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  • FIRST POST
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 26th Mar 17, 12:20 PM
    • 11,492Posts
    • 11,089Thanks
    sourcrates
    DMP Mutual Support Thread - Part 12
    • #1
    • 26th Mar 17, 12:20 PM
    DMP Mutual Support Thread - Part 12 26th Mar 17 at 12:20 PM
    Welcome to the DMP mutual support thread Part 12 !!

    Here you can find help in starting and running your DMP, self managed, Stepchange, Payplan and any other DMP all welcome here, but we do encourage you to use a free service, not one you pay for.

    There is help on getting interest and charges stopped, how to start with an emergency fund, defaults, token payments and lots more.

    If you are in a DMP or thinking of one, this is the place to be. We are non judgmental and all questions are welcome.

    Again the old thread was getting a tad long, so time for a new one.

    The old thread can be found here :

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5285089

    Once again, i think the original "newbie" post by sazzie23 still rings true.
    Last edited by sourcrates; 26-03-2017 at 12:50 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there.
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
Page 67
    • carbootcrazy
    • By carbootcrazy 17th Jul 17, 10:49 AM
    • 3,883 Posts
    • 21,716 Thanks
    carbootcrazy
    Hi,

    They are correct, there is no requirement under sec 77/79 to provide a copy agreement with a signature.

    A signature has no bearing on an agreements enforcability.

    They can use any information they currently hold on file about you to reconstitute the agreement, however, they cannot make things up if they dont hold sufficient info on you.

    If your account pre-dates April 2007, then whatever they send you must include the "prescribed terms" of the agreement, if its after that date, then a basic recon will suffice.
    Originally posted by sourcrates
    All this talk of signatures is confusing me! Doesn't take much

    Are they supposed to provide a copy of the actual filled-in credit card application form? I'm referring to late 1990 applications. Lloyds sent me pages of Ts and Cs etc but no sign of an application copy or details of credit limits and suchlike. Other creditors all sent application form copies as well as the other stuff. Lloyds' cover letter states that they have fulfilled their obligations but I have my doubts. It's my biggest outstanding debt, nearly £7000 so I need to make sure everything is as it should be with it.
    Last edited by carbootcrazy; 17-07-2017 at 10:51 AM.
    Make £10 A Day Challenge 2017. Jan-July: £3687.51 Aug: £242.35
    3-6 Months Emergency Fund Challenge #12: £3358.00/£5000. This is so hard but I will do it.

    Original Debt: £56804 (@ LBM 02/13). Balance now: £21808
    . Getting there
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 17th Jul 17, 11:34 AM
    • 11,492 Posts
    • 11,089 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Hi Carboot,

    It is quite a complex issue, but the basics are :

    No signature is required to make an agreement valid for the purposes of a CCA request.

    In some circumstances, an application form doubled as a credit agreement, but only a few lenders did this.

    A reconstituted version of your agreement is perfectly acceptable from any time period, but, if your agreement pre-dates April 2007, then it must contain the prescribed terms.

    Because of the complex nature of the issue of credit agreements, its important you get them checked over by someone who knows what they are looking for.

    Normally an application form would not be construed as a credit agreement.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there.
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • StopIt
    • By StopIt 17th Jul 17, 12:04 PM
    • 753 Posts
    • 682 Thanks
    StopIt
    All this talk of signatures is confusing me! Doesn't take much

    Are they supposed to provide a copy of the actual filled-in credit card application form? I'm referring to late 1990 applications. Lloyds sent me pages of Ts and Cs etc but no sign of an application copy or details of credit limits and suchlike. Other creditors all sent application form copies as well as the other stuff. Lloyds' cover letter states that they have fulfilled their obligations but I have my doubts. It's my biggest outstanding debt, nearly £7000 so I need to make sure everything is as it should be with it.
    Originally posted by carbootcrazy

    They don't need to provide the full application form, only the bits you needed to have agreed to, and the CCA requires the prescribed terms for Pre-2007 debts.


    For all of the debts that a CCA request has been fulfilled, it'll be good idea to book a session with your local CAB and ask for an expert eye to check them out. After all, it can't hurt to make sure either way.
    • heavenlyharry01
    • By heavenlyharry01 17th Jul 17, 1:08 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 126 Thanks
    heavenlyharry01
    PRA Group - they have written to me after my CCA request and said that my debt is unenforceable.
    I have made a low 10% offer, which they have refused and are only willing to accept a less than £200 discount on a £3400 debt!!
    Should I stop making my token £1 payments completely? And just ignore it until they find the relevant documents?
    • Mr Yellow
    • By Mr Yellow 17th Jul 17, 1:38 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Mr Yellow
    Hi All,

    First post for a couple of weeks, but I thought it would be good to update my situation with this forum. So my DMP is set up with Step Change, and the first payment is due to be taken on 1st August. Starting to feel like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders, and good in the knowledge that me and the wife are dealing with our debt problems.........

    And then disaster strikes!! Car breaks down yesterday, and have had to fork out nearly £350 today to get it repaired. Worst possible timing, and wipes out our little emergency fund of cash that we had started to build up. I know that our emergency fund was for this exact type of scenario, I just wasn't planning to have to use it quite so quickly!!
    • StopIt
    • By StopIt 17th Jul 17, 2:16 PM
    • 753 Posts
    • 682 Thanks
    StopIt
    Hi All,

    First post for a couple of weeks, but I thought it would be good to update my situation with this forum. So my DMP is set up with Step Change, and the first payment is due to be taken on 1st August. Starting to feel like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders, and good in the knowledge that me and the wife are dealing with our debt problems.........

    And then disaster strikes!! Car breaks down yesterday, and have had to fork out nearly £350 today to get it repaired. Worst possible timing, and wipes out our little emergency fund of cash that we had started to build up. I know that our emergency fund was for this exact type of scenario, I just wasn't planning to have to use it quite so quickly!!
    Originally posted by Mr Yellow

    Call Stepchange, explain the emergency and say you need a little extra time to start paying the DMP.


    After all, you're not going to have access to credit after this, so re-building that emergency fund is essential.
    • Suseka97
    • By Suseka97 17th Jul 17, 2:29 PM
    • 106 Posts
    • 155 Thanks
    Suseka97
    PRA Group - they have written to me after my CCA request and said that my debt is unenforceable.
    I have made a low 10% offer, which they have refused and are only willing to accept a less than £200 discount on a £3400 debt!!
    Should I stop making my token £1 payments completely? And just ignore it until they find the relevant documents?
    Originally posted by heavenlyharry01
    The balls in your court HH. If it were me I'd stop paying altogether - leave it around 6 months or so and then maybe go back with an offer. Of, as others have, just walk away (but keep all the paperwork in case they sell on). Focus on those that are enforceable for now.
    LBM Apr13: 14 Creditors / £85k+ owed
    Current Status: 6 Creditors / £11,994
    DFD: Aiming for end of 2018
    Self-managed Aug17: CCAs pending
    • Mr Yellow
    • By Mr Yellow 17th Jul 17, 2:30 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Mr Yellow
    Call Stepchange, explain the emergency and say you need a little extra time to start paying the DMP.


    After all, you're not going to have access to credit after this, so re-building that emergency fund is essential.
    Originally posted by StopIt
    Yes, I was thinking about this, but was a little concerned that maybe Step Change might think I'm taking liberties with them. Was also a little worried how it might go down with the creditors.
    • Suseka97
    • By Suseka97 17th Jul 17, 2:32 PM
    • 106 Posts
    • 155 Thanks
    Suseka97
    They don't need to provide the full application form, only the bits you needed to have agreed to, and the CCA requires the prescribed terms for Pre-2007 debts.
    For all of the debts that a CCA request has been fulfilled, it'll be good idea to book a session with your local CAB and ask for an expert eye to check them out. After all, it can't hurt to make sure either way.
    Originally posted by StopIt
    Good advice as usual StopIt. I've joined the 'AllAboutDebts' forum who have a dedicated thread on UE's and some very knowledgeable folks on there help people understand their rights and explain what the letters mean. When I get the final responses I intend to post them on that forum.
    LBM Apr13: 14 Creditors / £85k+ owed
    Current Status: 6 Creditors / £11,994
    DFD: Aiming for end of 2018
    Self-managed Aug17: CCAs pending
    • StopIt
    • By StopIt 17th Jul 17, 2:46 PM
    • 753 Posts
    • 682 Thanks
    StopIt
    Yes, I was thinking about this, but was a little concerned that maybe Step Change might think I'm taking liberties with them. Was also a little worried how it might go down with the creditors.
    Originally posted by Mr Yellow

    If not now, at some point another emergency will happen.


    It's why some people prefer to drop to token payments for a few months before even starting DMP payments via Stepchange, PayPlan or Self Managed. They wont judge you, and you wont be the first person whose circumstances changed in the interim period of setting up a DMP.
    Good advice as usual StopIt. I've joined the 'AllAboutDebts' forum who have a dedicated thread on UE's and some very knowledgeable folks on there help people understand their rights and explain what the letters mean. When I get the final responses I intend to post them on that forum.
    Originally posted by Suseka97

    Sounds good. After all, the worst case you face is someone telling you "Yep, that paperwork is all good" and you continue the DMP payments to them.
    • carbootcrazy
    • By carbootcrazy 17th Jul 17, 3:02 PM
    • 3,883 Posts
    • 21,716 Thanks
    carbootcrazy
    Good advice as usual StopIt. I've joined the 'AllAboutDebts' forum who have a dedicated thread on UE's and some very knowledgeable folks on there help people understand their rights and explain what the letters mean. When I get the final responses I intend to post them on that forum.
    Originally posted by Suseka97
    Thanks for reminding me of AAD, Suseka. I've joined too but so far haven't uploaded my documentation for someone to take a look at. Having major family issues at the moment, don't know whether I'm coming or going. I seem to be in a slight lull period now though so must get onto it asap whilst I have the time. Will be very interested to read how you get on. Good luck

    sourcrates and StopIt thank you so much for your wise advice on my CCA documentation questions. You're stars as always


    Just one of my creditors hasn't come back with any information yet, apart from saying they were working on it about 2 months ago. Must be over 10 weeks now since my original CCA request so I'm definitely working on the 'no news is good news' principle
    Make £10 A Day Challenge 2017. Jan-July: £3687.51 Aug: £242.35
    3-6 Months Emergency Fund Challenge #12: £3358.00/£5000. This is so hard but I will do it.

    Original Debt: £56804 (@ LBM 02/13). Balance now: £21808
    . Getting there
    • carbootcrazy
    • By carbootcrazy 17th Jul 17, 3:16 PM
    • 3,883 Posts
    • 21,716 Thanks
    carbootcrazy
    PRA Group - they have written to me after my CCA request and said that my debt is unenforceable.
    I have made a low 10% offer, which they have refused and are only willing to accept a less than £200 discount on a £3400 debt!!
    Should I stop making my token £1 payments completely? And just ignore it until they find the relevant documents?
    Originally posted by heavenlyharry01

    Congratulations on the unenforceability, shame PRA are such meanies with their discount offer


    I've been biding my time with my (so far) only definitely unenforceable and have paid them nothing since they wrote to tell me it was. I used the idea of a poster on here who suggested telling creditors with unenforceable debts that he/she was going to concentrate on ones that are enforceable for the foreseeable future. They must have replied as soon as they got my letter (takes them weeks as a rule) as I had a request from them today to complete their enclosed I&E form but don't intend to do so. For one thing I don't want them to know who my other creditors are that are getting paid. They probably already know this anyway from previous I&Es I've filled in but if they can't get their act together to find it I'm certainly not bothering to do it again. I find it very hard, not to say stressful, sitting it out to see what they'll do next though. I'm a terrible wimp . It's for about £5000ish so not to be taken lightly. I intend to make a ridiculously low F&F but thought it best to wait a few months if my nerve holds out. Several months of getting nothing might force their hand a little
    Make £10 A Day Challenge 2017. Jan-July: £3687.51 Aug: £242.35
    3-6 Months Emergency Fund Challenge #12: £3358.00/£5000. This is so hard but I will do it.

    Original Debt: £56804 (@ LBM 02/13). Balance now: £21808
    . Getting there
    • carbootcrazy
    • By carbootcrazy 17th Jul 17, 3:33 PM
    • 3,883 Posts
    • 21,716 Thanks
    carbootcrazy
    Sorry to be monopolising the thread this afternoon but I just wanted to come on, share my good news and to do a few

    I just heard back that my PPI claim has been upheld. I nearly gave up on this as the company said they had no record of PPI ever being paid and asking me to supply paperwork, statements etc, otherwise they could not investigate further. It was so far in the past that not only didn't I have any paperwork (on a long-ago repaid loan) that I doubted whether I was mistaken in thinking I ever had PPI at all. I never tended to have PPI on any of the many loans etc I ever had over a whole lifetime of borrowing money but I just had a hunch that just maybe I did this time. Purely by a fluke, several months later when I'd given it up as a lost cause, completely by chance I found a single old statement from 2001 among a pile of totally unrelated paperwork and sent it off. Today I received a letter telling me that I've been awarded £1458.


    You've no idea how much this means to me as the money will swell my F&F coffers considerably and what with that and a few months of token payments I might just have enough to make credible F&Fs by sometime next year. My DFD had been put back to late 2020 so anything that advances the day when all my debts are gone is absolutely brilliant. I haven't received the cheque yet, could be up to 28 days, but so long as it's coming I'm over the moon.
    Last edited by carbootcrazy; 17-07-2017 at 3:46 PM.
    Make £10 A Day Challenge 2017. Jan-July: £3687.51 Aug: £242.35
    3-6 Months Emergency Fund Challenge #12: £3358.00/£5000. This is so hard but I will do it.

    Original Debt: £56804 (@ LBM 02/13). Balance now: £21808
    . Getting there
    • StopIt
    • By StopIt 17th Jul 17, 3:35 PM
    • 753 Posts
    • 682 Thanks
    StopIt
    Thanks for reminding me of AAD, Suseka. I've joined too but so far haven't uploaded my documentation for someone to take a look at. Having major family issues at the moment, don't know whether I'm coming or going. I seem to be in a slight lull period now though so must get onto it asap whilst I have the time. Will be very interested to read how you get on. Good luck

    sourcrates and StopIt thank you so much for your wise advice on my CCA documentation questions. You're stars as always


    Just one of my creditors hasn't come back with any information yet, apart from saying they were working on it about 2 months ago. Must be over 10 weeks now since my original CCA request so I'm definitely working on the 'no news is good news' principle
    Originally posted by carbootcrazy

    If you're just waiting on one response that's likely going to take a while, get onto that AAD site and get some expert eyes on the agreements you have received. Hoping for you that the so called "enforceable" paperwork isn't!
    Congratulations on the unenforceability, shame PRA are such meanies with their discount offer


    I've been biding my time with my (so far) only definitely unenforceable and have paid them nothing since they wrote to tell me it was. I used the idea of a poster on here who suggested telling creditors with unenforceable debts that he/she was going to concentrate on ones that are enforceable for the foreseeable future. They must have replied as soon as they got my letter (takes them weeks as a rule) as I had a request from them today to complete their enclosed I&E form but don't intend to do so. For one thing I don't want them to know who my other creditors are that are getting paid. They probably already know this anyway from previous I&Es I've filled in but if they can't get their act together to find it I'm certainly not bothering to do it again. I find it very hard, not to say stressful, sitting it out to see what they'll do next though. I'm a terrible wimp . It's for about £5000ish so not to be taken lightly. I intend to make a ridiculously low F&F but thought it best to wait a few months if my nerve holds out. Several months of getting nothing might force their hand a little
    Originally posted by carbootcrazy

    Remember: If they've admitted the debt isn't enforceable, the most action they can take is to ask very nicely for their money. After admitting unenforceability they cannot take it to court.


    The only slight worry is that without settling the debt, the DCA may sell on the debt and you'll have to send the proof the debt is unenforceable to another lot but it's no great hardship either way. But certainly offer no more than 10% either way, it's certainly not worth more than that now they've not got a legal leg to stand on.


    Hoping you're doing OK aside from the money stuff though. I never know whether I'm coming or going without any drams, but that's the fun of having a 10 month old to chase around


    Edit: Congrats on the PPI claim too!
    • Dandytf
    • By Dandytf 17th Jul 17, 3:42 PM
    • 698 Posts
    • 295 Thanks
    Dandytf
    called sc today as my recently removed hsbos account has since been passed onto westcot

    thankfully as this is since April correct reduced sc payments have debited with a nice low balance owed

    sc as always will contact wescot and re add this to dmp

    1 of 2 accounts sortted

    just co op to catchup- not sure which collection agencies co op use- time will tell I suppose
    sc dmp 2012 13k

    Jan 2017 7380 paid. 50% ish...
    • StopIt
    • By StopIt 17th Jul 17, 3:51 PM
    • 753 Posts
    • 682 Thanks
    StopIt
    called sc today as my recently removed hsbos account has since been passed onto westcot

    thankfully as this is since April correct reduced sc payments have debited with a nice low balance owed

    sc as always will contact wescot and re add this to dmp

    1 of 2 accounts sortted

    just co op to catchup- not sure which collection agencies co op use- time will tell I suppose
    Originally posted by Dandytf

    Remember that Wescot only manage debts, they do not buy them so it may, or may not be sold on in due course. As Stepchange will manage any changes though it wont make much odds either way, but just a technical point that may be important later on.


    If you get to the point of wanting to send F&F offers to settle these debts, debts with Wescot and the like do not accept much in the way of settlement offers. If the debts are sold, they are usually, but not always, more willing to negotiate.
    • Dandytf
    • By Dandytf 17th Jul 17, 5:27 PM
    • 698 Posts
    • 295 Thanks
    Dandytf
    excellent advice stopit

    363 could be tempted to offer a f&f though with 2 debts still +1k think I’ll wait until all are -1k before trying F&f offers

    think 2 will be paid off in a few months anyway - going to let them run anyway
    sc dmp 2012 13k

    Jan 2017 7380 paid. 50% ish...
    • The_Analyst
    • By The_Analyst 18th Jul 17, 8:41 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    The_Analyst
    Hi everyone, just wondering how you all manage without a credit card at times when one is needed such as hiring a car etc.? Is there normally a way around it?
    Thanks
    Originally posted by leanne12345
    There are companies out there who will allow you to hire a car with a debit card (but be prepared for them to insist on you have "x" amount of money in your bank that they can "freeze"). Alternatively, take out a credit-building CC to use for Car Hire only - just be sure to pay the excess waiver then they don't need to block out £1500-1800 on your card for potential excess payments (I experienced this in Spain recently where I only had £1500 credit limit and the T&Cs of the Car Hire company stated they block out £1800 at the time of hire)
    • Julie67
    • By Julie67 18th Jul 17, 9:39 AM
    • 2,342 Posts
    • 21,239 Thanks
    Julie67
    Hi All, I have been thinking about a response to one of my creditors who has deemed my debt unenforceable but then continues to write letters requesting immediate payment (Idem Servicing, debt was with Halifax originally)
    I was thinking of trying the following response.

    You responded on 1st June 2017 explaining you were unable to supply a copy of the agreement at present and acknowledging that until you do so this credit agreement cannot be enforced.

    With the assistance of North East Derbyshire Citizens Advice Bureau, I also wrote enclosing a copy of my income and expenditure. As you can see, after essential expenditure, there is no available income to make repayments towards this account.

    My situation is unlikely to change.

    As you have deemed this account unenforceable I am now prioritising my debts accordingly.

    I have several enforceable debts I am turning my efforts to them and will not be making payment to this one.

    In these circumstances, as this debt is unenforceable, I would like to ask you to write off the debt completely. While I realise that this is unsatisfactory, I feel it is the most practical course of action at this time.


    Yours faithfully


    What do you think? I am sure they will write back and tell me where to go but do you feel it's a reasonable response ?
    Any advice much appreciated.
    Started Self Managed DMP 10th May 2017.
    Working hard to get rid of our debt.
    • StopIt
    • By StopIt 18th Jul 17, 9:46 AM
    • 753 Posts
    • 682 Thanks
    StopIt
    Hi All, I have been thinking about a response to one of my creditors who has deemed my debt unenforceable but then continues to write letters requesting immediate payment (Idem Servicing, debt was with Halifax originally)
    I was thinking of trying the following response.

    You responded on 1st June 2017 explaining you were unable to supply a copy of the agreement at present and acknowledging that until you do so this credit agreement cannot be enforced.

    With the assistance of North East Derbyshire Citizens Advice Bureau, I also wrote enclosing a copy of my income and expenditure. As you can see, after essential expenditure, there is no available income to make repayments towards this account.

    My situation is unlikely to change.

    As you have deemed this account unenforceable I am now prioritising my debts accordingly.

    I have several enforceable debts I am turning my efforts to them and will not be making payment to this one.

    In these circumstances, as this debt is unenforceable, I would like to ask you to write off the debt completely. While I realise that this is unsatisfactory, I feel it is the most practical course of action at this time.


    Yours faithfully


    What do you think? I am sure they will write back and tell me where to go but do you feel it's a reasonable response ?
    Any advice much appreciated.
    Originally posted by Julie67

    Reasonable, but unlikely to get the account written off just yet.


    They've only deemed the account unenforceable at present and haven't given up on the possibility of finding the relevant paperwork. If they give up completely, they'll be far more open to a lowball settlement or even writing the debt off completely.


    However the rest is all fair comment. There is no point in paying unenforceable debts while trying to service enforceable ones (Or much point at all really!) so while they're allowed to reject the write off request and correctly state that you still owe the money, they've got no legal recourse in the case of non payment.


    Expect a bit of a stalemate for a while until they give up finding the CCA Agreement, or magic it up.
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