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  • FIRST POST
    • Hbeard
    • By Hbeard 31st Mar 17, 1:14 PM
    • 37Posts
    • 13Thanks
    Hbeard
    Funeral Attendance/Work
    • #1
    • 31st Mar 17, 1:14 PM
    Funeral Attendance/Work 31st Mar 17 at 1:14 PM
    Hello MSE Forum,

    I come once again to ask advice from you all.

    My manager recently passed away, only 54 - far too young!

    The next manager in line who I now report to (lets call him Super Cuddly Uniformed Man) did not tell me of my managers passing, I had to find out from a colleague.

    His funeral is on Monday at 11am. S.C.U.M, asked if myself or my colleague would like to attend the funeral. We both indicated that we would. This happened a few weeks ago.

    Today, my manager contacted my colleague to ask if he still wants to attend, my colleague declined. I was not contacted and asked the same. When I directly emailed and asked, I was told it wouldn't be possible as we are both required to be at work on Monday. If this is the case, why was my colleague contacted today and asked if he still wanted to go?

    What I want to know good people of MSE, is do I have any options here regarding complaints via my companies HR Department. Its no secret that SCUM does not like me and has tried to have me fired on numerous occasions, my old manager prevented this from happening. Currently, I am doing my old managers job (the 4th time I have been in this position with this company) and we are not being told if there any plans to replace him. I am the next logical choice, but will not be offered the job because of SCUM's issues with me. I have other small examples of favouritism, disrespect etc from SCUM, but nothing particularly concrete.

    I am wondering if I have an option to be either reassigned to a different department, or have the manager changed due to his obvious personal issues with me.

    Any info is appreciated, thanks for taking the time to read my post!
    Last edited by Hbeard; 31-03-2017 at 3:00 PM.
Page 2
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 6th Apr 17, 7:59 PM
    • 18,688 Posts
    • 14,407 Thanks
    agrinnall
    I'm frankly amazed by some of the responses on here.


    Whilst it's true that there is no automatic ie statutory right to paid leave to attend a funeral, most employers do offer either a contractual right (usually for family members, etc) - or unpaid leave for neighbours and close friends.


    Check the staff handbook for compassionate leave and so on.


    I'm also aware of a Tribunal decision where the discrimination included where one of the elements was that a manager had allowed one team member to attend a funeral but not another.


    I don't know the size of the firm, but a polite email to HR or a Director should at least mean you know for certain. I'd be amazed if they refuse to allow even unpaid leave to attend a former work colleague's funeral.


    Indeed where this happened recently at my OH's workplace, they closed as a mark of respect and so that they could all attend the funeral [although I realise this won't be the case in al sectors]
    Originally posted by Mersey
    The funeral has already happened so this is moot for this particular case.
    • Hbeard
    • By Hbeard 13th Apr 17, 8:07 AM
    • 37 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Hbeard
    As an addition to this query, what are the laws concerning holiday/annual leave? I have now submitted 4 requests for annual leave and all of them have been rejected, no reason given. I am desperately trying to find a new job, how can I get one when I am being consistently denied the opportunity to take time off for interviews with potential employers and agencies?

    If I resign, I lose the right to sign on for JSA (if that's what its called now), If I get fired that goes down on my permanent record, so I appear to be stuck? Am I missing something?

    I figured I'd ask here rather then start another new thread.,once again, really apreciate any info or advice people can give.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 13th Apr 17, 9:11 AM
    • 3,175 Posts
    • 2,893 Thanks
    Undervalued
    As an addition to this query, what are the laws concerning holiday/annual leave? I have now submitted 4 requests for annual leave and all of them have been rejected, no reason given. I am desperately trying to find a new job, how can I get one when I am being consistently denied the opportunity to take time off for interviews with potential employers and agencies?

    If I resign, I lose the right to sign on for JSA (if that's what its called now), If I get fired that goes down on my permanent record, so I appear to be stuck? Am I missing something?

    I figured I'd ask here rather then start another new thread.,once again, really apreciate any info or advice people can give.
    Originally posted by Hbeard
    The laws are very simple but sadly not what you want to hear!

    You are entitled to 28 days (5.6 weeks) leave per year but your employer can totally dictate when you can and cannot take it. So it would be perfectly lawful for an employer to close for 5.6 weeks per year and allow no other leave whatsoever. OK, they might struggle to recruit and retain staff.....
    • Hbeard
    • By Hbeard 19th Apr 17, 2:35 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Hbeard
    The laws are very simple but sadly not what you want to hear!

    You are entitled to 28 days (5.6 weeks) leave per year but your employer can totally dictate when you can and cannot take it. So it would be perfectly lawful for an employer to close for 5.6 weeks per year and allow no other leave whatsoever. OK, they might struggle to recruit and retain staff.....
    Originally posted by Undervalued
    Does this mean that they can essentially never allow me to take my leave? If I have an interview, do I have no right to attend that?
    • London50
    • By London50 19th Apr 17, 3:00 PM
    • 1,532 Posts
    • 1,446 Thanks
    London50
    As stated you are entitled to 28 days holiday but the management can choose when you can take it. You have every right to go to an interview BUT if it is not in the days/dates directed by your management then it could be either unpaid leave or unlawful absences that could go on your record.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 19th Apr 17, 4:29 PM
    • 3,175 Posts
    • 2,893 Thanks
    Undervalued
    Does this mean that they can essentially never allow me to take my leave? If I have an interview, do I have no right to attend that?
    Originally posted by Hbeard
    No and no.

    They must let you take your leave at some point during the year. However, worst case that could be a 28 day block that they choose and no other time off at all!

    You have no specific right to time off to attend an interview (unless you are being made redundant). So booking a day off for that purpose is no different from booking a day off for a funeral or anything else. The employer is quite entitled to say no and insist you only take leave when it suits them.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 19th Apr 17, 4:34 PM
    • 3,175 Posts
    • 2,893 Thanks
    Undervalued
    As stated you are entitled to 28 days holiday but the management can choose when you can take it. You have every right to go to an interview BUT if it is not in the days/dates directed by your management then it could be either unpaid leave or unlawful absences that could go on your record.
    Originally posted by London50
    Just to add there is no right to unpaid leave other than "short" periods for "emergency" situations involving dependents. The law doesn't define short or emergency but the general interpretation is enough time to arrange care but not time to do the caring yourself.

    Virtually all employers are actually more flexible about this and holiday booking than the minimum legal requirement. However how much flexibility varies enormously.
    • London50
    • By London50 19th Apr 17, 4:55 PM
    • 1,532 Posts
    • 1,446 Thanks
    London50
    Just to add there is no right to unpaid leave other than "short" periods for "emergency" situations involving dependents. The law doesn't define short or emergency but the general interpretation is enough time to arrange care but not time to do the caring yourself.

    Virtually all employers are actually more flexible about this and holiday booking than the minimum legal requirement. However how much flexibility varies enormously.
    Originally posted by Undervalued
    I totally agree with what you are saying but the OP either wants someone on here to state that the company they work for are wrong with the company rules or cannot understand the basics of the set 28 holiday days law.
    All companies I have worked for gave the holiday rules and you either excepted them or moved on,If the OP is not happy with the company policy then perhaps it is time to try and find one that suits
    • foxtrotoscar
    • By foxtrotoscar 19th Apr 17, 10:28 PM
    • 1,031 Posts
    • 1,520 Thanks
    foxtrotoscar
    Looking over the OP's posting history is an interesting read work wise.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 20th Apr 17, 8:00 AM
    • 30,745 Posts
    • 18,376 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Hello MSE Forum,

    I come once again to ask advice from you all.

    My manager recently passed away, only 54 - far too young!

    The next manager in line who I now report to (lets call him Super Cuddly Uniformed Man) did not tell me of my managers passing, I had to find out from a colleague.

    His funeral is on Monday at 11am. S.C.U.M, asked if myself or my colleague would like to attend the funeral. We both indicated that we would. This happened a few weeks ago.

    Today, my manager contacted my colleague to ask if he still wants to attend, my colleague declined. I was not contacted and asked the same. When I directly emailed and asked, I was told it wouldn't be possible as we are both required to be at work on Monday. If this is the case, why was my colleague contacted today and asked if he still wanted to go?

    What I want to know good people of MSE, is do I have any options here regarding complaints via my companies HR Department. Its no secret that SCUM does not like me and has tried to have me fired on numerous occasions, my old manager prevented this from happening. Currently, I am doing my old managers job (the 4th time I have been in this position with this company) and we are not being told if there any plans to replace him. I am the next logical choice, but will not be offered the job because of SCUM's issues with me. I have other small examples of favouritism, disrespect etc from SCUM, but nothing particularly concrete.

    I am wondering if I have an option to be either reassigned to a different department, or have the manager changed due to his obvious personal issues with me.

    Any info is appreciated, thanks for taking the time to read my post!
    Originally posted by Hbeard
    a little late to this, but I see the post/incident was the Friday before the Funeral on the Monday.

    The error was emailing the manager that they don't get on with.

    Should have just kept quiet and planned to go as agreed, if local it would only be a couple of hours anyway.

    seems a bit of anger/frustration stopped the OP thinking.
    • Hbeard
    • By Hbeard 20th Apr 17, 12:34 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Hbeard
    I totally agree with what you are saying but the OP either wants someone on here to state that the company they work for are wrong with the company rules or cannot understand the basics of the set 28 holiday days law.
    All companies I have worked for gave the holiday rules and you either excepted them or moved on,If the OP is not happy with the company policy then perhaps it is time to try and find one that suits
    Originally posted by London50
    I am not looking for that at all, I wanted to make sure that I understood the basics before I act. The holiday rules were given when I started, and previously the company have operated as any other regarding holiday, it is only recently that my my leave started to be rejected for spurious reasons.

    Looking over the OP's posting history is an interesting read work wise.
    Originally posted by foxtrotoscar
    Its been an interesting company to try and work for.

    a little late to this, but I see the post/incident was the Friday before the Funeral on the Monday.

    The error was emailing the manager that they don't get on with.

    Should have just kept quiet and planned to go as agreed, if local it would only be a couple of hours anyway.

    seems a bit of anger/frustration stopped the OP thinking.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    The manager in question asked my colleague if he would like to attend on the Friday, when he declined, the same offer was not made to me. My colleague informed me we had to attend work on Monday and I emailed to confirm this. Had I gone to funeral I would have been disciplined for not attending work.
    Last edited by Hbeard; 20-04-2017 at 12:41 PM.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 20th Apr 17, 12:58 PM
    • 30,745 Posts
    • 18,376 Thanks
    getmore4less
    You said I your first post you had already been ask and said you wanted to go.

    Untill your boss told you different should have stuck to that.
    • Hbeard
    • By Hbeard 5th May 17, 4:26 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Hbeard
    You said I your first post you had already been ask and said you wanted to go.

    Untill your boss told you different should have stuck to that.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    If I had attended I would have been given a verbal warning. Essentially, I would have been allowed to go as the last communication would have been mu confirmation of attendance, however, based on existing experience with said Manager, I would have been given a warning regardless. This has happened on other occasions with different circumstances.

    Its a moot point now as the Funeral has come and gone, I have now (very luckily) found other employment and will finally be leaving this company.

    Once again, huge appreciation to all the posts contributing constructive feedback - thank you very very much.
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