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  • FIRST POST
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 20th Mar 17, 4:18 PM
    • 12,503Posts
    • 5,168Thanks
    cyclonebri1
    i have a double barrelled topic here
    • #1
    • 20th Mar 17, 4:18 PM
    i have a double barrelled topic here 20th Mar 17 at 4:18 PM
    I have been involved here in my first ever parking issue with a private "cowboy company", loads of thanks to those that try to help.

    However, whilst I hang around I get alarmed at the constant advice to posters to "read the stickies, do the newbie thing? etc"

    To be honest incomers are largely panicking and will ask before doing a search that may even be beyond them, ie what search term etc.
    So, I'm asking, don't do the do a sticky search to death, we understand but most cases have some individuality, an effort to respect that would go down well from those who are here to help?

    So to my second point, given I'm not afraid to face my pursuing cowboys in court, but has anyone actually claimed against them for illegal harassment or such like in the county court, a preemptive attack so to speak?

    Again from the newbie parking alleged offender, this stuff does have a stress related impact and a life effect.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
Page 1
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 20th Mar 17, 4:27 PM
    • 1,293 Posts
    • 2,380 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #2
    • 20th Mar 17, 4:27 PM
    • #2
    • 20th Mar 17, 4:27 PM
    this stuff does have a stress related impact and a life effect.
    Actually it doesn't. It only has this effect if you allow it. It's the same with any bully.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 20th Mar 17, 4:29 PM
    • 39,235 Posts
    • 78,383 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #3
    • 20th Mar 17, 4:29 PM
    • #3
    • 20th Mar 17, 4:29 PM
    The problem for the regulars is that we got the same questions over and over again. If Newbies read the NEWBIES sticky first, or at last gave it a good go after being asked to read it, the regulars would have a lot less questions to answer and more time to do it, and allowing them a better chance to answer specific questions or giving specific advice.

    My most common reply to posts on here is, the advice to ignore has not been given here since the law changed in 2012, edit your post to remove any information about who did what as you have revealed the driver's identity, it is not a fine, then ask them to read the NEWBIES thread, then ask them to send the relevant template appeal, then come back if they need more help.
    Another fairly regular reply I find I make is, what is the name of the parking company?

    Time after time we then get, what is PoFA, what is a PPC, what does MCOL mean, what's an NTK? All that information has been hundreds of hours to generate. It behoves anyone coming here to spend at least a little time looking at this masterpiece instead of blindly asking questions that are already answered.

    As for your second question, harassment is very difficult to prove, but increasingly the best fight back method has been to go for a DPA breach which has had some reported success, and is easier to prove.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 20-04-2017 at 5:07 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 20th Mar 17, 4:29 PM
    • 2,433 Posts
    • 2,461 Thanks
    DoaM
    • #4
    • 20th Mar 17, 4:29 PM
    • #4
    • 20th Mar 17, 4:29 PM
    The recommendation in any forum is to read the stickies/FAQs first. It's not an MSE thing - it's a forum thing.

    And if newbies did actually read it first, they could then post and ask relevant questions rather than simply HELP HELP HELP! I'M PANICKING! I DON'T KNOW HOW TO TIE MY SHOELACES!

    As regards preemptive strikes ... it has been talked about before; I'm not sure if anyone has actually taken it to court though.

    Obviously there's the Davey v UKPC case, but that was a case of trespass (residential parking space) and Davey was himself a barrister. (Not like the IAS baristas).
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 20th Mar 17, 7:35 PM
    • 13,145 Posts
    • 20,542 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 20th Mar 17, 7:35 PM
    • #5
    • 20th Mar 17, 7:35 PM

    However, whilst I hang around I get alarmed at the constant advice to posters to "read the stickies, do the newbie thing? etc"

    To be honest incomers are largely panicking and will ask before doing a search that may even be beyond them, ie what search term etc.
    So, I'm asking, don't do the do a sticky search to death, we understand but most cases have some individuality, an effort to respect that would go down well from those who are here to help.
    It's impossible to trot out the same, relatively complicated initial advice for every new thread we get. There's no more than a handful of regulars doing the heavy lifting each day and there are dozens of new threads every day.

    We've moved from the easy 'ignore the PCN' (thanks to PoFA 2012), to how to construct a winning POPLA appeal (now that the legally trained London Councils' POPLA Assessors are no more, and replaced by former nail technicians, soft porn authors and ex call centre staff), to the infinitely more complex, detailed and potentially costly 'please sort out my defence, witness statement and skeleton argument for me, I'm in court in a few weeks time' now that 30 - 40 private parking cases are appearing in the county courts across England and Wales every day of the working week.

    Today's list:


    Court Claim Number Claimant Comments
    Bolton C7DP0H3T Excel Parking Services
    Bolton C3FC2D4J ParkingEye
    Bolton C2DP2D5A Vehicle Control Services
    Bristol C5GF86CX Link Parking
    Bury B1FC155T ParkingEye Set Aside
    Canterbury D4GF9733 Parking Control Management (UK) Set Aside
    Clerkenwell C7DP6C2D Excel Parking Services
    Clerkenwell C5GF1V9R Gemini Parking Solutions London
    Clerkenwell C6GF2E0R Pace Recovery And Storage
    Clerkenwell C8GF8Y2N Private Parking Solutions (London)
    Clerkenwell C0GF9N9C UK Car Park Management
    Clerkenwell C0GF6N1C UK Car Park Management
    Clerkenwell C0GF7N2C UK Car Park Management
    Clerkenwell C0GF5N3C UK Car Park Management
    Clerkenwell C3HW9G9N UK Parking Control
    Leicester C3GF1N1A Parking And Property Management
    Leicester C4GF2N7A Parking And Property Management
    Leicester C9GF8P9R Parking And Property Management
    Leicester C3GF9N3Z SIP Parking
    Leicester C8DP7H3H Vehicle Control Services
    Port Talbot C9GF5T82 New Generation Parking Management Set Aside
    Stockport C0DP4W57 Excel Parking Services
    Stockport C8DP6C9M Excel Parking Services
    Stockport C5DP8C4M Excel Parking Services
    Stockport C9DP3C4D Excel Parking Services
    Stockport C7DP8F40 Excel Parking Services
    Stockport C8DP58P3/2 Excel Parking Services From 21-11-2016
    Stockport C5DP0C9G Excel Parking Services
    Stockport C6DP4C8M Excel Parking Services
    Stockport C0DP7C4V Excel Parking Services
    Stockport C3DP5C0M Excel Parking Services
    Stockport C3DP5C5M Excel Parking Services
    Stockport C3DP3C9M Excel Parking Services
    Stockport C0DP3W30 Excel Parking Services
    Stockport C0DP3C6E Excel Parking Services
    Stockport C0DP7C8E Excel Parking Services
    Stockport C5FC3J2D ParkingEye
    Stockport C5GF9N8C SIP Parking
    Stoke on Trent C9FC8J5D ParkingEye
    Stoke on Trent C9DP4H3Y Vehicle Control Services
    Uxbridge C8GF2C40 Parking Control Management (UK) Set Aside
    Uxbridge C3GF53K3 Parking Control Management (UK) Set Aside
    Watford C6FC154T ParkingEye
    Willesden C9FC0M3N ParkingEye

    44 cases - just another day at the office!

    Now, if you've got the time to bone up on this stuff and are prepared to put in dozens upon dozens of hours each week, then come and join us. Provide detailed responses to each and every query known to man in private parking, then the small handful of us would very much welcome your involvement. The job's yours, when can you start?

    By the way, I'm doing most of this stuff from the other side of the world.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 20th Mar 17, 8:28 PM
    • 3,593 Posts
    • 5,087 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #6
    • 20th Mar 17, 8:28 PM
    • #6
    • 20th Mar 17, 8:28 PM
    I find your post offensive to Cowboys, who are highly skilled cow herders, and horsemen, comparing them with the PPC world is a little low.

    As for the please read the sticky advice, this place sees a huge workload placed on its volunteer helpers, the sticky is a useful tool in getting people to see what they are dealing with and how to deal with it, once that has been digested then its time to add to the post.
    Some replies may seem blunt, and at times rude but, with limited time available and panicking OP's theres not much else that can be done or said.

    So your dealing with a PPC which PPC is it? why did you get a ticket?
    The best advice is not to panic, PPC letters are designed to make people do that and either pay up, or do something daft, like give away any chance of a successful challenge, or even court defence.
    Again most Parking letters can be seen off with a complaint to the landowner who took on the PPC - as long as the right things are said and done, avoiding the faff of creating a POPLA appeal, and any other issues.
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • H14nha
    • By H14nha 20th Mar 17, 9:53 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    H14nha
    • #7
    • 20th Mar 17, 9:53 PM
    • #7
    • 20th Mar 17, 9:53 PM
    For me as a newbie, its the acronyms which are tricky. I understand to you guys it's second nature, but trying to read the stickies to see what applies to you whilst decoding the sentence it somewhat tough.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Mar 17, 12:05 AM
    • 46,959 Posts
    • 60,319 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 21st Mar 17, 12:05 AM
    • #8
    • 21st Mar 17, 12:05 AM
    Fair enough - the trouble is on this forum we have to cover so much ground, we never drop a ball and I know that we answer every thread every day, over 3 pages usually. And like many here, I have a day job, full time and have to be in my office before 8am...

    Hence short replies & acronyms save us time!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 21st Mar 17, 9:00 AM
    • 686 Posts
    • 1,721 Thanks
    nicechap
    • #9
    • 21st Mar 17, 9:00 AM
    • #9
    • 21st Mar 17, 9:00 AM
    I have been involved here in my first ever parking issue with a private "cowboy company", loads of thanks to those that try to help.

    However, whilst I hang around I get alarmed at the constant advice to posters to "read the stickies, do the newbie thing? etc"

    To be honest incomers are largely panicking and will ask before doing a search that may even be beyond them, ie what search term etc.
    So, I'm asking, don't do the do a sticky search to death, we understand but most cases have some individuality, an effort to respect that would go down well from those who are here to help?

    So to my second point, given I'm not afraid to face my pursuing cowboys in court, but has anyone actually claimed against them for illegal harassment or such like in the county court, a preemptive attack so to speak?

    Again from the newbie parking alleged offender, this stuff does have a stress related impact and a life effect.
    Originally posted by cyclonebri1

    On your first point I think you are wrong.

    If people want to get individually spoon fed advice they are free to employ a solicitor and pay accordingly.

    This sub forum is a fantastic resource which is a real pain for PPCs. A few dedicated people give up their free time to save consumers loads of money (probably millions over the years).

    On your second point, and to illustrate my earlier reply; have you tried searching the forum?

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/search.php?searchid=171643930
    Quote was right and saw into the future.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 21st Mar 17, 10:14 AM
    • 39,235 Posts
    • 78,383 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    For me as a newbie, its the acronyms which are tricky. I understand to you guys it's second nature, but trying to read the stickies to see what applies to you whilst decoding the sentence it somewhat tough.
    Originally posted by H14nha
    My advice is to print out the acronyms page and have it by you whenever looking at posts on here. If an acronym isn't covered, it may be that it can be found relatively easily using an internet search.
    Some are not always obvious though, so if unsure you can always ask and one of the friendly regulars will provide an answer.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 21st Mar 17, 10:58 AM
    • 6,578 Posts
    • 5,521 Thanks
    The Deep
    There are always people who will fall for parking scams, just as there are people who will shop at Brighthouse, sell their scrap gold for a pittance, and buy Dolphin bathrooms.

    Often, such people are those who can least afford to part with their money, but we cannot save them all. All we can do ususally is point them in the right direction and that is where the stickies come in, they are a road map, not a magic bullet, and, until local authorities put as much effort into consumer protection as it does in politically correct posturing, we are stuck with it.

    In most cases parking charges could have been avoided with a little foresight, but the means are there to avoid payment, but it does require a certain amount of effort, and those who have failed to prosper are likely to be the most affected.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 21st Mar 17, 1:07 PM
    • 7,127 Posts
    • 7,147 Thanks
    pogofish
    To be honest incomers are largely panicking and will ask before doing a search

    So, I'm asking, don't do the do a sticky search to death, we understand but most cases have some individuality, an effort to respect that would go down well from those who are here to help?
    Originally posted by cyclonebri1

    But to get to the point where they can post to ask, newbies have already confirmed a basic understanding of searching and basic posting issues - which include search, hijacking, seeking legal advice, reading the stickies etc. In the vast majority of instances, their questions simply need not arise.

    "Individuality" is one of the biggest mistakes new posters make - All people with a PPC ticket are essentially in exactly the same position, with only a very few and notable exceptions. However thinking that they are different or their case is somehow unusual or special near-inevitably risks failure or identification to PPCs in ways that could make things more difficult for them down the line.

    Adopting a standardised approach will in the first instance ensure they retain the widest range of options for the later stages where both standard arguments and any individual circumstances count and minimise the risks of further consequences - Which can only be a good thing!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 21st Mar 17, 5:50 PM
    • 13,145 Posts
    • 20,542 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Only a single input from Cyclonebri for his double barrelled topic. Where are you fella? Surely some response for those regulars who have given of their time to respond sensibly to your observations?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • catfunt
    • By catfunt 21st Mar 17, 7:09 PM
    • 583 Posts
    • 886 Thanks
    catfunt
    My usual advice to posts such as the OP, is -

    Read the Newbies thread and read it carefully.
    You may need to read it 2-3 times for the information to go in.

    You will get help on here, but due to the workload (already mentioned in previous posts on this thread) you simply have to do some of the legwork yourself.
    Got a Private Parking Notice??
    ** Do Not Pay
    ** Do Not Ignore a Notice to Keeper (except Scotland)
    ** Do not mention who was driving (No "Me" Myself" "I")
    ** Never, ever phone a Private Parking Company
    ** Please read the NEWBIES thread at the top of the forum
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 23rd Mar 17, 9:25 PM
    • 12,503 Posts
    • 5,168 Thanks
    cyclonebri1
    Only a single input from Cyclonebri for his double barrelled topic. Where are you fella? Surely some response for those regulars who have given of their time to respond sensibly to your observations?
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Don't worry, I'm here.

    My point is this, I'm thick skinned, I've been hanging around here for 10 years, more than most, and have given much more detailed and helpful advice than I have asked for but I do find the repetition of "do a search" offensive to newcomers, not to me, to newcomers.

    There is a very abrupt answer, if you wish to give your "time to respond sensibly" then please accept it's not being rejected, it is simply overwhelming to some folks and a personal reply in times of panic is appreciated.

    To say this has been "done to death" simply does not help.

    These are people saying do I sign this form or don't I?
    Last edited by cyclonebri1; 23-03-2017 at 9:28 PM.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 23rd Mar 17, 9:34 PM
    • 12,503 Posts
    • 5,168 Thanks
    cyclonebri1
    On your first point I think you are wrong.

    If people want to get individually spoon fed advice they are free to employ a solicitor and pay accordingly.

    This sub forum is a fantastic resource which is a real pain for PPCs. A few dedicated people give up their free time to save consumers loads of money (probably millions over the years).

    On your second point, and to illustrate my earlier reply; have you tried searching the forum?

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/search.php?searchid=171643930
    Originally posted by nicechap
    Sorry chap but to say that is offensive to anyone coming to this forum for the first time.

    Again, this is not about me, it's about people who haven't a clue how to proceed, firing off a shot whilst doing further research is exactly the right thing to do, sorry if that escapes you.

    Have I searched the forum? what better example to the point I've made could you give.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Mar 17, 11:13 PM
    • 46,959 Posts
    • 60,319 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    However, whilst I hang around I get alarmed at the constant advice to posters to "read the stickies, do the newbie thing? etc"
    At the time, someone had to write the NEWBIES thread because we were utterly drowning under 'hellllp...I've got some debt collector letters and I've not bothered to search the forum and I'm convinced I'm the only person ever to have got these, heeellllpp' type posts.

    It was stopping us dealing with the people who really needed tailored advice. We would have dropped the ball on this forum completely a good 2 or 3 YEARS ago, if we hadn't changed things to put some basic stuff up on a sticky thread. And the template appeal has helped relieve the pressure and we get plenty of people using it without ever posting for help (posters have confirmed afterwards that the NEWBIES thread worked for them and they won, without ever starting a thread). Good!

    If you look at how many new posts we field every day (usually averaging 3 pages worth every day) there is no way we could answer everyone individually.

    And why can't people search the forum, not being funny but if someone has a Gladstones letter surely the first thing they do when finding this forum is to shove the word 'Gladstones letter' into 'search this forum'.

    In fact people who search and read other threads learn soooo much more than those sitting in splendid isolation shouting 'help'.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 24th Mar 17, 8:16 AM
    • 12,503 Posts
    • 5,168 Thanks
    cyclonebri1
    I agree with everything you've said.

    However try it from this perspective.(I'm trying to explain this the way a newbie would see it)


    This section of the forum is very focused on parking tickets/charges and how to deal with them. It's become a victim of it's own success and if anything there is simply too much information to soak up so there is a very real temptation to simply ask the question direct.
    I do understand that that is the reason the stickies were put in place, but they too are now very big chunks of info and take a fair bit of wading through.

    Another view I have is that the newbie has read some, not all the available info, feels like he/she is drowning so blurts out a specific case based question when really the question they should ask is this, "Has anything changed re parking charge guidance that isn't at the top of the sticky page". It's not too long ago that the advice was ignore the lot, not true any longer but other advice will change long term.

    Finally, it's not telling someone to do a search that folks will find offensive, it's telling them to do a search in a proper way, not "go away and do a search" because that's the implication that it gives.

    I'm talking treatment of newbies rather than specific advice, I did a post many years ago that MSE removed, it was written in pure sarcasm but was based on how I'd seen people "talk" to low score or new poster. It had around 20 thanks when it was removed after a week so obviously rang true with some.

    Entitled; Rules on how to treat newbies, rule 1 was GO AWAY, and do a search

    This is aimed at no 1 in particular, it isn't really about this part of the forum, just treatment of people that are not familiar with how things work and don't always ask the right question.

    There only 2 reasons to be on here if you exclude trolling, to give help or to ask for help, I don't want to see people deterred and then posting such things as I'm off, never coming back here again etc

    Sorry for the post, it's just intended to make advisors think about how their replies may be misinterpreted and is aimed at absolutely no one in particular, just our community as a whole.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • bergkamp
    • By bergkamp 24th Mar 17, 12:14 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    bergkamp
    Newbies posting on this specific forum are from the general public.


    This means that they range from the intelligent, to the stupid members of society...


    All the information needed to fight a parking charge notice is in the newbies sticky, and reading it is the starting point for a newbie to understand what they are dealing with.


    IMO catfunt sums it up nicely;


    My usual advice to posts such as the OP, is -

    Read the Newbies thread and read it carefully.
    You may need to read it 2-3 times for the information to go in.

    You will get help on here, but due to the workload (already mentioned in previous posts on this thread) you simply have to do some of the legwork yourself.
    Why the OP takes it upon themselves to be offended for all newbies is beyond me....
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 24th Mar 17, 1:13 PM
    • 39,235 Posts
    • 78,383 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    As I said, one of my common responses is to tell a newbie to edit out their personal information.
    I have done it today, and did it twice yesterday. The one today used their real name!

    I then ask people to "please read the Sticky thread for NEWBIES ..." often followed by, "then send the BPA/IPC template you will find there.

    We have hordes of people coming here every day. I'm not an expert but I know where the expert advice is, so I guide posters to it in the best way I know.

    I don't know how you expect the regulars to deal with the monstrous amount of information requested on a daily basis without pushing them in a certain direction and then asking them to do their homework first.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 20-04-2017 at 5:11 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
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