Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Callum
    • By MSE Callum 21st Mar 17, 11:41 AM
    • 272Posts
    • 33Thanks
    MSE Callum
    MSE News: Pensions Minister: 'no straws to clutch to' for WASPI campaigners
    • #1
    • 21st Mar 17, 11:41 AM
    MSE News: Pensions Minister: 'no straws to clutch to' for WASPI campaigners 21st Mar 17 at 11:41 AM
    Pensions Minister Richard Harrington has warned it would cost too much to arrange a compromise with WASPI...
    Read the full story:
    'Pensions Minister: 'no straws to clutch to' for Waspi campaigners'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply. If you aren’t sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.
    Last edited by MSE Luke; 23-03-2017 at 1:15 PM.
Page 6
    • Pennylane
    • By Pennylane 13th Jun 17, 8:28 PM
    • 1,995 Posts
    • 5,451 Thanks
    Pennylane
    Whilst I was royally ticked off when i discovered (12 months before retirement at 60 should have happened) that I had to work an extra 2.5 years *faint*

    Even more ticked off when I found out that a colleague born a few short months before me only had an extra 11 months to work! How it was worked out is beyond me but it happened!

    I am now a happily retired woman who has 'got over it'.

    C'mon girls - life really is too short!
    Originally posted by Magnolia
    That's because you get your pension now so you're not bothered about other people. Some of us are still waiting.
  • jamesd
    There's certainly injustice here, with twins born on the same day having had one waiting five years longer than the other and on average dying two years younger. Fortunately the current changes are undoing the first part of that injustice.

    I suppose we could go back to the state pension calculations we had when the increase to 65 was introduced but it would be bad for most women if we did. You see, under those rules a woman with 35 years towards the state pension would be entitled to 35/43rd of the basic state pension. 35/43*122.30 = £99.54 a week. Or 35/48 for men.

    Then that was cut from 43 to 30 qualifying years in a move mainly intended to increase the state pensions of women. That increased the payment from £99.54 to the full £122.30 a week for the same 35 years counting.

    The single tier pension changes also largely help women, cutting the state pensions for those with lots of working years to help pay for it. The single tier pension is £159.55 a week with 35 years required to get it, so the same woman with the same record would now get £159.55 if she reached state pension age from April 2016. Wanting to go back to 60 is particularly nasty for the women who would lose this big increase from £122.30 to £159.55 if it took their state pension age to before 6 April 2016.

    The rules on credits have also changed over the years in ways that have largely benefited women.

    While some women are having difficulties due to age equalisation, the large increases to the state pensions that those with limited earnings records get as a result of these changes are greatly increasing the state pensions that women, particularly those with limited paid work record, get.
    Last edited by jamesd; 14-06-2017 at 7:10 AM.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 14th Jun 17, 6:04 AM
    • 17,353 Posts
    • 44,210 Thanks
    Pollycat
    That's because you get your pension now so you're not bothered about other people. Some of us are still waiting.
    Originally posted by Pennylane
    I'm bothered about those women who are in financial hardship because of the changes to women's pension age.

    I'm not bothered about those (WASPI) women who aren't - and feel it appropriate to post selfies of themselves travelling first class to demonstrations and guzzling champagne.

    And I'm still waiting for my pension too.
    But I've also 'got over it'.

    Pennylane - where does equality sit with you?
    As jamesd has pointed out (many times) why do you think it fair that a women born on the same day as a man should receive her state pension before him?
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 14th Jun 17, 11:43 AM
    • 2,596 Posts
    • 3,701 Thanks
    Malthusian
    As jamesd has pointed out (many times) why do you think it fair that a women born on the same day as a man should receive her state pension before him?
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Because she was going to get her pension five years earlier than that man so she wasn't bothered about other people...

    Incidentally, I was interested to discover that WASPI was banging the drum for at least two years before it all really kicked off in 2015 - before it was known under that name. At least some of its founders handed a petition into the DWP in March 2015, a month before WASPI was founded in April 2015. As far as I could tell, the proto-WASPI petition in March 2015 garnered no mainstream press coverage whatsoever. How things have changed.

    The proto-WASPI petition failed because it only demanded the reversal of the 2012 Pensions Act - the acceleration of some State Pension Age rises by up to 18 months. Today many of us would sympathise with that aim, but in 2015 the campaign hadn't gained any noticeable momentum. The number of people severely affected was too small, and the question had been settled only a few years ago and the time to protest had passed.

    WASPI, as we know, went the whole hog and demanded the reversal of the 1995 Pensions Act and the restoration of State Pension Age at 60 to women born in the 1950s - but they kept this detail vague (restricted to their Facebook page, then moved to the "Info" tab, then removed from public view altogether) so that people would sign the petition without knowing what they were really supporting. This allowed them to build the critical mass that proto-WASPI couldn't.

    The lesson is simple. If you are going to demand something, make it big. There is no place for reasonable requests in politics. You need to make your demands big enough that the size of the prize overcomes your supporters' natural aversion to asking for handouts, while couching them in vagueness to avoid alienating potential sympathisers.

    Of course you might say that WASPI failed just as much as proto-WASPI did, because while they garnered more support they still failed in all of their aims. But that ignores the fact that WASPI got to swan around the country, appear on TV and drink champagne in first-class carriages.

    I had never heard of the proto-WASPI so I found it very interesting.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 14th Jun 17, 12:22 PM
    • 17,353 Posts
    • 44,210 Thanks
    Pollycat
    Because she was going to get her pension five years earlier than that man so she wasn't bothered about other people...

    Incidentally, I was interested to discover that WASPI was banging the drum for at least two years before it all really kicked off in 2015 - before it was known under that name. At least some of its founders handed a petition into the DWP in March 2015, a month before WASPI was founded in April 2015. As far as I could tell, the proto-WASPI petition in March 2015 garnered no mainstream press coverage whatsoever. How things have changed.

    Duplicitous?

    The proto-WASPI petition failed because it only demanded the reversal of the 2012 Pensions Act - the acceleration of some State Pension Age rises by up to 18 months. Today many of us would sympathise with that aim, but in 2015 the campaign hadn't gained any noticeable momentum. The number of people severely affected was too small, and the question had been settled only a few years ago and the time to protest had passed.

    WASPI, as we know, went the whole hog and demanded the reversal of the 1995 Pensions Act and the restoration of State Pension Age at 60 to women born in the 1950s - but they kept this detail vague (restricted to their Facebook page, then moved to the "Info" tab, then removed from public view altogether) so that people would sign the petition without knowing what they were really supporting. This allowed them to build the critical mass that proto-WASPI couldn't.

    The lesson is simple. If you are going to demand something, make it big. There is no place for reasonable requests in politics. You need to make your demands big enough that the size of the prize overcomes your supporters' natural aversion to asking for handouts, while couching them in vagueness to avoid alienating potential sympathisers.

    Of course you might say that WASPI failed just as much as proto-WASPI did, because while they garnered more support they still failed in all of their aims. But that ignores the fact that WASPI got to swan around the country, appear on TV and drink champagne in first-class carriages.

    I had never heard of the proto-WASPI so I found it very interesting.
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    I was one of the women who was hood-winked into signing the petition because what was in the petition didn't tally with what was on the WASPI Facebook page.
    • Pennylane
    • By Pennylane 14th Jun 17, 10:31 PM
    • 1,995 Posts
    • 5,451 Thanks
    Pennylane
    A man born on the same day as me will get his pension just 3 months after me.

    A female friend of mine is just 2 months older but will get her pension 8 months before me.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 15th Jun 17, 7:55 AM
    • 17,353 Posts
    • 44,210 Thanks
    Pollycat
    A man born on the same day as me will get his pension just 3 months after me.

    A female friend of mine is just 2 months older but will get her pension 8 months before me.
    Originally posted by Pennylane
    <<sigh>>
    You're missing the point.

    It's about equality!
    That means bringing the state pension age of men and women in line so that people born on the same day get their pension on the same day.

    As the starting point was 5 years difference, of course it was necessary to phase the changes.

    You need to forget about when other women are getting their state pension and compare your pension date with a man born on the same day as you.
    Do you really not think it's unfair that a man born on the same day as you should have to wait 3 months to receive his pension?
    • Clifford_Pope
    • By Clifford_Pope 15th Jun 17, 1:23 PM
    • 3,297 Posts
    • 3,309 Thanks
    Clifford_Pope
    I think it's unfair that women on average will live longer than me, but I'm not letting it bother me. Life's a bit unfair, not nearly as much here as in some parts of the world.
    • Pennylane
    • By Pennylane 15th Jun 17, 7:30 PM
    • 1,995 Posts
    • 5,451 Thanks
    Pennylane
    <<sigh>>
    You're missing the point.

    It's about equality!
    That means bringing the state pension age of men and women in line so that people born on the same day get their pension on the same day.

    As the starting point was 5 years difference, of course it was necessary to phase the changes.

    You need to forget about when other women are getting their state pension and compare your pension date with a man born on the same day as you.
    Do you really not think it's unfair that a man born on the same day as you should have to wait 3 months to receive his pension?
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Why should I forget about when other women get their pensions when it's grossly unfair? I've just given an example of a man having to wait 3 months longer than me which isn't too band TBH. It's not right but it's not too bad considering I have female friends born just 8 and 11 months before me and they've been getting their pensions for a couple of YEARS.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 15th Jun 17, 7:56 PM
    • 17,353 Posts
    • 44,210 Thanks
    Pollycat
    Why should I forget about when other women get their pensions when it's grossly unfair? I've just given an example of a man having to wait 3 months longer than me which isn't too band TBH. It's not right but it's not too bad considering I have female friends born just 8 and 11 months before me and they've been getting their pensions for a couple of YEARS.
    Originally posted by Pennylane
    You really don't get it at all, do you?

    That's because you get your pension now so you're not bothered about other people. Some of us are still waiting.
    Originally posted by Pennylane
    Pot.
    Kettle.

    Typical GRASPI 'me me' woman.
    • Daniel54
    • By Daniel54 15th Jun 17, 9:18 PM
    • 568 Posts
    • 661 Thanks
    Daniel54
    Why should I forget about when other women get their pensions when it's grossly unfair?
    Originally posted by Pennylane
    So your key grouse is that you are envious of women who get to SPA before you,but not much bothered about about the very many more men and women who will have to wait longer than you.?

    Waspi Ltd actuslly don't have much interest in the 2011 act and it's distortions ,as they are all about bridging pension and backdated compo to insulate themselves from both 1995 and 2011.
    • RickyB2000
    • By RickyB2000 15th Jun 17, 10:31 PM
    • 297 Posts
    • 173 Thanks
    RickyB2000
    Why should I forget about when other women get their pensions when it's grossly unfair? I've just given an example of a man having to wait 3 months longer than me which isn't too band TBH. It's not right but it's not too bad considering I have female friends born just 8 and 11 months before me and they've been getting their pensions for a couple of YEARS.
    Originally posted by Pennylane
    I hear you on this. I am annoyed that students before me didn't get crippling loans. I am annoyed that Corbyn was offering to get rid of loans for students after me. I am annoyed that I don't have a final salary pension like others older than me do. I am annoyed that my pension age has increased, when people older than me got to retire at an earlier age. I am annoyed that my parents got to buy a 'cheap' house, and then got significant wage increases. God life is annoying, people older than me have it so much better!
    • chiefie
    • By chiefie 16th Jun 17, 7:16 AM
    • 286 Posts
    • 298 Thanks
    chiefie
    I hear you on this. I am annoyed that students before me didn't get crippling loans. I am annoyed that Corbyn was offering to get rid of loans for students after me. I am annoyed that I don't have a final salary pension like others older than me do. I am annoyed that my pension age has increased, when people older than me got to retire at an earlier age. I am annoyed that my parents got to buy a 'cheap' house, and then got significant wage increases. God life is annoying, people older than me have it so much better!
    Originally posted by RickyB2000
    I'm in my fifties. My first mortgage was for £40,000 and was the maximum me and the wife could borrow. The interest rate was 11.4%. I had an old Renault 5 with rust where the body should have been and the wife used a moped to get to work. Myension age is two years above where I expected it to be and rising. I'm annoyed, but like you I'm really worried for younger people and my kids. But don't blame other generations, blame the lame politicians and their short term get me re-elected every 4 years approach. Rise up, vote for change but don't vote through envy or to pit generations against each other - we have enough of that already.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 16th Jun 17, 12:32 PM
    • 2,596 Posts
    • 3,701 Thanks
    Malthusian
    I hear you on this. I am annoyed that students before me didn't get crippling loans. I am annoyed that Corbyn was offering to get rid of loans for students after me. I am annoyed that I don't have a final salary pension like others older than me do. I am annoyed that my pension age has increased, when people older than me got to retire at an earlier age. I am annoyed that my parents got to buy a 'cheap' house, and then got significant wage increases. God life is annoying, people older than me have it so much better!
    Originally posted by RickyB2000
    Amen, comrade, being young is such a pain in the !!!!. But I have good news for you - if you fervently wish to be old then it will happen much sooner than you think. Nothing accelerates the aging process faster than bitterness and refusing to take control of one's own life. Yes you will have thrown away the vitality, energy and athleticism of youth, but what's the point of having those when they don't entitle you to anything?
    • RickyB2000
    • By RickyB2000 16th Jun 17, 1:42 PM
    • 297 Posts
    • 173 Thanks
    RickyB2000
    I'm really not asking for much. Just a redistribution of wealth from everyone else to me. Can't really say fairer than that.
    • Aretnap
    • By Aretnap 16th Jun 17, 1:50 PM
    • 2,681 Posts
    • 2,134 Thanks
    Aretnap
    I'm really not asking for much. Just a redistribution of wealth from everyone else to me. Can't really say fairer than that.
    Originally posted by RickyB2000


    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 16th Jun 17, 3:06 PM
    • 577 Posts
    • 564 Thanks
    badmemory
    Sometimes when I am feeling particularly bitter and twisted, I wonder what it would be like if the mortgage rates for some in their 30s went up, not at the end of their fix, but for next months payment to over 15%. Or if a woman now was told sorry you can't have a mortgage unless you can get some man to guarantee it. A couple's mortgage was based mostly on the man's income because after all she was going to have children.

    When university education was free but for so many fewer. University education was only increased because youth unemployment rates were soaring - it wasn't for the benefit of either the students or business, just the government statistics.

    I am convinced that this student indebtedness was what caused general debt to spiral because debt became okay. I am retired & have no way of increasing my income which is way way lower than average income & the CRAs don't show savings. I got 2 (interest free) loans within 3 months of each other totalling almost double my annual income. What were they thinking? That would be loads of profit then when it went past the 0%.

    I do feel sorry for the youth today but I do wish they would blame those that caused the problems they have and not people just because they are older. Blame the people who sold off our manufacturing to foreign cos, even our power cos are foreign owned. Even systems we depend on for security or times of war are foreign owned.
    • RickyB2000
    • By RickyB2000 16th Jun 17, 3:32 PM
    • 297 Posts
    • 173 Thanks
    RickyB2000


    Originally posted by Aretnap
    He gets it!
    • RickyB2000
    • By RickyB2000 16th Jun 17, 3:41 PM
    • 297 Posts
    • 173 Thanks
    RickyB2000
    Sometimes when I am feeling particularly bitter and twisted, I wonder what it would be like if the mortgage rates for some in their 30s went up, not at the end of their fix, but for next months payment to over 15%. Or if a woman now was told sorry you can't have a mortgage unless you can get some man to guarantee it. A couple's mortgage was based mostly on the man's income because after all she was going to have children.

    When university education was free but for so many fewer. University education was only increased because youth unemployment rates were soaring - it wasn't for the benefit of either the students or business, just the government statistics.

    I am convinced that this student indebtedness was what caused general debt to spiral because debt became okay. I am retired & have no way of increasing my income which is way way lower than average income & the CRAs don't show savings. I got 2 (interest free) loans within 3 months of each other totalling almost double my annual income. What were they thinking? That would be loads of profit then when it went past the 0%.

    I do feel sorry for the youth today but I do wish they would blame those that caused the problems they have and not people just because they are older. Blame the people who sold off our manufacturing to foreign cos, even our power cos are foreign owned. Even systems we depend on for security or times of war are foreign owned.
    Originally posted by badmemory
    I was having a bitter and twisted moment when I wrote that. Though it was actually meant as a tongue in cheek response to the quoted poster who was saying it was not fair someone older had something better than they did. Pretty much everyone has similar stories - and the reality is money has to come from somewhere to pay for everything and we seem to be getting poorer as a nation (or stuff is getting more expensive). Given the choice, would WAPSI rather all women got these pensions, or that after helping those who are truly destitute, the money was spent on reducing the costs for their children/grand children to go to university or various other causes the money could be spent on?
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 16th Jun 17, 4:14 PM
    • 2,596 Posts
    • 3,701 Thanks
    Malthusian
    Pretty much everyone has similar stories - and the reality is money has to come from somewhere to pay for everything and we seem to be getting poorer as a nation (or stuff is getting more expensive).
    Neither. Expectations are rising. People complain they don't have enough money to pay the rent, or the rising cost of goods, because they are spending money on things that didn't exist 10 years ago, or 20 or 40.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

155Posts Today

1,043Users online

Martin's Twitter