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  • FIRST POST
    • Sir Artois
    • By Sir Artois 27th Mar 17, 9:52 AM
    • 31Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Sir Artois
    Consumer Rights Act 2015
    • #1
    • 27th Mar 17, 9:52 AM
    Consumer Rights Act 2015 27th Mar 17 at 9:52 AM
    Good Morning All..

    I'm having the worst week:- Chicken Pox (twice now!) for my little one, 999 ambulance trip for the mrs and car breakdown!

    Hoping you can help with the latter!

    Right, i bought a used car mid january this year, for £1500
    the clutch had been changed and the dealer gave me a receipt for that, along with a 28 day warranty for clutch, gearbox and leaks (only gearbox is pertinent to this)

    around the 4 weeks mark (coincidentally) i start getting grinding noises, which get progressively worse over a few weeks, so i take the car to 2 garages for separate opinions. Both, say the gearbox is wrecked, basically.

    The day after, as i am ironically driving it to a garage by work, its breaks down, immobile. I pay £50 for recovery to home, then begin my calls. garage B mentioned consumer rights act 2015, which states that if goods are not fit for purpose (i.e. break down) within 6months the dealer is liable to repair or replace the goods. I call the dealer and he is not interested, saying it doesnt apply. after i send him links / screenshots, he calls back and says he will formulate an offer and get back to me by end of the day. he doesnt, but after around 20 calls (literally) i get an answer. he offers £250, providing i bring car to him, he will have a garage fix it.

    the garages i spoke to estimated around £650-700 cost.
    i told him its not good enough and i could make him pay everything, but i am willing to pay £200, if he collects the car (as ive already paid £50 for recovery). he says his best offer is £250 end of, even after i threaten court (as a last resort of course).

    My dilemma is, my car is now off the road, totally undrivable. I have to get to work and pick up my daughter from nursery (currently have partner's car while she is bedridden, but not for long).

    As i see it i have a few options:

    1) go along with what he says
    2) go the courts route, but suffer in the meantime with a loooong time to recover money
    3) take it to my local garage and have them fix it, then try recover the money after.

    Thoughts??
Page 2
    • Sir Artois
    • By Sir Artois 23rd May 17, 3:38 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Sir Artois
    yep thanks for the replies both, mutley:- thats one of the sites i used to find info, it reinforces what i've done. Adrian C, thanks for that guide, i've read it, so basically, he has to pay £255 then explain how he doesnt owe the money to the court in person.. but he has no leg to stand on, so i'll win either way.

    bailiffs in a week if i don't get this sorted
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 23rd May 17, 4:06 PM
    • 3,198 Posts
    • 3,241 Thanks
    DoaM
    What's the value of the default judgment? If it's more than £600 (ish) then you could potentially escalate to HCEOs rather than bailiffs, as HCEOs have much greater powers of recovery.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Sir Artois
    • By Sir Artois 30th May 17, 10:35 AM
    • 31 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Sir Artois
    its £1175. gearbox repair plus transport fees court fees recovery costs etc

    hceo?
    • waamo
    • By waamo 30th May 17, 10:38 AM
    • 2,018 Posts
    • 2,437 Thanks
    waamo
    HCEOs are these guys. http://thesheriffsoffice.com/articles/hceo_or_county_court_bailiff

    They tend to have a better collection rate than baliffs as if they don't collect they don't get paid.
    This space for hire.
    • caprikid1
    • By caprikid1 30th May 17, 10:55 AM
    • 458 Posts
    • 473 Thanks
    caprikid1
    I think the new consumer rights act will either end sub 3K cars from the forecourt or push them all as "Private Sales" I cannot see how dealers can possibly make any money with the risk of failure of low value cars.


    We are now even seeing private sales going the same way in terms of consumer expectations.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 30th May 17, 12:57 PM
    • 15,377 Posts
    • 8,786 Thanks
    motorguy
    I think the new consumer rights act will either end sub 3K cars from the forecourt or push them all as "Private Sales" I cannot see how dealers can possibly make any money with the risk of failure of low value cars.


    We are now even seeing private sales going the same way in terms of consumer expectations.
    Originally posted by caprikid1
    Yes, i wholly agree.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 30th May 17, 2:56 PM
    • 15,089 Posts
    • 13,411 Thanks
    AdrianC
    I think the new consumer rights act will either end sub 3K cars from the forecourt or push them all as "Private Sales" I cannot see how dealers can possibly make any money with the risk of failure of low value cars.
    Originally posted by caprikid1
    It hasn't done in the nearly two years it's been in place. Remember, the various tests are still tempered by reasonable expectations for age, price and apparent condition.

    We are now even seeing private sales going the same way in terms of consumer expectations.
    Yes, well...
    • Sir Artois
    • By Sir Artois 30th May 17, 4:11 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Sir Artois
    i get your points gents, this is why i offered the salesman £200 to fix it, no doubt he knows a guy who could do it for cheaper than i'd be able to.

    however, its not fair on me to buy a car, then have a huge bill after a few weeks - less than 1500miles

    also, when the gearbox was fixed, THAT mechanic said the seller must have known the fault, due to replacing parts that would essentially make it "last a bit longer". clearly, im no mechanic, but when i take my toddlers carseat up to test it in the car, knowingly selling me a duff motor is despicable.

    WAAMO:- thanks for the HCEO pointer, ive contacted them and will take it up with them tomorrow when the judgement agreement time runs out - thanks!
    • Sir Artois
    • By Sir Artois 30th May 17, 4:13 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Sir Artois
    oh one more point, the consumer law gives 28 days for private sales!
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 30th May 17, 4:28 PM
    • 15,089 Posts
    • 13,411 Thanks
    AdrianC
    however, its not fair on me to buy a car, then have a huge bill after a few weeks - less than 1500miles
    Originally posted by Sir Artois
    Let's go back to the start.
    You bought a £1,500 car.
    Four weeks later, the gearbox started making "grinding noises".
    You continued to drive the car, which "got worse over a few weeks".
    You did not check with the supplier, but drove the car to two other garages.
    As you were driving it to one garage, it then failed completely.

    That "grinding noises" suggests the clutch was not fully disengaging. The supplier may or may not have been responsible for that. If you had brought that to the supplier's attention within the first 30 days, you may very well have had a full refund, as the law allows you - with certain caveats around reasonable expectations given the price, age and apparent condition of the vehicle.
    The basic test - is it reasonable to expect that failure on goods of that age, if you'd owned it from new. So if the car is 14yrs old and 100k miles, is it reasonable for the clutch to fail? Yes, it is.

    By continuing to drive it, you may well have made that much worse, by damaging the gearbox internals. The supplier is not responsible for that.

    You did not follow the correct procedure set out in law - which is to give the supplier the opportunity to inspect it first.

    also, when the gearbox was fixed, THAT mechanic said the seller must have known the fault, due to replacing parts that would essentially make it "last a bit longer".
    This is Chinese Whispers, and makes no sense whatsoever.

    clearly, im no mechanic, but when i take my toddlers carseat up to test it in the car, knowingly selling me a duff motor is despicable.
    Sorry, but that's just emotive irrelevance.

    There is one pertinent fact which you seem to have failed to consider - it's a £1,500 car. It is right at the end of its realistic life, and your legal rights are heavily tempered by that.

    oh one more point, the consumer law gives 28 days for private sales!
    Originally posted by Sir Artois
    Care to point to which bit?

    Notwithstanding that, it would be irrelevant in your case, as you were six or so weeks in when you finally contacted the supplier.
    Last edited by AdrianC; 30-05-2017 at 4:31 PM.
    • ess0two
    • By ess0two 30th May 17, 6:46 PM
    • 2,900 Posts
    • 3,794 Thanks
    ess0two
    oh one more point, the consumer law gives 28 days for private sales!
    Originally posted by Sir Artois

    Bolx, sold as seen when private.
    Official MR B fan club,dont go............................
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 30th May 17, 7:02 PM
    • 15,377 Posts
    • 8,786 Thanks
    motorguy
    Bolx, sold as seen when private.
    Originally posted by ess0two
    Providing its as described and the seller doesnt lie about the condition.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • macman
    • By macman 31st May 17, 12:07 AM
    • 41,290 Posts
    • 16,954 Thanks
    macman
    And of course the business may have no saleable assets that the bailiffs can take, in which case you'll get nothing. A judgement in your favour does not automatically mean you will get your claim paid.
    Presumably they won't bother trying to seize any of his cars...
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • Sir Artois
    • By Sir Artois 5th Jun 17, 9:17 AM
    • 31 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Sir Artois
    ive appointed the high court bailiffs to the case, cheaper than small claims court and incentivised by commission. the company is trying to strike off the register, but has committed an offence as thy have not informed me (and any other creditors). not looking good for this company.
    Last edited by Sir Artois; 05-06-2017 at 9:32 AM.
    • Sir Artois
    • By Sir Artois 5th Jun 17, 9:30 AM
    • 31 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Sir Artois
    Adrian C, thanks for that one.. pointwise to your response...

    i checked with the supplier first and foremost, but he was not interested, firstly he disassociated himself from it, then (after i showed him the legal aspect) offered me a small sum, which wouldnt cover even half.

    as for the mechanic, he showed me the part which i still have possession of, that had sheared, not due to myself, after such a short time driving it. as i said, im no mechanic, but when a mechanic tells me that this particular part was well and truly broken at sale, i wake up and take note.

    emotive irrelevance? i see your point, its not like i was putting it in his face, but knowingly selling me a dodgy motor, which he could see was having a toddler going into it.. not good is it.

    end of its realistic life? it had less than 55k on the clock mate. thats around less than half the life, i'd surmise.

    as for the 28days, ill allow that one, i could have sworn i read that in my research! but yes irrelevant anyway, it was only a point of interest.

    Im still valid as its between 30days/6months
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 5th Jun 17, 10:43 AM
    • 15,089 Posts
    • 13,411 Thanks
    AdrianC
    end of its realistic life? it had less than 55k on the clock mate. thats around less than half the life, i'd surmise.
    Originally posted by Sir Artois
    Mileage is irrelevant. It was a £1,500 car - what age?
    • Sir Artois
    • By Sir Artois 12th Jun 17, 10:09 AM
    • 31 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Sir Artois
    10 yrs old
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Jun 17, 10:21 AM
    • 15,089 Posts
    • 13,411 Thanks
    AdrianC
    There y'go, then.

    The average age of a car at scrapping in the UK is under 14 years, while the average age of a vehicle on the road is under 8 years.
    https://www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topics/sustainability/vehicle-end-of-life/average-vehicle-age/

    So your car is getting towards half way between average age and average scrapping age. The last years of a car's life are inevitably the most trouble-filled of the life span. In human terms, your car is into retirement, with the health problems that implies.

    I repeat -
    The basic test - is it reasonable to expect that failure on goods of that age, if you'd owned it from new.
    • Sir Artois
    • By Sir Artois 12th Jun 17, 3:55 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Sir Artois
    thats a valid opinion.

    plot thickens a little..

    the guy has tried to wind up his company without letting me know (i found out via companies house). this is criminal offence.

    after threatening me a little, we seem to have agreed on a settlement,
    so thanks all for your replies and advice. all appreciated.

    Thank you
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