DMP Mutual Support Thread - Part 12

sourcrates · 14 May 2017 at 12:14PM

Julie67 wrote: »

I've got a question. I've sent off a CCA to our biggest creditor Cabot who I've heard are hopeless at providing these, fingers crossed.
I will do the other five this week. But if they cannot provide them, what's the next step?

Hi Julie,

Unenforceable is not really the correct terminology, i know it gets banded about a lot on here, but for creditors who can supply an agreement (applies to pre April 2007 only) most fall down because they have been “improperly executed", that usually means it does not comply with sec 65, CCA, so has improperly executed terms, i.e terms missing from the agreement.

In order for the creditor to fully comply with your request, they do not necessarily have to supply the original signed piece of paper, although some do, they can reconstitute an agreement made up of information held on there systems, but, this information must be accurate, they cannot just make it up, it must be a true copy.

Now if they cant find your agreement, and dont hold enough information about you, to reconstitute a copy, they will usually tell you so, that then puts you in a unique position, they can still ask you to pay, they can still report on your credit file, they can start court action (as i described in a previous post) but with no agreement, cannot follow it through to judgement.

At this point some companies just give up, and you never hear from them again, others sell the debt on, and you have to go round the houses informing them of previous events, some will take a small offer, some wont, you cannot predict how they will react.

Thats why a lot of people just walk away and pay nothing in sheer frustration at a creditor not accepting an offer from them.

So lots to think about.

Twins · 14 May 2017 at 8:16PM

carbootcrazy wrote: »

Well done on all your hard work, Twins:T. I wish you the best of luck in getting what you want from your plans:beer:.

I'm in a slightly similar situation but a bit ahead of you in that I've already (finally:o) gone self-managed thanks to all the wonderful help and support on this thread:A. I've also sent off my CCA requests but it is taking an age to get anything back:eek:. Even an initial acknowledgement that they are working on it would be nice in a couple of cases;). Two of the 'sold on' ones wrote straight back saying they had to refer back to the original creditor for the requested information. I've high hopes that these will fail to produce what I asked for as the debts are so old:j. Just wanted to say, be patient as these companies work in mysteriously slow ways;).

Sorry, a few questions which I hope you don't find intrusive or nosy:o. Did you request CCA from PRA group a while ago, seeing as you already know that they can't produce what you wanted? How long did it take from your initial request to your finding out they couldn't comply? Did they actually tell you that the debt was unenforceable (as I know MBNA has done with some posters on here)? Do they actually tell you that they can't come up with the goods or do they leave things in limbo?

Hi carboot, thank you and of course I don't mind you asking at all. I've asked so many questions here I'm sure Jan and Sourcrates are sick of me

Yes you're right, I did send off the CCA request to PRA Group a few weeks back and am also still waiting to hear back on a couple of other creditors who are dragging their heels in responding. I didn't send off all my CCA requests to all my creditors at the same time which was a bit silly of me and just made things a little more confusing when it didn't need to be.

PRA Group have two of my accounts (Barclaycard and Egg) and they responded on one of the requests within 3-4 weeks. They went back to Barclaycard but confirmed that they couldn't provide the original documentation and so the debt was unenforceable (they said this in the letter). The second letter came about a week later and similar thing... they couldn't find original paperwork and they are marking it unenforceable. However, this letter was worded slightly differently. In it they told me that I was still legally obliged to pay it.

I've now written back to them and said as the debt is unenforceable I'd like to offer a F&F of 10%. That was on the 3rd May and not heard anything back yet but I doubt they'll lie down and take that. I'll let you know what they say when I get a response.

Good luck with your CCA's, I hope they can't find them

Keep me posted!

Puzzcat · 15 May 2017 at 10:59AM

sourcrates wrote: »

Hi Puzz,

Unfortunately its not as black and white as i originally thought.

Its sec 87, part A, consumer credit act, that applies here :

87 Need for default notice.

(1)Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section 88 (a “default notice ”) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement,—

(a)to terminate the agreement, or

(b)to demand earlier payment of any sum, or

(c)to recover possession of any goods or land, or

(d)to treat any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as terminated, restricted or deferred, or

(e)to enforce any security.

In order to terminate the agreement, to sell a debt, they have to send a default notice, now we all know that does not necessarily mean a default will be registered, although most of the time, that is the case, it depends on how you interpret sec 87, so can be a slight gray area.

Thanks for that, I have never had a default notice from the original creditor or Lowell's... I think I may take this up with them both again...

Puzz. x

unicorndeva · 15 May 2017 at 6:30PM

I am so happy!!!

Using information given to me by January, I've just found out that the MBNA agreements that were returned to me are unenforceable! That's 11k I don't have to pay. Not sure what our next move will be yet but I'm grinning from ear to ear.

January thank you so much for taking the time to help me and thanks to everyone else here for the time you put in to help others too.

KID77 · 15 May 2017 at 7:15PM

Thats great news on MBNA.

We have 3 MBNA cards all now with PRA, I am curious to know what made them uneforceable incase this would apply to us.....perhaps someone could send me a PM if they dont want to publish it?

Thank you in advance.

unicorndeva · 15 May 2017 at 7:51PM

KID77 wrote: »

Thats great news on MBNA.

We have 3 MBNA cards all now with PRA, I am curious to know what made them uneforceable incase this would apply to us.....perhaps someone could send me a PM if they dont want to publish it?

Thank you in advance.

One agreement the terms were illegible on the application, and the other referred to clauses that were supposed to be about personal information (on the application) but were about something completely different on the actual terms.

My heart sank when these copy agreements arrived and I thought I'd have to pay them but then January gave me her advice and it changed everything :beer:

Debtfreehopeful · 15 May 2017 at 8:20PM

I'm feeling really panicky right now....I was going to start my SC DMP at the start of May but decided to go self-managed so wrote to all my creditors. Tesco and Barclaycard have written back to me defaultung my account however they're demanding the full amount owing on the account. I don' know what to do- I've made my first self-managed payment at the start of this month...I'm particularly worried that Tesco have said if they pass my details on to a DCA they can do a home visit! Help!

sourcrates · 15 May 2017 at 10:12PM

Debtfreehopeful wrote: »

I'm feeling really panicky right now....I was going to start my SC DMP at the start of May but decided to go self-managed so wrote to all my creditors. Tesco and Barclaycard have written back to me defaultung my account however they're demanding the full amount owing on the account. I don' know what to do- I've made my first self-managed payment at the start of this month...I'm particularly worried that Tesco have said if they pass my details on to a DCA they can do a home visit! Help!

Wow calm down, standard wording of a default notice asks for full repayment, it's just a computer generated letter they have to send you in order to default your account, you can safely ignore it.

It's just a normal step in the dance, as are the threat of home visits, they could turn up with wine and cheese, but I doubt it, home visits are rare, and can only happen if you agree to it, by contacting them.

Please remember these are all standard, run of the mill scare tactics that you can completely ignore.

Just carry on with your self managed DMP, forget the letters, there just letters..........

Send them a written reminder that you are self managing your DMP, and to stop sending you carp through the post.

January2015 · 15 May 2017 at 10:41PM

Debtfreehopeful wrote: »

I'm feeling really panicky right now....I was going to start my SC DMP at the start of May but decided to go self-managed so wrote to all my creditors. Tesco and Barclaycard have written back to me defaultung my account however they're demanding the full amount owing on the account. I don' know what to do- I've made my first self-managed payment at the start of this month...I'm particularly worried that Tesco have said if they pass my details on to a DCA they can do a home visit! Help!

As Sourcrates say - don't panic these are standard letters. The minute you break the T&Cs of a credit agreement the full amount becomes repayable to the lender - that's how it works.

Passing you account(s) to DCAs is what you want to happen. I know it feels scary but just take a deep breath and know you are just treading the same path everyone on this thread had done (or is just starting to tread). If you panic at letters and are unsure what they mean, or what consequences there will be from a particular letter - come and post on here and we all help.

No-one (creditor or DCA) is going to be knocking at your door unless you completely ignore everything for months and months and months - yes that's how long it will take before they even think of sending a person out to visit your home. You are here - so obviously you are not going to ignore things - you are dealing with your debts. They will know that from your letters and DMP payments.

January2015 · 15 May 2017 at 10:42PM

unicorndeva wrote: »

I am so happy!!!

Using information given to me by January, I've just found out that the MBNA agreements that were returned to me are unenforceable! That's 11k I don't have to pay. Not sure what our next move will be yet but I'm grinning from ear to ear.

January thank you so much for taking the time to help me and thanks to everyone else here for the time you put in to help others too.

Whoo Hoo :j:j:j:j:j

I am soooo soooooo pleased for you. I, too, am grinning from ear to ear

DMP Mutual Support Thread - Part 12

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