
    • Hbeard
    • By Hbeard 13th Apr 17, 8:07 AM
    • 37 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Hbeard
    As an addition to this query, what are the laws concerning holiday/annual leave? I have now submitted 4 requests for annual leave and all of them have been rejected, no reason given. I am desperately trying to find a new job, how can I get one when I am being consistently denied the opportunity to take time off for interviews with potential employers and agencies?

    If I resign, I lose the right to sign on for JSA (if that's what its called now), If I get fired that goes down on my permanent record, so I appear to be stuck? Am I missing something?

    I figured I'd ask here rather then start another new thread.,once again, really apreciate any info or advice people can give.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 13th Apr 17, 9:11 AM
    • 2,770 Posts
    • 2,509 Thanks
    Undervalued
    As an addition to this query, what are the laws concerning holiday/annual leave? I have now submitted 4 requests for annual leave and all of them have been rejected, no reason given. I am desperately trying to find a new job, how can I get one when I am being consistently denied the opportunity to take time off for interviews with potential employers and agencies?

    If I resign, I lose the right to sign on for JSA (if that's what its called now), If I get fired that goes down on my permanent record, so I appear to be stuck? Am I missing something?

    I figured I'd ask here rather then start another new thread.,once again, really apreciate any info or advice people can give.
    Originally posted by Hbeard
    The laws are very simple but sadly not what you want to hear!

    You are entitled to 28 days (5.6 weeks) leave per year but your employer can totally dictate when you can and cannot take it. So it would be perfectly lawful for an employer to close for 5.6 weeks per year and allow no other leave whatsoever. OK, they might struggle to recruit and retain staff.....
    • Hbeard
    • By Hbeard 19th Apr 17, 2:35 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Hbeard
    The laws are very simple but sadly not what you want to hear!

    You are entitled to 28 days (5.6 weeks) leave per year but your employer can totally dictate when you can and cannot take it. So it would be perfectly lawful for an employer to close for 5.6 weeks per year and allow no other leave whatsoever. OK, they might struggle to recruit and retain staff.....
    Originally posted by Undervalued
    Does this mean that they can essentially never allow me to take my leave? If I have an interview, do I have no right to attend that?
    • London50
    • By London50 19th Apr 17, 3:00 PM
    • 1,443 Posts
    • 1,348 Thanks
    London50
    As stated you are entitled to 28 days holiday but the management can choose when you can take it. You have every right to go to an interview BUT if it is not in the days/dates directed by your management then it could be either unpaid leave or unlawful absences that could go on your record.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 19th Apr 17, 4:29 PM
    • 2,770 Posts
    • 2,509 Thanks
    Undervalued
    Does this mean that they can essentially never allow me to take my leave? If I have an interview, do I have no right to attend that?
    Originally posted by Hbeard
    No and no.

    They must let you take your leave at some point during the year. However, worst case that could be a 28 day block that they choose and no other time off at all!

    You have no specific right to time off to attend an interview (unless you are being made redundant). So booking a day off for that purpose is no different from booking a day off for a funeral or anything else. The employer is quite entitled to say no and insist you only take leave when it suits them.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 19th Apr 17, 4:34 PM
    • 2,770 Posts
    • 2,509 Thanks
    Undervalued
    As stated you are entitled to 28 days holiday but the management can choose when you can take it. You have every right to go to an interview BUT if it is not in the days/dates directed by your management then it could be either unpaid leave or unlawful absences that could go on your record.
    Originally posted by London50
    Just to add there is no right to unpaid leave other than "short" periods for "emergency" situations involving dependents. The law doesn't define short or emergency but the general interpretation is enough time to arrange care but not time to do the caring yourself.

    Virtually all employers are actually more flexible about this and holiday booking than the minimum legal requirement. However how much flexibility varies enormously.
    • London50
    • By London50 19th Apr 17, 4:55 PM
    • 1,443 Posts
    • 1,348 Thanks
    London50
    Just to add there is no right to unpaid leave other than "short" periods for "emergency" situations involving dependents. The law doesn't define short or emergency but the general interpretation is enough time to arrange care but not time to do the caring yourself.

    Virtually all employers are actually more flexible about this and holiday booking than the minimum legal requirement. However how much flexibility varies enormously.
    Originally posted by Undervalued
    I totally agree with what you are saying but the OP either wants someone on here to state that the company they work for are wrong with the company rules or cannot understand the basics of the set 28 holiday days law.
    All companies I have worked for gave the holiday rules and you either excepted them or moved on,If the OP is not happy with the company policy then perhaps it is time to try and find one that suits
    • foxtrotoscar
    • By foxtrotoscar 19th Apr 17, 10:28 PM
    • 941 Posts
    • 1,350 Thanks
    foxtrotoscar
    Looking over the OP's posting history is an interesting read work wise.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 20th Apr 17, 8:00 AM
    • 28,394 Posts
    • 16,978 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Hello MSE Forum,

    I come once again to ask advice from you all.

    My manager recently passed away, only 54 - far too young!

    The next manager in line who I now report to (lets call him Super Cuddly Uniformed Man) did not tell me of my managers passing, I had to find out from a colleague.

    His funeral is on Monday at 11am. S.C.U.M, asked if myself or my colleague would like to attend the funeral. We both indicated that we would. This happened a few weeks ago.

    Today, my manager contacted my colleague to ask if he still wants to attend, my colleague declined. I was not contacted and asked the same. When I directly emailed and asked, I was told it wouldn't be possible as we are both required to be at work on Monday. If this is the case, why was my colleague contacted today and asked if he still wanted to go?

    What I want to know good people of MSE, is do I have any options here regarding complaints via my companies HR Department. Its no secret that SCUM does not like me and has tried to have me fired on numerous occasions, my old manager prevented this from happening. Currently, I am doing my old managers job (the 4th time I have been in this position with this company) and we are not being told if there any plans to replace him. I am the next logical choice, but will not be offered the job because of SCUM's issues with me. I have other small examples of favouritism, disrespect etc from SCUM, but nothing particularly concrete.

    I am wondering if I have an option to be either reassigned to a different department, or have the manager changed due to his obvious personal issues with me.

    Any info is appreciated, thanks for taking the time to read my post!
    Originally posted by Hbeard
    a little late to this, but I see the post/incident was the Friday before the Funeral on the Monday.

    The error was emailing the manager that they don't get on with.

    Should have just kept quiet and planned to go as agreed, if local it would only be a couple of hours anyway.

    seems a bit of anger/frustration stopped the OP thinking.
    • Hbeard
    • By Hbeard 20th Apr 17, 12:34 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Hbeard
    I totally agree with what you are saying but the OP either wants someone on here to state that the company they work for are wrong with the company rules or cannot understand the basics of the set 28 holiday days law.
    All companies I have worked for gave the holiday rules and you either excepted them or moved on,If the OP is not happy with the company policy then perhaps it is time to try and find one that suits
    Originally posted by London50
    I am not looking for that at all, I wanted to make sure that I understood the basics before I act. The holiday rules were given when I started, and previously the company have operated as any other regarding holiday, it is only recently that my my leave started to be rejected for spurious reasons.

    Looking over the OP's posting history is an interesting read work wise.
    Originally posted by foxtrotoscar
    Its been an interesting company to try and work for.

    a little late to this, but I see the post/incident was the Friday before the Funeral on the Monday.

    The error was emailing the manager that they don't get on with.

    Should have just kept quiet and planned to go as agreed, if local it would only be a couple of hours anyway.

    seems a bit of anger/frustration stopped the OP thinking.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    The manager in question asked my colleague if he would like to attend on the Friday, when he declined, the same offer was not made to me. My colleague informed me we had to attend work on Monday and I emailed to confirm this. Had I gone to funeral I would have been disciplined for not attending work.
    Last edited by Hbeard; 20-04-2017 at 12:41 PM.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 20th Apr 17, 12:58 PM
    • 28,394 Posts
    • 16,978 Thanks
    getmore4less
    You said I your first post you had already been ask and said you wanted to go.

    Untill your boss told you different should have stuck to that.
    • Hbeard
    • By Hbeard 5th May 17, 4:26 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Hbeard
    You said I your first post you had already been ask and said you wanted to go.

    Untill your boss told you different should have stuck to that.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    If I had attended I would have been given a verbal warning. Essentially, I would have been allowed to go as the last communication would have been mu confirmation of attendance, however, based on existing experience with said Manager, I would have been given a warning regardless. This has happened on other occasions with different circumstances.

    Its a moot point now as the Funeral has come and gone, I have now (very luckily) found other employment and will finally be leaving this company.

    Once again, huge appreciation to all the posts contributing constructive feedback - thank you very very much.
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