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  • FIRST POST
    • Craig Maddocks
    • By Craig Maddocks 27th Mar 17, 7:58 PM
    • 15Posts
    • 3Thanks
    Craig Maddocks
    Complicated, advice please
    • #1
    • 27th Mar 17, 7:58 PM
    Complicated, advice please 27th Mar 17 at 7:58 PM
    Hi,
    I will try and be detailed.

    My partner recieved a £120 PCN becuase the permit wasnt on display.
    She emailed them right away ( which I wasnt happy about becuase I like to reseach before we go jumping in)
    And explained that she has a permit it just had fallen off the window and she is allowed to park there because she works there.

    Somone who worked at the School phoned Spring Parking Ltd and on the phone the PCN was cancelled.
    We have no proof of this. So it wasnt paid.

    146 days later we recieved a Notice to Keeper from PCS
    When she phoned up it was a differnet conpany and they said "No the PCN wasnt cancelled and we have taken over the claim so you have to pay or evidence it was cancelled.

    Long story short.
    We have evidence of us contacting them.
    We dont have evidence of it being cancelled or any evidence of them getting back to us at all.

    So she is allowed to park where she parked. So no loss to the company/landowner becuase they dont do pay and display. The Notice to Keeper was late by 90ish days.

    What is my next step?
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Mar 17, 8:01 PM
    • 45,089 Posts
    • 57,707 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 27th Mar 17, 8:01 PM
    • #2
    • 27th Mar 17, 8:01 PM
    The keeper appeals online or by email (NOT BY POST) to PCS, as per that letter. Forget what happened before. Don't talk about the driver, use the forum template in the NEWBIES thread.

    And it is only little old (tiny) Spring Parking, who duck out of POPLA as soon as you say 'boo!'
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Craig Maddocks
    • By Craig Maddocks 27th Mar 17, 8:44 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Craig Maddocks
    • #3
    • 27th Mar 17, 8:44 PM
    • #3
    • 27th Mar 17, 8:44 PM
    We have recieved a NTK though.
    Im confused as to what Grounds I am appealing On. The fact the NTK took 146 days?
    Which tenplate am I using? Sorry
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Mar 17, 8:46 PM
    • 45,089 Posts
    • 57,707 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 27th Mar 17, 8:46 PM
    • #4
    • 27th Mar 17, 8:46 PM
    I know you've received a NTK, that's the chance for the keeper to appeal. Don't talk about the driver, use the forum template in the NEWBIES thread, the top thread you saw when you hit 'new thread'.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • yotmon
    • By yotmon 28th Mar 17, 12:49 PM
    • 443 Posts
    • 618 Thanks
    yotmon
    • #5
    • 28th Mar 17, 12:49 PM
    • #5
    • 28th Mar 17, 12:49 PM

    Someone who worked at the School phoned Spring Parking Ltd and on the phone the PCN was cancelled.
    Originally posted by Craig Maddocks
    Does your partner know the person who rang the ppc on her behalf and if so, are they willing to give a witness statement, stating that the ppc cancelled the ticket ? Could prove useful as part of your popla appeal.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 28th Mar 17, 12:59 PM
    • 38,500 Posts
    • 76,937 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #6
    • 28th Mar 17, 12:59 PM
    • #6
    • 28th Mar 17, 12:59 PM
    I hope your username isn't your real name. If so, you should contact one of the board guides and ask them to change it to one that can't identify you.

    Parking scammers monitor these fora.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Craig Maddocks
    • By Craig Maddocks 28th Mar 17, 1:32 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Craig Maddocks
    • #7
    • 28th Mar 17, 1:32 PM
    • #7
    • 28th Mar 17, 1:32 PM
    It is my name but not my parters. The ticket is in her name.

    I will do anyway thanks
    • Craig Maddocks
    • By Craig Maddocks 20th Apr 17, 1:50 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Craig Maddocks
    • #8
    • 20th Apr 17, 1:50 PM
    They have had this reply
    • #8
    • 20th Apr 17, 1:50 PM
    This is what they finally replied with this.. long story short they haven't given me a POPLA CODE

    Thank you for your email regarding the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

    What you need to do now

    So I can contact the driver for payment of the amount due, please let me know their name and address. Please let me have these details by 04/05/2017.

    What if you do not know who the driver of the vehicle was

    As you are the registered keeper of the vehicle, I am assuming that it was being driven with your consent and that you will therefore know who the driver was.

    If you do not provide details of the driver by the date shown above, we will continue to contact you for payment of the parking charge on the assumption that as the registered keeper you were also the driver of the vehicle (as established in Elliott v Loake [1982]).

    Alternatively, payment of the £120.00 can be made online or by phone. Go to website phone 0208 528 4122. You can find full details of how to pay on the reverse of the letter(s) sent.

    What will happen if you do not name the driver of the vehicle or make payment

    If you do not name the driver or the amount outstanding is not paid by the date shown above, it will be recommended to our client that court action be taken by them to recover the amount outstanding.

    More information

    Under the Pre-Action Protocol of the Civil Procedural Rules, court action must only be viewed as a last resort. By requesting the driver’s details we are attempting to avoid this outcome.
    Payment Methods

    Kind Regards
    • paulstevens64
    • By paulstevens64 20th Apr 17, 3:16 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    paulstevens64
    • #9
    • 20th Apr 17, 3:16 PM
    • #9
    • 20th Apr 17, 3:16 PM
    Craig,


    This is a fishing letter. They are trying to get you to reveal who the driver is, so they can pursue the driver. Ignore this letter, then they will reject your appeal, but will include a POPLA code.

    You will then be able to put a winning POPLA appeal together with the help of experts on this forum.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 20th Apr 17, 3:49 PM
    • 38,500 Posts
    • 76,937 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Not only is it a phishing scam, the charge exceeds the maximum £100 allowed by the BPA, the company that issued the PCN is not the same as the one that sent the NTK, they are threatening court action without providing a PoPLA code, and they have quoted E vs L knowing that it does not apply to a private parking case and also breaches the BPA CoP by suggesting that it can be assumed that the keeper was the driver.

    Complain about this to the BPA, DVLA, your MP, Mrs May, Andrew Jones MP, plus local and national press. Copy the parking scammers in on the complaint to the BPA/DVLA, but do not otherwise contct them until they have provided a PoPLA code.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 20-04-2017 at 3:54 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Craig Maddocks
    • By Craig Maddocks 20th Apr 17, 3:53 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Craig Maddocks
    Thanks you for your help.

    I do have quick question, we did appeal this and the charge was cancelled with the original company(but have no evidence that it was cancelled because it was over the phone). So no code. I read (but may of misunderstood) that only a PoPLA code is needed for the initial appeal. True or false?
    • Craig Maddocks
    • By Craig Maddocks 20th Apr 17, 4:32 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Craig Maddocks
    OK so I phoned.

    They said that it is a None Pofa parking charge. So they can send the notice to keeper anytime they want.

    They said they cant cancel the charge because they don't have the authority and spring parking wont talk to us either.

    HELP
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 20th Apr 17, 4:44 PM
    • 38,500 Posts
    • 76,937 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    The advice in the NEWBIES thread tells you to never 'phone a parking company as you risk giving away the driver's identity. Saying "I parked" or, "my wife parked" during a recorded call is all it takes.)

    Nothing they say makes any difference to what you should do. I have already advised you what this is. You will win at PoPLA becuase the NTK is outwith the POFA 2012 and therefore only the driver can be held liable. As long as nobody tells them the identity of the driver they are stuffed.

    Now please start making the compaints as advised. You can't progress this without a PoPLA code so you need to tell the BPA you haven't been given one, and you are now being threatened with court by a different company to the one that sent the PCN (another winning PoPLA appeal point as the details on both the PCN and NTK must match.)

    The DVLA also need to be made aware of this. I believe the contact detail are available in the NEWBIES.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 20-04-2017 at 4:47 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Craig Maddocks
    • By Craig Maddocks 20th Apr 17, 5:11 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Craig Maddocks
    sorry for the million questions. They are refusing to give me a PoPLA code. they said they don't give them out and NTK rules don't apply because of its a Non POFA charge.

    I have contacted them again via email. Asking for a code. just to appeal within the 28days of NTK and ill contact BPA.

    I feel I will end up paying this fine because its easier than going to court.

    I really appreciate the help though.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Apr 17, 5:20 PM
    • 45,089 Posts
    • 57,707 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I feel I will end up paying this fine because its easier than going to court.
    Absolutely NOT.

    Get real - this is nothing at all - you should NEVER have phoned them. I do hope you didn't admit the driver on the phone or talk about the parking day...absolutely pointless phone call and a phone call is never something to do about any PCN, not even a real Council one, never never phone about a parking charge.

    It's a TINY little firm, Spring Parking, not a court-happy monster! And they must send you a POPLA code. Even for a non-POFA one, 146 days is too long for the NTK.

    I would indeed complain to the BPA about the 2 issues now:

    - the NTK taking 146 days (DO NOT talk about the PCN or driver!)
    - them refusing to provide a POPLA code.

    aos@britishparking.co.uk
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 20-04-2017 at 5:27 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 20th Apr 17, 5:24 PM
    • 38,500 Posts
    • 76,937 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    sorry for the million questions. They are refusing to give me a PoPLA code. they said they don't give them out and NTK rules don't apply because of its a Non POFA charge.

    I have contacted them again via email. Asking for a code. just to appeal within the 28days of NTK and ill contact BPA.

    I feel I will end up paying this fine because its easier than going to court.

    I really appreciate the help though.
    Originally posted by Craig Maddocks
    It is not a fine.

    If they refuse to give you a PoPLA code they are in breach of the ADR Act 2015, which is why you must complain. I advised you to compain to the BPA and DVLA, and copy the scammers in, not to contact the scammers again. I feel that I am wasting my time by trying to help you when you won't take my advice.
    Of course that is your choice, but it is not a very nice feeling for me.

    They don't have to comply with the POFA 2012, but can only go after the driver if they don't.

    I would have thought a couple of emails to the BPA and DVLA would be a lot easier than paying scammers who aren't going to take you to court anyway. You can contact the BMPA motoring charity for confirmation of that if you wish, but one of their members has already told you this.

    Please don't pay it otherwise you will be funding the scammers to target more vulnerable people, and will be a kick in the teeth for the people who give up their time everyday, for free, to help people like you.
    The NEWBIES thread took volunteers hundreds of hours to create, and is regularly updated.

    Please just follow the advice, and spend a few hours of your own time to beat the scammers.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 20th Apr 17, 5:34 PM
    • 1,125 Posts
    • 2,023 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    If you look at the simple numbers. Spring Parking issued 3337 tickets last year and went to court 4 times. 1 in 1000 is the usual rule and Spring are no different from the rest.

    But you could be one of those people if you are the unlucky sort. Are you unlucky?
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.
    • Craig Maddocks
    • By Craig Maddocks 20th Apr 17, 5:37 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Craig Maddocks
    It is now with P.C.S.
    And no I did not admit who the driver was on the phone.

    Thanks for the fighting talk guys, Massive help
    • waamo
    • By waamo 20th Apr 17, 5:40 PM
    • 1,078 Posts
    • 1,077 Thanks
    waamo
    sorry for the million questions. They are refusing to give me a PoPLA code. they said they don't give them out and NTK rules don't apply because of its a Non POFA charge.
    Originally posted by Craig Maddocks
    That is a big,fat porky. I bet they didn't put that in writing. I also bet they will deny ever saying it.

    Refusing to give POPLA codes is a serious breach of BPA rules. You should inform the DVLA and the BPA immediately.
    This space for hire.
    • Craig Maddocks
    • By Craig Maddocks 20th Apr 17, 5:41 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Craig Maddocks
    I bet you're right they refused to send it in an email.
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