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  • FIRST POST
    • rentmekid
    • By rentmekid 20th Mar 17, 2:33 PM
    • 41Posts
    • 14Thanks
    rentmekid
    Why do tenants have so many rights
    • #1
    • 20th Mar 17, 2:33 PM
    Why do tenants have so many rights 20th Mar 17 at 2:33 PM
    Hi there,


    I am thinking about becoming a landlord for the first time and one of the main issues that is concerning me is the control that tenants can have over their landlords.


    From many posts that I have read, on this forum and others, it seems like tenants can move into a property, look for loopholes, problems, etc, and then decide not to pay their rent, which can often take months for the landlord to evict.


    If I was stop paying mortgage payments to my own house, the bank would be breathing right down my neck.


    How can this be possible? and when the landlord goes chasing for the money, he can be accused of not allowing the tenant to enjoy his home in peace.


    Just because the tenant is paying rent, doesn't mean he owns the house. Surely there must be more rights for the landlord


    For example, if I was to hire a car, my deposit wouldn't protected and I'm fairly sure I wouldn't think the car is mine.


    Can anyone give me their opinions?
Page 3
    • elsien
    • By elsien 20th Mar 17, 3:55 PM
    • 14,515 Posts
    • 35,951 Thanks
    elsien
    Oh I don't know.
    I think watching "Can't pay we'll take it away" to form his opinions is very thorough of the OP and due to this research and being fully aware of all his obligations as a landlord he should head off and get on with it.
    As previously stated, what could possibly go wrong?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • rentmekid
    • By rentmekid 20th Mar 17, 3:58 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    rentmekid
    elsien - you went wrong
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 20th Mar 17, 4:04 PM
    • 2,277 Posts
    • 2,873 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    cakeguts - best advice I have had so far
    Originally posted by rentmekid
    Good so no time like the present to get started then. Start by reading up on landlord's responsibilities so that you don't end up with a prison sentence or a large fine.
    Last edited by Cakeguts; 20-03-2017 at 5:00 PM.
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 20th Mar 17, 4:13 PM
    • 2,853 Posts
    • 4,851 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    cakeguts - best advice I have had so far
    Originally posted by rentmekid
    Considering you didn't actually ask for advice that was very helpful of cakeguts. You actually asked for opinions on why it is fair for tenant to have so many rights especially if they don't pay rent. That is an entirely different question to asking for help with advice needed to become a landlord so that would be why you haven't had any responses to the question you didn't actually ask.
    • benjus
    • By benjus 20th Mar 17, 4:37 PM
    • 4,791 Posts
    • 2,863 Thanks
    benjus
    I don't know why you think that tenants have lots of rights. Personally I think they don't have nearly enough, and certainly less than many continental European countries. (and I speak as a former landlord as well as a former tenant - now I'm completely out of the renting world and not missing it)

    A lot of the landlord horror stories you may have read on this board are largely of the landlord's own making. Some landlords seem to have a view of how they think landlord/tenant law should work and try to impose that on the tenant. Then the tenant does a bit of research (sometimes with the help of this board) and things start looking rather bad for the landlord.

    The landlords that do their homework, comply with the law, financially plan for void periods and maintenance costs, and carefully vet their tenants rarely have any problems they can't handle.
    Let's settle this like gentlemen: armed with heavy sticks
    On a rotating plate, with spikes like Flash Gordon
    And you're Peter Duncan; I gave you fair warning
    • AlexMac
    • By AlexMac 20th Mar 17, 5:11 PM
    • 1,821 Posts
    • 1,585 Thanks
    AlexMac
    (Text removed by MSE Forum Team)

    I wouldn't be totally put off the idea of letting out a property just because of the possibility of abuse; I've been letting a cheap BTL for 20 years since becoming a landlord almost by accident and I've never had a bad tenant or bad debt. So much so that I bought another a few years on. I intially used an Agent to reference check and set up tenencies, but I've subsequently done that myself (Bank, employer, previous landlord... I don't bother with credit referencing agency checks but could do). If you choose good prospects and manage professionally you'll probably be as satisfied as I've been?

    But I am intruigued by your original Q...
    Hi there,
    Why do tenants have so many rights? I am thinking about becoming a landlord for the first time and one of the main issues that is concerning me is the control that tenants can have ...Can anyone give me their opinions?
    Originally posted by rentmekid
    ...as in my opinion, tenants have far too few rights; the major gap being insecurity of tenure. I can't be alone in having experienced particularly precarious housing in dozens of dodgy lodgings, institutions or B&Bs in the days before the 1965 Rent Act gave some protection. I recall how my mum felt when we were lucky enough to get the security of a Council flat. But even after that and subseqaunt legislation, things are far from perfect. It seems to me that it's particularly unfair that people can be evicted at a couple of months' notice after their initial AST term.

    And as some say- the "Rachmanism" hasn't been eliminated;
    https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/she-said/2014/mar/23/the-ghost-of-peter-rachman-still-stalks-the-halls-of-britains-rented-properties

    So if, having done your research you decide to buy a BTL - presumably on the basis of facts and figures rather than opinion - let's hope that you also then let emotion or values creep in. Maybe on the basis of "do as you would be done to"?
    Well, you did ask!
    Last edited by MSE ForumTeam5; 21-03-2017 at 11:29 AM. Reason: Inappropriate posting
    • WibblyGirly
    • By WibblyGirly 20th Mar 17, 7:31 PM
    • 170 Posts
    • 316 Thanks
    WibblyGirly
    Have you ever been a tenant yourself?
    I'm one, I really don't feel like I have 'so many rights'. The worst is the threat of being given an eviction letter with 2 months notice. I've had that in a few houses while on minimum wage and it's so hard to find the money in such a short time span due to landlords changing their minds 4 months into a tenancy.
    2017 Savings Goal | 175 / 3000
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 20th Mar 17, 7:47 PM
    • 15,334 Posts
    • 38,478 Thanks
    FBaby
    The landlords that do their homework, comply with the law, financially plan for void periods and maintenance costs, and carefully vet their tenants rarely have any problems they can't handle.
    Oh if only that was true!
    • benjus
    • By benjus 20th Mar 17, 8:01 PM
    • 4,791 Posts
    • 2,863 Thanks
    benjus
    Oh if only that was true!
    Originally posted by FBaby
    You think that landlords who do things right often have problems they can't handle?
    Let's settle this like gentlemen: armed with heavy sticks
    On a rotating plate, with spikes like Flash Gordon
    And you're Peter Duncan; I gave you fair warning
    • rjwr
    • By rjwr 20th Mar 17, 9:43 PM
    • 197 Posts
    • 123 Thanks
    rjwr
    My opinion is that you probably shouldn't become a landlord.
    Originally posted by Penitent
    i agree with this. You will be taking up a property that someone else can buy and live in. my advice, get a pension.
    • Annabee
    • By Annabee 20th Mar 17, 11:43 PM
    • 560 Posts
    • 411 Thanks
    Annabee
    Agreed, please do everyone a favour (including yourself) and don't become a landlord. Buy shares or something instead.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 21st Mar 17, 6:50 AM
    • 15,334 Posts
    • 38,478 Thanks
    FBaby
    You think that landlords who do things right often have problems they can't handle?
    Being able to handle a problem is one thing, being left stressed, exhausted and out of pocket doing so in another matter.
    • benjus
    • By benjus 21st Mar 17, 7:06 AM
    • 4,791 Posts
    • 2,863 Thanks
    benjus
    Being able to handle a problem is one thing, being left stressed, exhausted and out of pocket doing so in another matter.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Are you speaking from experience or just speculating?

    If a landlord is running their business competently I don't see why they should be any of those three things. Just like anyone running any kind of business competently should be able to handle a few setbacks without going bankrupt.

    However, a landlord that has assumed that their business will generate a completely reliable income with almost no spending required on it will probably end up being stressed, exhausted and out of pocket at some point. And there seem to be plenty of such landlords around.
    Last edited by benjus; 21-03-2017 at 7:12 AM.
    Let's settle this like gentlemen: armed with heavy sticks
    On a rotating plate, with spikes like Flash Gordon
    And you're Peter Duncan; I gave you fair warning
    • Sjc1973
    • By Sjc1973 21st Mar 17, 7:54 AM
    • 76 Posts
    • 185 Thanks
    Sjc1973
    You can however order your food and if it is not up to an edible standard refuse to pay either all or some of the bill.

    I have had good and bad landlords in the past, one hated spending any money on property maintenance, however I was paying for the right to live in a decent home. We once had a fault with the boiler which couldn't pump hot water upstairs leaving us unable to bath or shower and we had to either boil a kettle of water or wash downstairs and shower in relatives homes. He was so busy trying to get a cheap plumber because his usual cheap cowboy was on holidays that it went on for almost two weeks until I gave him notice that if he didn't get it fixed within 24 hours I would hire my own plumber and deduct the cost from the rent. He finally got someone to sort it the next day.

    Do you think it was unreasonable of me to threaten to withhold rent in that situation?
    Originally posted by Fosterdog
    it was unreasonable that he left you for two weeks without hot water, threatening him with getting your own plumber and deducting from rent got the boiler fixed - so I would say that was a result!

    I came home once when I was renting a property to find the landlord in the flat I was renting, giving viewings to some would be buyers - CHEEK! He didn't ask me if he could access the property or inform me he was thinking of selling! I stopped paying the rent and gave him notice that I was moving and he could use my deposit as rent for the remaining time. Suffice to say he was not very happy!!!! He got very abusive on the phone and demanded I meet with him, made sure my 6.4ft cousin was there - strong silent type who pulls off a good menacing look!!! Done the trick left me to live out my notice and got his letting agents to deal with me who were very nice!

    I think however, like in all walks of life you get good tenants/landlords and bad tenants/landlords!!!
    Last edited by Sjc1973; 21-03-2017 at 8:02 AM.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 21st Mar 17, 8:11 AM
    • 15,334 Posts
    • 38,478 Thanks
    FBaby
    Are you speaking from experience or just speculating?
    From experience indeed.

    . Just like anyone running any kind of business competently should be able to handle a few setbacks without going bankrupt.
    You're missing the point. It's not about going bankrupt, it's about the fact that you can follow all the rules expected as a landlord and still find yourself having to deal with tenants who don't give a monkey, stop paying rent, refuse to communicate with you, and you have to take them through court to evict them, all this taking many months of no income whilst you still have to pay the mortgage, and when you finally get your property back, you are left with thousand of unpaid rent and damage, but you know there is no point in taking them to court because you won't see a penny from them.

    However, a landlord that has assumed that their business will generate a completely reliable income with almost no spending required on it will probably end up being stressed, exhausted and out of pocket at some point.
    There is a gap between factoring some level of loss and finding yourself thousands out of pocket every few years.

    Last experience as a LL ended up with a loss of over 2,500. That was as a result of unpaid rent (tenant left property before end of fixed term but disappeared so couldn't assume that they had surrendered the property and therefore renting again immediately wasn't an option), and many damages to the property, in addition to having to pay their last gas/electricity bill (because they informed the utility company that they had left 6 weeks before they did and the company didn't want to know about the ast), and council tax for the same reason. The deposit was kept, but didn't come close to the full cost of it all.

    This loss, which followed another loss 18 months earlier as a result of damage too (although not to the same extent), is what made me decide that the whole stress and financial loss wasn't worth the investment. That despite being a LL that followed all the rules, and yes, tenants vetted by top agency, ticking all the boxes.

    I am not disputing that there are many bad landlords around, but to say that as long as you are a good and experience landlord you won't be facing difficulties is extremely naive.
    • Rain Shadow
    • By Rain Shadow 21st Mar 17, 8:46 AM
    • 1,716 Posts
    • 3,039 Thanks
    Rain Shadow
    Have you ever been a tenant yourself?
    .
    Originally posted by WibblyGirly
    Probably rent their space under the bridge. Interesting discussion though.
    You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you can't pick your friend's nose.
    • rentmekid
    • By rentmekid 21st Mar 17, 10:50 AM
    • 41 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    rentmekid
    Dear all,


    Thank you for your advice/opinions, whatever you want to call it. I've decided that I want to continue being a bailiff for the time being.
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