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  • FIRST POST
    • Smed
    • By Smed 24th Mar 17, 1:15 PM
    • 40Posts
    • 3Thanks
    Smed
    First post
    • #1
    • 24th Mar 17, 1:15 PM
    First post 24th Mar 17 at 1:15 PM
    Hello everyone. Been lurking for a while and now signed up to get some ideas. I have a regular savings account with Virgin Money and I invest with Moneybox App General investment Account and fully invested in a Stocks and Shares ISA and a Cash Isa. Still a fair amount of cash to invest.
Page 7
    • masonic
    • By masonic 15th Apr 17, 12:57 PM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,273 Thanks
    masonic
    Pleased that you admit to the truth. But you missed out the tripe. Look at the replies in other threads declaring that in the Moneybox app the flat fee of £1 per month represents 25% of the investment without referring to the investment total balance.
    Originally posted by Smed
    There's no excuse for that. People who have made that claim deserve as much lampooning as those who use the app.

    What that comes down to is that "flat fee" is not understood.
    It is not a flat fee. It is £1 per month, plus 0.45% per year. The 0.45% itself is a very high fee, so slapping £12 per year on top makes it a rip off.

    The problem here is that MSE has not posted an article about Moneybox so you all don't know what to say about it and can't work that out for yourselves.
    When it comes to investments, the main MSE site is not recommended reading.

    For more examples of tripe just look at the replies in this thread.
    Indeed. For a more concentrated version, they could just look at your posting history.
    • Smed
    • By Smed 17th Apr 17, 8:25 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Smed
    It is not a flat fee. It is £1 per month, plus 0.45% per year. The 0.45% itself is a very high fee, so slapping £12 per year on top makes it a rip off.
    Originally posted by masonic
    So what you are saying is that the £1 per month flat fee is not a flat fee because there are other fees. That's incredible reasoning to say the least. We might equally say that my gym membership is not £12 per month flat fee because I also have to pay instructor's fees. What it actually comes down to is a flat fee for the use of the equipment. But I really don't expect you to understand that.

    I say again that you don't understand "flat fee"

    I don't know what you base your conclusion of Moneybox on. I suspect it's yet more tripe.
    • masonic
    • By masonic 17th Apr 17, 9:41 AM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,273 Thanks
    masonic
    So what you are saying is that the £1 per month flat fee is not a flat fee because there are other fees. That's incredible reasoning to say the least. We might equally say that my gym membership is not £12 per month flat fee because I also have to pay instructor's fees. What it actually comes down to is a flat fee for the use of the equipment. But I really don't expect you to understand that.

    I say again that you don't understand "flat fee"

    I don't know what you base your conclusion of Moneybox on. I suspect it's yet more tripe.
    Originally posted by Smed
    What I am saying is it is not a flat fee if there is a percentage element to the fee structure. It is you that doesn't understand "flat fee" if you think 0.45% fee with a monthly subscription of £1 is a flat fee.

    If 0.45% + £1 per month is flat fee in your description, how about the 0.45% + £0 per month charged at HL? I suppose you'd call that free.

    Presumably, in your gym analogy, the instructor is optional. Any gym that has non-optional fees that depend on the amount you use it cannot describe itself as flat fee. In the same way, any platoform that has fees that depend on the amount you have invested cannot describe itself as flat fee. But I don't expect you to understand that.

    I base my conclusion about the Moneybox app on the product itself, which I agree could be described as tripe, but I prefer to describe it as a rip off.
    Last edited by masonic; 17-04-2017 at 9:57 AM.
    • Smed
    • By Smed 17th Apr 17, 12:41 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Smed
    What I am saying is it is not a flat fee if there is a percentage element to the fee structure. It is you that doesn't understand "flat fee" if you think 0.45% fee with a monthly subscription of £1 is a flat fee.

    If 0.45% + £1 per month is flat fee in your description, how about the 0.45% + £0 per month charged at HL? I suppose you'd call that free.

    Presumably, in your gym analogy, the instructor is optional. Any gym that has non-optional fees that depend on the amount you use it cannot describe itself as flat fee. In the same way, any platoform that has fees that depend on the amount you have invested cannot describe itself as flat fee. But I don't expect you to understand that.

    I base my conclusion about the Moneybox app on the product itself, which I agree could be described as tripe, but I prefer to describe it as a rip off.
    Originally posted by masonic
    You are posting tripe. You cannot say that something is expensive or inexpensive or cheap without a comparison with something similar. In fact you can do that but then you will get people like me saying you are posting tripe which you are doing.

    In the Moneybox app there are different parts to the fee structure. One of them is a £1 per month flat fee. Perhaps you can understand that but I suspect not and you will just reply with yet more tripe.
    • masonic
    • By masonic 17th Apr 17, 1:27 PM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,273 Thanks
    masonic
    You are posting tripe. You cannot say that something is expensive or inexpensive or cheap without a comparison with something similar. In fact you can do that but then you will get people like me saying you are posting tripe which you are doing.
    Originally posted by Smed
    I have made a comparison to something similar (HL), which itself is considered expensive when compared to other similar services (CSD, etc).

    In the Moneybox app there are different parts to the fee structure. One of them is a £1 per month flat fee. Perhaps you can understand that but I suspect not and you will just reply with yet more tripe.
    So now it's a partly flat fee structure.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 17th Apr 17, 4:31 PM
    • 5,466 Posts
    • 5,270 Thanks
    eskbanker
    The usual debate about investment charges is the point at which flat fees are more cost-effective than percentage-based fees (as seen at comparison sites like http://monevator.com/compare-uk-cheapest-online-brokers/) - I rather suspect that OP's view is that a product that has both a flat fee and a percentage fee must therefore be superior!
    • Smed
    • By Smed 18th Apr 17, 6:16 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Smed
    I have made a comparison to something similar (HL), which itself is considered expensive when compared to other similar services (CSD, etc).


    So now it's a partly flat fee structure.
    Originally posted by masonic
    I expected tripe and I'm not disappointed. You might just as well compare a potato and a carrot because they are both root vegetables or a bicycle and a motorbike because they both have two wheels. LOL
    • masonic
    • By masonic 18th Apr 17, 6:56 PM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,273 Thanks
    masonic
    I expected tripe and I'm not disappointed. You might just as well compare a potato and a carrot because they are both root vegetables or a bicycle and a motorbike because they both have two wheels. LOL
    Originally posted by Smed
    Yes, I realise that it looks a little silly comparing something like the Moneybox app to investment platforms for grown ups.
    • Smed
    • By Smed 18th Apr 17, 7:17 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Smed
    Yes, I realise that it looks a little silly comparing something like the Moneybox app to investment platforms for grown ups.
    Originally posted by masonic
    Tripe is what I get for attempting to discuss something with someone who doesn't know the first thing about the subject. Maybe you can work out your dole money better,
    • Smed
    • By Smed 18th Apr 17, 7:23 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Smed
    The usual debate about investment charges is the point at which flat fees are more cost-effective than percentage-based fees (as seen at comparison sites like http://monevator.com/compare-uk-cheapest-online-brokers/) - I rather suspect that OP's view is that a product that has both a flat fee and a percentage fee must therefore be superior!
    Originally posted by eskbanker
    Along similar lines, maybe I should stop paying £1.87p for my coffee and go to Waitrose, buy a plastic bag for 5p and get my coffee for free. The only problem is that Waitrose coffee is awful. There's a moral in there but I don't expect you'll be able to see it.

    btw do you have "banker" in your username because it lends authority to your posts and do people actually think you're really a banker? LOL
    • Apodemus
    • By Apodemus 18th Apr 17, 7:47 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 624 Thanks
    Apodemus
    btw do you have "banker" in your username because it lends authority to your posts and do people actually think you're really a banker? LOL
    Originally posted by Smed
    Funny, I had always assumed that he/she came from Eskbank!
    • masonic
    • By masonic 18th Apr 17, 8:00 PM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,273 Thanks
    masonic
    Tripe is what I get for attempting to discuss something with someone who doesn't know the first thing about the subject.
    Originally posted by Smed
    You're right. I don't know the first thing about tripe. You, on the other hand, seem obsessed by it.
    • racey
    • By racey 18th Apr 17, 8:23 PM
    • 142 Posts
    • 48 Thanks
    racey
    You're right. I don't know the first thing about tripe. You, on the other hand, seem obsessed by it.
    Originally posted by masonic
    Apparently it's often eaten with onions. Some people seem to like it.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 18th Apr 17, 9:05 PM
    • 6,692 Posts
    • 11,891 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    Along similar lines, maybe I should stop paying £1.87p for my coffee and go to Waitrose, buy a plastic bag for 5p and get my coffee for free. The only problem is that Waitrose coffee is awful. There's a moral in there but I don't expect you'll be able to see it.
    Originally posted by Smed
    You're right, us 'bankers' don't have morals so we won't be able to see them in a tall tale about how cheap and great your coffee is and how terrible it would be to take the offered cup of the stuff for free while you are leaving a grocery store having bought an item there.

    Why are people still conversing with this troll? I don't suppose I am helping much by doing the same, but I'm above judgement because I'm such an excellent person (both in real life and online).
    • mollycat
    • By mollycat 18th Apr 17, 9:53 PM
    • 935 Posts
    • 1,889 Thanks
    mollycat

    Why are people still conversing with this troll?.
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    Misunderstood genius.

    That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 18th Apr 17, 11:49 PM
    • 5,466 Posts
    • 5,270 Thanks
    eskbanker
    Along similar lines, maybe I should stop paying £1.87p for my coffee and go to Waitrose, buy a plastic bag for 5p and get my coffee for free. The only problem is that Waitrose coffee is awful. There's a moral in there but I don't expect you'll be able to see it.
    Originally posted by Smed
    If you're clumsily trying to make the point that cheaper isn't necessarily better then I'm sure that's something we can all agree on, but what incremental benefit do you feel you get from the extra cost of Moneybox over the competition? Or if it's a different point you're trying to hint at then please feel free to go ahead and educate us, preferably without repetitive references to tripe.

    btw do you have "banker" in your username because it lends authority to your posts and do people actually think you're really a banker? LOL
    Originally posted by Smed
    Perhaps the news hasn't reached darkest rural Lincolnshire yet but there was a bit of a financial crisis a few years ago, which finally put to bed any notion that bankers were regarded as figures of authority, and ever since then the word has had pantomime villain connotations, especially in the slavering world of the Daily Fail and the like, so it's not something that many aspire to.

    Apodemus wins the gold star for comprehension....
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 19th Apr 17, 1:04 AM
    • 2,117 Posts
    • 3,095 Thanks
    EachPenny
    Hello everyone. Been lurking for a while and signed up recently to interact on the forum rather than just reading. I'd love some advice please. I'm quite traumatised and confused by some posts on this thread. For example,

    The problem with such forums is that they are obviously frequented by anonymous persons who are living in a fantasy world where they are rich and know what there is to know about investing their riches and can therefore advise others. Why would anyone in those circumstances post anonymously on an internet forum and considering the times of their posts could be unemployed people with not even two pennies to rub together?
    Originally posted by Smed
    ..and...

    A lot easier to work out when people are not working. If they always post during the day on a weekday then they are not working for a living. I know it and everyone knows. Nobody is being fooled. These people supposedly having investments, bank accounts and credit cards is a joke and the joke is on them. I say go get a job and support yourselves instead of depending on my taxes!
    Originally posted by Smed
    Since I have time to post at all times of the day, including weekdays, I must be unemployed, have one penny or less, and all the letters I get regarding my investments, bank accounts and credit cards must be in my imagination, or some cruel hoax organised by all the high street banks.

    What should I do? I'm shaken to the core by this revelation that my whole world is just a fantasy.

    Or should I just take note of these wise words....

    ...But yet again the display of a lack of knowledge...
    Originally posted by Smed
    ....and accept the reality that not everybody has a binary choice of going out to work or else depending on Smed's taxes for support?

    Do you see my confusion?
    • Fatbritabroad
    • By Fatbritabroad 19th Apr 17, 5:41 AM
    • 170 Posts
    • 73 Thanks
    Fatbritabroad
    Along similar lines, maybe I should stop paying £1.87p for my coffee and go to Waitrose, buy a plastic bag for 5p and get my coffee for free. The only problem is that Waitrose coffee is awful. There's a moral in there but I don't expect you'll be able to see it.

    btw do you have "banker" in your username because it lends authority to your posts and do people actually think you're really a banker? LOL
    Originally posted by Smed
    I assumed 'banker' was a misspelling
    • Smed
    • By Smed 20th Apr 17, 4:07 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Smed
    If you're clumsily trying to make the point that cheaper isn't necessarily better then I'm sure that's something we can all agree on, but what incremental benefit do you feel you get from the extra cost of Moneybox over the competition? Or if it's a different point you're trying to hint at then please feel free to go ahead and educate us, preferably without repetitive references to tripe.

    Perhaps the news hasn't reached darkest rural Lincolnshire yet but there was a bit of a financial crisis a few years ago, which finally put to bed any notion that bankers were regarded as figures of authority, and ever since then the word has had pantomime villain connotations, especially in the slavering world of the Daily Fail and the like, so it's not something that many aspire to.

    Apodemus wins the gold star for comprehension....
    Originally posted by eskbanker
    So you are claiming to be a banker then, I don't suppose you have any proof of that.

    I wonder because you are almost completely clueless.

    You claim that a £1 per month flat fee is unreasonable without considering the total balance. Expressed as a percentage on a balance of £5000 not an unreasonable figure for investments, that's 0.02%. Since you think that is very big I wonder what interest you are getting on your savings. If you have any savings that is. LOL.

    You also appear to claim that the fee charged is the be all and end all of investing because the fee is all you are considering. LOL
    • masonic
    • By masonic 20th Apr 17, 6:49 AM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,273 Thanks
    masonic
    You claim that a £1 per month flat fee is unreasonable without considering the total balance. Expressed as a percentage on a balance of £5000 not an unreasonable figure for investments, that's 0.02%. Since you think that is very big I wonder what interest you are getting on your savings. If you have any savings that is. LOL.
    Originally posted by Smed
    In fairness to eskbanker, the MoneyBox app site itself gets this completely wrong. If you scroll down to the calculator at https://www.moneyboxapp.com/investing/ the MoneyBox app site claims the fees paid to MoneyBox on a £5000 investment total £2.88 per month, which expressed as a percentage is 0.058% per month or 0.69% per year.

    But you've spotted that they've made a huge error in their calculations and been able to invest at a much cheaper cost than any of us imagined. Congratulations! A 0.02% platform fee on just £5,000 of investments is a really great deal.

    Edit: It seems that calculator has really been messed up. When I move the amount invested slider, the 'Fees paid to Moneybox' moves up and down, as if it wasn't a flat fee. What a load of tripe, eh?
    Last edited by masonic; 20-04-2017 at 7:04 AM.
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