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  • FIRST POST
    • Commandante
    • By Commandante 21st Mar 17, 10:13 PM
    • 44Posts
    • 8Thanks
    Commandante
    That same Doncaster Airport road again!
    • #1
    • 21st Mar 17, 10:13 PM
    That same Doncaster Airport road again! 21st Mar 17 at 10:13 PM
    Hello everyone,

    First...we have read the newbie sticky, but one way or another it doesn't deal exactly with what we want to ask so we wanted to get further advice We have also read a number of other threads here and elsewhere of people in a similar situation but none of them tell us what the resolution or result was so we don't know how effective the advice is

    Anyway...a person who I shall name Eric has been slapped with the same issue in the same place as this lady (and many like her) - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-fights-outrageous-150-parking-6561345

    Eric's case is basic enough. He agreed to meet a friend at the Ramada hotel before catching a flight. He drove there and realised there were barriers stopping anybody but residents from driving into the car park. He therefore went to the dead-end area at the end of the road, where there's a bit of a wasteland area where it looks like they haven't built/are repairing the rest of the road, so that he was out of the way of any traffic, and stopped briefly to arrange another meeting point, then drove off. He didn't 'park' or get out of his car. Whilst he was there a white van drove up the road and stopped opposite but he couldn't see what it was due to the headlights (after he drove back past he saw it was airport parking enforcement, but he assumed that they were just checking he hadn't left the car and hopped on a plane!), they sat and watched him but didn't get out of their vehicle or ask what he was doing, which would have probably resolved the issue easily. He remembers at the time thinking it was ok because he was out of the way, on a closed bit of 'road' and he assumed that if there had been markings or signs visible he would have left immediately. So he didn't think anything of it.

    Fast forward three months, and he got a letter from BW Legal (yes we've read plenty about them!) accompanied by one from Vehicle Control Services Ltd (part of IPC) saying he not only owes £100 but also another £60 for 'outstanding balance on his account' (he notes its not a fine!)

    This is complicated by the fact that this is the first letter he has seen regarding this. He has moved house twice since the incident (he was buying a new place so rented in between) and as such hadn't kept his vehicle registration updated, thinking he'd do so when he moved into his new place rather than doing it twice. Weirdly, having just registered it to his new house, they've written to him at the temporary place, meaning they must have obtained the information by some other means.

    This also means that he may have missed the usual period where they offer the chance to appeal or pay the initial amount.

    So I suppose our questions are as follows:

    1. Can he still go back to the initial company (Vehicle Control Services) and request further info like photos and details of road signage etc or has he missed the chance? Similarly, does he now have to deal with BW Legal or is this a con?
    2. He recognises that he was at fault for not updating his licence/registration documents. Is this a fair defence/mitigating circumstances re a delay?
    3. Many people have said they have tried to challenge re the airport byelaws and the fact that they can't chase the legal owner and can't demand who the driver was - has this proved successful?

    We'd be very grateful for any help or advice on this. In the meantime I'll keep reading other similar examples to see if we can find a way out of it!
    Last edited by Commandante; 21-03-2017 at 10:41 PM.
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Mar 17, 10:24 PM
    • 49,037 Posts
    • 62,490 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 21st Mar 17, 10:24 PM
    • #2
    • 21st Mar 17, 10:24 PM
    Appeal would have been knocked back anyway and at least you haven't said who was driving. Except good old Eric!

    1. Can I still go back to the initial company (Vehicle Control Services) and request further info like photos and details of road signage etc or have I missed my chance?
    You can ask whatever you want, but don't say who was driving.

    Similarly, do I now have to deal with BW Legal or is this a con?
    Both are true. And BW Legal will start a claim, and we win them.

    2. I recognise I was at fault for not updating my licence/registration documents. Is this a fair defence/mitigating circumstances re a delay?
    That's not a feature of your defence, why are you thinking YOU have to makes excuses? This is not your 'fault'. It's a scam. In fact the Government recognise using old addresses for small claims like BW Legal do for VCS, is a scandal that needs addressing:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/government-announce-ccj-review-due-to.html

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-measures-to-protect-consumers-from-debt-claims

    Excel (and other 'cowboys' of their greedy ilk) were also named and shamed in Parliamentary debate this very morning:

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2017-03-21/debates/382789C8-0168-4C4B-8260-0540AF83C7D3/DVLAAndPrivateCarParkingCompanies



    3. Many people have said they have tried to challenge re the airport byelaws and the fact that they can't chase the legal owner and can't demand who the driver was - has this proved successful?
    Of course they can't, because byelaws land is not relevant land so they can't use the POFA 2012 to pursue the registered keeper. But VCS assume the keeper was the driver and BW Legal run with that misleading drivel, and some Judges swallow it I am certain. But not when defended by people on this forum!

    Read other BW Legal threads and the Blogs about VCS and BW Legal and Airport signage, by the Parking Prankster.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 21-03-2017 at 10:47 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Commandante
    • By Commandante 21st Mar 17, 10:42 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Commandante
    • #3
    • 21st Mar 17, 10:42 PM
    • #3
    • 21st Mar 17, 10:42 PM
    Edit made. When the seagulls follow the trawler...
    • Commandante
    • By Commandante 21st Mar 17, 10:48 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Commandante
    • #4
    • 21st Mar 17, 10:48 PM
    • #4
    • 21st Mar 17, 10:48 PM
    Thanks Coupon_Mad ... apologies I don't follow a few bits. You say 'both are true' ... I know you mean they're a con, but do you also mean Eric can no longer deal with VCS and only with BWLegal? Who should he be responding to?

    On the second point, Eric assumed he had to explain the reason for not responding and asking for further info/appeal immediately.
    • Mr.Generous
    • By Mr.Generous 21st Mar 17, 10:55 PM
    • 1,628 Posts
    • 2,429 Thanks
    Mr.Generous
    • #5
    • 21st Mar 17, 10:55 PM
    • #5
    • 21st Mar 17, 10:55 PM
    This is truly dreadful, this is not about controlling dangerous, inconsiderate or lazy parking, this is about making money from people's unfamiliarity with an area and briefly stopping where they could reasonably think they were causing no obstruction and doing no harm. Good luck.
    • Commandante
    • By Commandante 21st Mar 17, 11:13 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Commandante
    • #6
    • 21st Mar 17, 11:13 PM
    • #6
    • 21st Mar 17, 11:13 PM
    Thanks Mr Generous. Eric clearly thought he was doing the right thing by moving into a safe area away from traffic (albiet already late at night when there were few other vehicles). In these current times where there is now increased points for using phones whilst driving, the inability to stop in a safe place to get ones bearings/contact another person and the insistence on being in a constantly moving vehicle almost encourages the offence.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Mar 17, 11:29 PM
    • 49,037 Posts
    • 62,490 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 21st Mar 17, 11:29 PM
    • #7
    • 21st Mar 17, 11:29 PM
    This is truly dreadful, this is not about controlling dangerous, inconsiderate or lazy parking, this is about making money from people's unfamiliarity with an area and briefly stopping where they could reasonably think they were causing no obstruction and doing no harm.
    Originally posted by Mr.Generous
    Exactly what was said in the House of Commons today, in the link shown above.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 22nd Mar 17, 11:12 AM
    • 6,853 Posts
    • 5,878 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #8
    • 22nd Mar 17, 11:12 AM
    • #8
    • 22nd Mar 17, 11:12 AM
    When I am faced with a barrier which will not open when I need it to, I sound my horn continuously until someone attends. It has never not worked.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Commandante
    • By Commandante 24th Mar 17, 3:03 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Commandante
    • #9
    • 24th Mar 17, 3:03 PM
    • #9
    • 24th Mar 17, 3:03 PM
    Well perhaps. Anyway, I've still got an 'invoice' I need to deal with!
    • Commandante
    • By Commandante 19th May 17, 10:22 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Commandante
    Hello everyone. I just wanted to provide an update and get advice on next steps, if I may.

    Eric wrote back to VCS saying that they'd sent the letter to the wrong place and therefore had no initial letter or information about the alleged offence. He asked for them to resend the original letter and full evidence, photographic and otherwise, of the alleged offence to the correct address.

    More than two months later, Eric has received another letter to the correct address simply stating that the details of the 'account' have been passed to a debt recovery company and that all enquiries should be dealt with via them.

    As it stands, therefore Eric still has no original letter or evidence of any alleged offence, just letters saying that they're chasing debts.

    Eric is considering responding, acknowledging the letter, but repeating that photographic evidence and a full explanation of the alleged offence is required (as was presumably provided in the original letter which he didn't receive), and stating that he doesn't recognise any debt or debt collecting company as no offence has been proven.

    Is this a sensible approach for him to take?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 19th May 17, 10:48 AM
    • 15,211 Posts
    • 19,172 Thanks
    Redx
    I would IGNORE them unless ERIC receives an LBC or an MCOL in the post

    the NEWBIES sticky thread does cover all this

    and as BYLAWS apply, after 6 months its no longer valid under the bylaws

    so no different than LJLA threads and posts

    if VCS or BW LEGAL send an actual LBC , then respond by rebutting and denying the claims made

    if an MCOL from Northampton came in the post , acknowledge online and draft a defence
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Commandante
    • By Commandante 19th May 17, 12:05 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Commandante
    So as the alleged offence happened just before Christmas 2016, in a months' time it will no longer be effective?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 19th May 17, 12:10 PM
    • 15,211 Posts
    • 19,172 Thanks
    Redx
    So as the alleged offence happened just before Christmas 2016, in a months' time it will no longer be effective?
    Originally posted by Commandante
    it wont be able to be prosecuted by the AIRPORT under the bylaws in a magistrates court , with magistrates presiding , after 6 months has elapsed

    this wont stop VCS alleging a pcn (a civli invoice) is owed , which they have 6 years to try to enforce using MCOL and civil court

    they dont take these to civil court YET !! SO NO TEST CASES

    and never heard of even ONE bylaws case at an airport going to MAG court as yet
    Last edited by Redx; 19-05-2017 at 12:31 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Commandante
    • By Commandante 19th May 17, 12:28 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Commandante
    Ok thanks
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