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  • FIRST POST
    • Jobe12
    • By Jobe12 20th Mar 17, 8:42 AM
    • 10Posts
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    Jobe12
    Court summons for residential parking - Over £1000!
    • #1
    • 20th Mar 17, 8:42 AM
    Court summons for residential parking - Over £1000! 20th Mar 17 at 8:42 AM
    Hi,

    I posted on this forum under a different account a while back regarding a similar issue and ended up winning a POPLA appeal. I'm hoping someone can help me again.

    The driver recently received a small claims court summons in the post. The claim is with regards to multiple tickets (well over 10) that were issued whilst the driver's vehicle was parked in a parking spot outside of the apartment he was renting. The parking spot was allocated to the driver's apartment (each apartment had one allocated spot and were numbered clearly.) UKPC are claiming that since no permit was displayed, the driver is liable for charges totaling at well over £1000.

    The permit was lost by the driver and a replacement permit has since been ordered and paid for. The driver no longer lives at the property in question but still has the tenancy agreement which proves the driver was a resident during the time the tickets were issued. The driver has sent an "Acknowledgement of service" to the court to give time to prepare the defense.

    More information:
    • The driver didn't make a POPLA appeal for any of the tickets
    • The driver has attempted to contact the estate agents and managing agents but this has been unhelpful
    • A friend of the driver recently won a POPLA appeal against UKPC for the same parking spot in question. This forum provided really helpful advice that allowed the driver's friend to prepare a POPLA appeal so strong that UKPC decided to give up!


    I've never been taken to court before and don't really know what to expect, any advice would be really appreciated.

    Are my odds of winning decent? It seems outrageous that I can be fined so much for parking in my own spot by a company that I have nothing to do with!

    Thank you for your help!
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 20th Mar 17, 8:56 AM
    • 15,958 Posts
    • 19,989 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 20th Mar 17, 8:56 AM
    • #2
    • 20th Mar 17, 8:56 AM
    its not a "summons"

    its an MCOL from Northampton (google it)

    if the PPC can prove keeper liability under POFA2012 then if you are the keeper they can try a court case , UNLESS they actually know the drivers details, in which case POFA does not apply

    nobody can tell you the odds on winning a court case, anyone that does is a fool

    you (or the driver) stand a good chance IF you follow the recent forum advice , start by reading post #2 of the NEWBIES sticky thread , then find and read about 10 to 20 recent court case defences for CEL , UKPC and PE etc (possibly EXCEL and VCS too)

    do not read anything older than about 12 months , so only 2016/2017 threads , especially ongoing ones or ones that have just concluded

    especially read the lamilad court case threads, so you get the gist of what is going on, plus it may not even get into a court before a judge, they may discontinue once they see a robust defence

    so do your research , draft your dummy defence (no names , no pack drill , no reference numbers , no identifiers , no VRM details) and post it on here for critique , like the one lower down by member BarryStanyer)

    make sure you read the resident parking ones , plus parking pranksters blogs on these lease issues and residents issues , the wording on the LEASE is a key factor in this court case

    if your name is on the MCOL, you must defend it, if the driver is named on the MCOL, then THEY must defend it , but can be assisted

    your post doesnt make it clear if you are the driver (dont tell us) , or if you are named on the paperwork , hence why I hedged my bets in my answer

    the point is that the person named on the MCOL defends themselves, possibly with help from others, but it is they who sign the papers, they who go to court etc (if it gets to a personal hearing)

    so if they are pusuing "the driver" and know who "the driver" is, then if that is not you then YOU are NOT being taken to court, the driver is
    Last edited by Redx; 20-03-2017 at 9:02 AM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 20th Mar 17, 9:20 AM
    • 6,138 Posts
    • 7,852 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #3
    • 20th Mar 17, 9:20 AM
    • #3
    • 20th Mar 17, 9:20 AM
    If you have not read the antics of UKPC on the Parking Prankster, please do so

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=ukpc
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • SmellyMog
    • By SmellyMog 20th Mar 17, 9:40 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    SmellyMog
    • #4
    • 20th Mar 17, 9:40 AM
    • #4
    • 20th Mar 17, 9:40 AM
    What, if anything, does the tenancy agreement have to say about resident parking?
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 20th Mar 17, 10:11 AM
    • 3,794 Posts
    • 5,356 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #5
    • 20th Mar 17, 10:11 AM
    • #5
    • 20th Mar 17, 10:11 AM
    Three tenancy agreement is absolutely critical here.
    Lynzer on pepipoo has created this which may be of use fyi you http://www.thebridesmother.co.uk/Media/residential-parking.pdf
    Again the tenancy/lease is critical, if you will not look at it, and say on here what if anything it says about parking spaces then the amount of help you can get will be severely limited.
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 20th Mar 17, 10:12 AM
    • 14,865 Posts
    • 23,330 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 20th Mar 17, 10:12 AM
    • #6
    • 20th Mar 17, 10:12 AM
    Here are a number of very recent and very relevant cases involving residential parking. The tide has started to turn considerably in favour of the owner/leaseholder/tenant and away from the PPCs who have jumped in with both feet into private residential estates, seduced by the whiff of easy money.

    Very important reading in your research work to rid yourself of the issue you now have.

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/link-parking-and-overstone-court.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/new-generation-parking-management-youve.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/test-cases-scheduled-for-overstone.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/ukpc-hit-for-352-for-discontinuing.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/link-parking-lose-in-wrexham-flat-owner_2.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/tenancy-agreement-not-overruled-by.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/pace-pulverised-in-croyden.html

    Read the final court case transcript on this list 'Jopson v Homeguard' (2016) - linked below.

    http://www.parking-prankster.com/case-law.html

    From regular PePiPoo poster 'Lynnzer':

    http://www.thebridesmother.co.uk/Media/residential-parking.pdf
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 20th Mar 17, 10:43 AM
    • 1,239 Posts
    • 2,113 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    • #7
    • 20th Mar 17, 10:43 AM
    • #7
    • 20th Mar 17, 10:43 AM
    There are many recent threads on here about how the tenant should pressure the managing agents, and also the landlord, because their rights to peaceful enjoyment and the specific right to park in that specific spot (assuming that's what the tenancy says) have been interfered with and the landlord/managing agents have allowed this to happen.




    1. The PPC is acting as agent of the managing agents who brought them in to control parking.
    2. The landlord contracted with the tenant to give exclusive occupation of the flat and the parking space in return for the payment of rent. You could argue that because he has done nothing to ensure that the PPC/managing agents did not interfere with the parking space then he is in breach of his obligations.


    No. 2 is slightly more tenuous than 1 and will depend on whether the tenant complained to the landlord at the time etc.


    You could try to get these cancelled by pressurising the managing agent (and landlord) - write them a letter before claim telling them that as the PPC was acting as their agent and was interfering with the tenants rights then they are liable for trespass to the tenant's space and the tenant's car and all losses incurred in relation to dealing with the PCNs, including not only direct losses but inconvenience and distress and all the time you will have to devote to dealing with the claim (at the allowed Litigant in Person rate of £19 per hour). And tell them that you intend on joining them to the claim as Second Defendants.


    Whether or not you actually apply to join them is a separate issue - you could do that and would be entitled to, but you have to make a formal application (form N244) asking the court and explaining why (all good so far) and the court fee for an application is £255 (not so good there).
    • Jobe12
    • By Jobe12 21st Mar 17, 3:17 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Jobe12
    • #8
    • 21st Mar 17, 3:17 PM
    • #8
    • 21st Mar 17, 3:17 PM
    Thanks for the advice everyone.


    The links above are extremely helpful and I will begin to construct my draft defense, I will post it here when it's ready for feedback.


    I have tried to get the parking tickets cancelled by talking to the estate's managing agent but they are extremely reluctant to help and are adamant that UKPC are in the right as the permit was not displayed. I have emailed the estate agents in the hope that they are more willing to help.


    I have looked at the tenancy agreement and the only information around parking spaces that it has is as follows:


    To park private vehicle(s) only at the Property/Premises.


    To park in the space allocated to the Property/Premises, if the Tenant is allocated a car parking space.


    To park in the garage or the driveway to the Property/Premises if applicable.


    To keep any garage, driveway, or parking space free of oil and to pay for the removal and cleaning of any spillage caused by a vehicle of the Tenant, his family, contractors or visitors.


    To remove all vehicles belonging to the Tenant, his family or visitors at the end of the Tenancy.
    Not to park any vehicle at the Property/Premises that is not in road worthy condition and fully taxed.


    Should I consider getting legal advice or is this something I can deal with on my own with the generous support of this forum?


    Thanks again.
    • Jobe12
    • By Jobe12 21st Mar 17, 3:19 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Jobe12
    • #9
    • 21st Mar 17, 3:19 PM
    • #9
    • 21st Mar 17, 3:19 PM
    Also, if I lose the MCOL will the effect on my credit rating be more severe compared to if I pay it now?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Mar 17, 3:21 PM
    • 50,584 Posts
    • 63,970 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Nope, there is no effect if you lose, nada, zilch, as long as you pay within 30 days. No CCJ.

    Why else do you think so many people are defending? Because they win and pay nothing but even if an odd one loses, they'd finally pay about £175, on average, and it would be all over. And still worth the fight, on matter of principle.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 21st Mar 17, 3:21 PM
    • 40,410 Posts
    • 80,714 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Thanks for the advice everyone.


    The links above are extremely helpful and I will begin to construct my draft defense, I will post it here when it's ready for feedback.


    I have tried to get the parking tickets cancelled by talking to the estate's managing agent but they are extremely reluctant to help and are adamant that UKPC are in the right as the permit was not displayed. I have emailed the estate agents in the hope that they are more willing to help.


    I have looked at the tenancy agreement and the only information around parking spaces that it has is as follows:


    To park private vehicle(s) only at the Property/Premises.


    To park in the space allocated to the Property/Premises, if the Tenant is allocated a car parking space.


    To park in the garage or the driveway to the Property/Premises if applicable.


    To keep any garage, driveway, or parking space free of oil and to pay for the removal and cleaning of any spillage caused by a vehicle of the Tenant, his family, contractors or visitors.


    To remove all vehicles belonging to the Tenant, his family or visitors at the end of the Tenancy.
    Not to park any vehicle at the Property/Premises that is not in road worthy condition and fully taxed.


    Should I consider getting legal advice or is this something I can deal with on my own with the generous support of this forum?


    Thanks again.
    Originally posted by Jobe12
    Since there is nothing in that tenancy agreement about permits, you were never required to display one, let alone pay for one.
    A third party, the parking scammers, cannot add on terms to an existing contract, the tenancy agreement. The MA should know this and should be able to kill this now. If not, you need to ask them when they will be free to attend court as they are jointly and severally liable for this fiasco.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Jobe12
    • By Jobe12 21st Mar 17, 3:26 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Jobe12
    You're absolutely right, on the principle alone it is worth fighting this! Thanks for letting me know about the 30 days to pay.


    I didn't think I was legally required to display the permit, I'll try and push the managing agents again.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 21st Mar 17, 3:52 PM
    • 7,155 Posts
    • 6,202 Thanks
    The Deep
    Have you brought this to the attention of your landlord? If so what has he/she said? It is his /her rights also that the PPC is attempting to compromise. If so minded he is in a position to make life difficult for the MA.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Jobe12
    • By Jobe12 21st Mar 17, 4:11 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Jobe12
    Unfortunately the property was fully managed by the estate agents, due to this I never had any contact with the landlord during the tenancy.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Mar 17, 9:11 PM
    • 50,584 Posts
    • 63,970 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I didn't think I was legally required to display the permit, I'll try and push the managing agents again.
    It's not about saying you were not 'legally' required (because it's not about any offence in law). It is about the fact that your contract did not incorporate any such relevant obligation and nor did it warn you about the terms of signs forming part of your tenancy agreement, nor did your tenancy agreement mention £100 parking charges. so when you signed on the dotted line, none of this trash was in your contract.

    Your contract prevails and the rights of way and/or easements that you already enjoyed as a tenant, gave you primacy of contract that can't be onerously varied, to your detriment. In short, neither the Managing Agent nor the PPC can disregard your rights or unilaterally vary your contract/add charges that didn't exist.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jobe12
    • By Jobe12 2nd Apr 17, 5:19 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Jobe12
    Thanks for the advice.


    I have gone over all of the above material and have looked in to numerous articles on the parking pranksters website relating to residential parking.


    I have created the first draft of my defence. I have formatted it as Times New Roman ft 12 with double spacing and have saved the document as a PDF.


    The defence focuses on the point of the tenancy agreement trumping any new signs that are meant to be "contracts"


    The POPLA appeal that was won for a friends ticket on the same spot was 16 pages long and covered many points, this is much smaller and only covers one main point. Is this as expected?


    Am I right in thinking that the next step is to email this to the county court rather than posting it or using the website? Do I need to attach transcripts of the cases I'm quoting or any additional documents?


    I have included it below, would anyone mind reviewing it and providing some advice please? Thank you so much!




    DEFENCE
    IN THE COUNTY COURT
    CLAIM No: XXX
    BETWEEN:
    UK PARKING CONTROL LTD (Claimant)
    -AND-
    XXX (Defendant)


    • It is admitted that the defendant, Mr XXX, residing XXX is the registered keeper of the vehicle.
    • It is denied that any 'parking charges or indemnity costs' (whatever they might be) are owed and any debt is denied in its entirety.
    • It is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant (if any debt exists, which is denied) would be the landowner.
    • I had parked in the communal areas allocated for parking and in the allocated spot for the property I was renting at the time. My lease imposes no parking conditions and a permit is displayed purely for the convenience of the claimant's operative. I deny that the Claimant has any authority over the property.
    • Extract from the tenancy agreement relating to parking: ďTo park private vehicle(s) only at the Property/Premises. To park in the space allocated to the Property/Premises, if the Tenant is allocated a car parking space. To park in the garage or the driveway to the Property/Premises if applicable. To keep any garage, driveway, or parking space free of oil and to pay for the removal and cleaning of any spillage caused by a vehicle of the Tenant, his family, contractors or visitors. To remove all vehicles belonging to the Tenant, his family or visitors at the end of the Tenancy. Not to park any vehicle at the Property/Premises that is not in road worthy condition and fully taxed.Ē I will include a copy of the tenancy agreement in any hearings.
    • The tenancy agreement prevails and gives me primacy of contract that canít be onerously varied to my detriment. The tenancy agreement has no mention of a parking charge and therefore cannot be unilaterally varied by UKPC to add charges that donít exist.
    • The Defendant believes that his personal details have been obtained unlawfully by the Claimant and asks that the Court does not to assist the Claimant to benefit from a wrongdoing. (Ex turpi causa non oritur action).
    • The presence of the Claimant on the land will have supposedly been to prevent parking by uninvited persons, for the benefit of the actual leaseholders. Instead, a predatory operation has been carried out on those very people whose interests the Claimant was purportedly there to uphold.
    • There can be no Ďlegitimate interestí in penalising residents for using parking spaces, under the excuse of a scheme where ostensibly and as far as the landowner is concerned, the parking firm is contracted for the benefit of the residents. It is unconscionable, contrary to the requirement of good faith and Ďout of all proportion to any legitimate interestí to fine residents or their visitors for using the parking spaces provided.
    • The question regarding terms in a lease was tested recently at Oxford County Court, JOPSON v HOME GUARD SERVICES, Appeal case number B9GF0A9E on 29/9/2016. The hearing was settled to the favour of JOPSON. I will include the transcript of that case at any hearing.
    • The question regarding residential parking was tested recently at Croydon County Court, MR N. V PACE RECOVERY, Claim no. C6GF14F0 on 16/9/2016. The hearing was settled to the favour of MR N. I will include the transcript of that case at any hearing.
    • To quote district judge Coonan in the case of MR N. V PACE RECOVERY Ė ďI have before me a tenancy agreement which gives Mr N. the right to park on the estate and it does not say ďon condition that you display a permit.Ē It does not say that, so he has that right. What PACE RECOVERY is seeking to do is, unilaterally outside the contract, restrict that right to only when a permit is displayed.Ē This is highly relevant to my case.
    • The question regarding residential parking was tested recently at Gloucester County Court, MS R. V UKPC, Claim no. C4HW0G3N on 8/3/2017. The hearing was settled to the favour of MS R.
    • In MS P. V LINK PARKING, Claim no. C7GF50J7. It was also found that the parking company could not override the tenant's right to park by requiring a permit to park.
    • The defendant denies the claim in its entirety voiding any liability to the claimant for all amounts claimed due to the aforementioned reasons. It is submitted that the conduct of the Claimant is wholly unreasonable and vexatious.


    I believe the facts contained in this Defence Statement are true.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 2nd Apr 17, 5:38 PM
    • 1,016 Posts
    • 2,020 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Am I right in thinking that the next step is to email this to the county court rather than posting it or using the website?
    Yes. Email the pdf. Don't submit via MCOL as it will become an ugly pile of words, you'll lose all your formatting. Court email is:
    ccbcaq@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk

    Copy yourself in to ensure its sent ok. Ring the court to confirm receipt.

    Do I need to attach transcripts of the cases I'm quoting or any additional documents?
    No, all evidence - transcripts, photos etc are submitted with your witness statement a couple of weeks before the hearing.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Apr 17, 9:26 PM
    • 50,584 Posts
    • 63,970 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The POPLA appeal that was won for a friends ticket on the same spot was 16 pages long and covered many points, this is much smaller and only covers one main point. Is this as expected?
    Yes. The only things I would add is a couple of safety net 'even if' defence points:

    - Even if the court is minded to overlook the persuasive Jopson v Home Guard Appeal decided by Charles Harris QC, a Senior Circuit Judge, along with the very similar County court decisions that tenancy rights cannot be disregarded (transcripts for which I will adduce in evidence) it is contended that the permits when issued, included nothing about £100 charge.

    - Even if the court is minded to believe there could be a contract formed from signage which could override the rights and easements already afforded to residents, I contend that these signs are in pale, sporadically placed high on walls and in very small print, with terms that were never drawn to the attention of residents. I was never obligated to read the signs because residents believed that they were directed at trespassers and I was completely unaware of the existence of any £100 'parking charge'.



    And add a point saying:

    - The facts of this case and status of the Defendant as a resident with pre-existing rights means that my case can be fully distinguished from the facts in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67, which involved a 'complex' set of facts and a commercial justification in ensuring turnover of spaces in a retail park, as well as very brief and clear signs with the parking charge in the largest lettering.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 02-04-2017 at 9:29 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jobe12
    • By Jobe12 7th Sep 17, 1:22 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Jobe12
    Hi all,

    I'm hoping I can get some more advice as the court date is approaching (~3 weeks away)

    Please let me know if I need to make a new thread instead.

    I have read posts from users who have won at court as reccomended in the "NEWBIES" thread.

    In the letter from the court it states "Each party shall deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents (including any experts' report) on which he intends to rely at the hearing no later than 14 days before the hearing"

    I assume I need to include a transcript of all of the above cases that I mentioned in my defence. The only other doucments that I can think to include would be the tenancy agreement and the images of the poor signage. Do I need to include anything else?

    I also recieved a letter from the prosecuters lawyers asking for a copy of my tenancy agreement as they noticed that I mentioned in the defence that it doesn't impose any parking restrictions. They would like to see this as it "will enable our client to confirm your assertions and make an informed decision in relation to this claim"

    The lawyers have an email address included in the letter, am I fine to send the required doucments to their email and the court's email or does it need to be posted?

    Thanks again for all of your help, I would be absolutely lost without it.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 7th Sep 17, 1:40 PM
    • 2,063 Posts
    • 2,474 Thanks
    waamo
    Please let me know if I need to make a new thread instead.
    If you do that you will annoy a lot of people who will want to see what advice you've had and what you've done.

    I assume I need to include a transcript of all of the above cases that I mentioned in my defence. The only other doucments that I can think to include would be the tenancy agreement and the images of the poor signage. Do I need to include anything else?
    As long as it is clear why they are included and not just random attachments then I can't think of anything else you need to add.

    The lawyers have an email address included in the letter, am I fine to send the required doucments to their email and the court's email or does it need to be posted?
    Email should be fine.
    This space for hire.
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