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  • FIRST POST
    • JustAnotherSaver
    • By JustAnotherSaver 19th Mar 17, 8:57 PM
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    JustAnotherSaver
    Decent helmet camera?
    • #1
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:57 PM
    Decent helmet camera? 19th Mar 17 at 8:57 PM
    My wife will be looking at getting a bike soon & using it to get to work during the summer as a means of fitness & also cost saving.

    We'll be looking at helmet cameras but don't really know where to start, what's considered good on the market - brands, models etc.

    £150 or so would be the budget.

    Obviously she'll not be wanting a TV on the top of her head screaming hey scallywags come & get this bit of kit off me. Something a bit discreet would be preferred but then there's the obvious requirement of being waterproof, recording in good quality (both sound & image), time & date stamp preferred - that kind of thing.

Page 1
    • Johnmcl7
    • By Johnmcl7 19th Mar 17, 11:43 PM
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    Johnmcl7
    • #2
    • 19th Mar 17, 11:43 PM
    • #2
    • 19th Mar 17, 11:43 PM
    I'd have a look at the GoPro4 Session (there's also a GoPro5 Session that's a lot more expensive):

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/GoPro-CHDHS-102-SE-HERO-Session-Camera/dp/B01BVACUZK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1489965755&sr=8-3&keywords=gopro+session+4

    It's very small, it's waterproof (doesn't need a fiddly dive case) and has decent video quality although the battery is fixed and can't be replaced to extend the recording time during a ride. I have a couple of these cameras to use on my helmet and chest cameras and find them very handy for their small size as I found the standard sized GoPros really too big for helmet use.

    Sjcam (amongst others) make cheap copies of the GoPro cameras and they have their own cheaper version of the Session:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Electronics-Photo/SJCAM-Multi-function-Waterproof-Recorder-Camcorder-wide-angle-Multiple/B014CJY90Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489966484&sr=8-1&keywords=sjcam+cube

    I've not used any of the Sjcam cameras myself although they seem to have a good reputation for the price:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tMhb4t-hPE

    John
    • JustAnotherSaver
    • By JustAnotherSaver 20th Mar 17, 6:33 AM
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    JustAnotherSaver
    • #3
    • 20th Mar 17, 6:33 AM
    • #3
    • 20th Mar 17, 6:33 AM
    Thanks for the reply.

    Just looking at the GoPro on google & google images. Would that be more mounted to the handlebars than the actual helmet itself? It looked like it. That isn't a problem, I was just wondering.

    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 20th Mar 17, 11:24 AM
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    Nasqueron
    • #4
    • 20th Mar 17, 11:24 AM
    • #4
    • 20th Mar 17, 11:24 AM
    Helmet mount shows where you are looking and has a greater range of view due to height. Handlebar (or to a lesser extent on the chest) has less visibility and generally just points forwards. Aside from the GoPro or the SJ Chinese knock-off the Garmin Virb is another possibility or even a decent dash cam - you can get the mobius for about £60 and a waterproof case for £15-20 and that has nearly 2 hours of battery life

    Not sure why cyclists want these cameras anyway, no use proving you were right if you are squashed, ride positively (1m from the kerb in primary - "own the road" or on bike lanes), have good high vis clothing and anticipate what idiots will do when driving. I have commuted 9m each way on 60mph bendy country lanes with no street lights in the dead of winter as well as current route of 7m through busy urban areas and I have never felt any need to have a camera and fail to see any real use.
    • Johnmcl7
    • By Johnmcl7 20th Mar 17, 11:31 AM
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    Johnmcl7
    • #5
    • 20th Mar 17, 11:31 AM
    • #5
    • 20th Mar 17, 11:31 AM
    Thanks for the reply.

    Just looking at the GoPro on google & google images. Would that be more mounted to the handlebars than the actual helmet itself? It looked like it. That isn't a problem, I was just wondering.
    Originally posted by JustAnotherSaver
    No, the Session can be helmet mounted - if it's a normal ribbed helmet, there's a strap that goes round the ribs to provide a mount for the camera. There's also an adhesive mount if it's a solid helmet.

    I like the Session as a helmet camera as it's smaller and lighter than other GoPro cameras so it's less noticeable on your head.

    I can't find any good images of the Session on a helmet, something like this gives you a rough idea:

    https://media.dcrainmaker.com/images/2015/07/image6.png

    John
    • Johnmcl7
    • By Johnmcl7 20th Mar 17, 12:26 PM
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    Johnmcl7
    • #6
    • 20th Mar 17, 12:26 PM
    • #6
    • 20th Mar 17, 12:26 PM
    Not sure why cyclists want these cameras anyway, no use proving you were right if you are squashed, ride positively (1m from the kerb in primary - "own the road" or on bike lanes), have good high vis clothing and anticipate what idiots will do when driving. I have commuted 9m each way on 60mph bendy country lanes with no street lights in the dead of winter as well as current route of 7m through busy urban areas and I have never felt any need to have a camera and fail to see any real use.
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    Most of the time I don't feel the need for a camera as I'm not one of those people that wants to report absolutely everything I see but there have been several really near misses due to bad or angry driving that I wish I'd had a camera to report. Three cases were people driving the wrong way down a one way road and assumed my frantic gesturing was me just waving to them and they waved back, forcing me off the road and the other three were where drivers had attempted to force me off the road or intimidated me with their vehicles.

    You may be wondering what I'd done to get that behaviour, in the first case the driver had moved from a stop just ahead of me but they were only doing around 15mph and I could see they were distracted trying to do something on their phone so I just overtook them which was the red rag to a bull and he immediately accelerated up ahead of me then slowed down hard to force me to brake hard several times. The second time I was going along a narrow countryside on a blind corner, a driver was behind but couldn't quite get past and stay within the white line so he took to shouting at me for not moving off the road for him and then came in really close as he overtook, then pulled into a layby and got out of the car shouting at me to stop. The third occasion I was going through town at a decent speed (had just left a car park so didn't even had time to do anything) when a driver came up close beside me, shouted at me to get off the f***ing road and tried to force me off the corner before seemingly giving up and driving off.

    In particular for the last three cases I wish I'd had the camera to be able to report the drivers, I realise I could do it without but it's a lot more effective when there's video for the police and even if they did nothing I'd feel better I'd at least tried as I suspect I wasn't the only cyclist those drivers had harassed.

    The couple of issues that put me off are that unfortunately there's been prominent idiots with action cameras who have got into verbal slinging matches with drivers and upload every moment they feel they've been wronged which gives the cameras a negative stigma. Plus there's the issue of batterylife, none of my cameras would last a long ride and for frequent short rides there would need to be a lot of recharging.

    John
    • esuhl
    • By esuhl 20th Mar 17, 2:51 PM
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    esuhl
    • #7
    • 20th Mar 17, 2:51 PM
    • #7
    • 20th Mar 17, 2:51 PM
    Not sure why cyclists want these cameras anyway, no use proving you were right if you are squashed...
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    A camera would have been a lot of help for me when I was "squashed" by a drunk driver who left the scene without giving me her details.

    If I'd had the registration of her vehicle, I would have sued her for about £800 in damages.

    I can't understand why some people are so against the idea of safety cameras.
    • jblessing
    • By jblessing 20th Mar 17, 4:12 PM
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    jblessing
    • #8
    • 20th Mar 17, 4:12 PM
    • #8
    • 20th Mar 17, 4:12 PM
    Not sure about the gopro session, but I have an earlier gopro and I would be loathe to attach it to me or my helmet. The mounts and the camera itself are very strongly built. It is thought that Michael Schumacher's injuries were worse because he had a gopro on his helmet.

    I have used a mobius action camera. The quality is nearly as good as a gopro but it feels less dangerous to me.
    • Johnmcl7
    • By Johnmcl7 20th Mar 17, 6:03 PM
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    Johnmcl7
    • #9
    • 20th Mar 17, 6:03 PM
    • #9
    • 20th Mar 17, 6:03 PM
    Not sure about the gopro session, but I have an earlier gopro and I would be loathe to attach it to me or my helmet. The mounts and the camera itself are very strongly built. It is thought that Michael Schumacher's injuries were worse because he had a gopro on his helmet.
    Originally posted by jblessing
    This isn't true, a journalist claimed he had spoken to a Schumacher relative and that the GoPro camera was suspected as the cause but then he denied he had spoken to the family member and admitted that the claim was his opinion, not actually based on any medical evidence.

    Since then there's been a lot of testing by helmet companies and others who have found a gopro camera doesn't worsen the accident unless the camera was suspended on the front of the helmet to show a person's reaction or possibly on a cliff fall if the camera caused the head to rotate round:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/safety/resources/safetynews/whatsnew/helmet-cams

    Also if helmet cameras were causing more serious head injuries there would have been a huge increase in these head injuries given the huge increase in the use of that type of camera over the last few years but there's been nothing measurable that can show it happening.

    John
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 21st Mar 17, 9:56 AM
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    Nasqueron
    A camera would have been a lot of help for me when I was "squashed" by a drunk driver who left the scene without giving me her details.

    If I'd had the registration of her vehicle, I would have sued her for about £800 in damages.

    I can't understand why some people are so against the idea of safety cameras.
    Originally posted by esuhl
    How would a camera have helped to get a reg? If she stopped then you could have her reg on paper or a phone, if she didn't you're still relying on the camera actually focusing on her plate (and how do you hope the camera would prove her drunk driving)?

    I have been hit by cars twice and neither would have been aided by a camera, one perhaps I could have avoided if I had guessed the car would turn across the road into me, the other when a car pulled out of a roundabout exit into me as I was passing. I had the driver details in both circumstances.

    I have nothing against cameras but they're extremely rarely needed for a few mile commute and much more commonly used by angry people who want to police the road, who capture bad driving that doesn't affect them, shout the license plate out and then cycle and have an argument with the driver then post it on youtube. Focus on safe defensive cycling not relying on the camera to create some sort of bubble - all it will capture is the way you point it so anything else is missed
    • brat
    • By brat 21st Mar 17, 10:33 AM
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    brat
    I use a chest mounted GoPro Hero4 Session. I use it all the time, but very occasionally use it to make companies aware of their responsibilities towards cyclists. I bought it after an accident which caused me no ends of problems getting compensation for my broken bike. Like Esuhl, had I the camera at that time, liability would have been clear as day.

    I don't like helmet mounted cameras because I think they look silly on top of the helmet, and I don't like the extra weight on the helmet. The chest mount is quite discreet, and doesn't give drivers the impression that you're a cycling vigilante.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcxLS8NfyJY
    Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.
    • JustAnotherSaver
    • By JustAnotherSaver 21st Mar 17, 10:59 AM
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    JustAnotherSaver
    How would a camera have helped to get a reg? If she stopped then you could have her reg on paper or a phone, if she didn't you're still relying on the camera actually focusing on her plate (and how do you hope the camera would prove her drunk driving)?

    I have been hit by cars twice and neither would have been aided by a camera, one perhaps I could have avoided if I had guessed the car would turn across the road into me, the other when a car pulled out of a roundabout exit into me as I was passing. I had the driver details in both circumstances.

    I have nothing against cameras but they're extremely rarely needed for a few mile commute and much more commonly used by angry people who want to police the road, who capture bad driving that doesn't affect them, shout the license plate out and then cycle and have an argument with the driver then post it on youtube. Focus on safe defensive cycling not relying on the camera to create some sort of bubble - all it will capture is the way you point it so anything else is missed
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    Just wondering how the mileage makes a difference here?

    If you only do a few miles you'll not need a cam but if you do a few miles more then you may/will??

    • Nebulous2
    • By Nebulous2 21st Mar 17, 1:35 PM
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    Nebulous2
    I had an accident whilst commuting. Driver denied responsibility and it turned into a drawn out fight. It worked out okay because a driver behind me kindly stopped, waited and insisted on giving his details to the police. I had some pain for months and two broken fingers but lost a lot of confidence and bought a garmin virb. I've used it on my helmet to commute for about 18 months now.

    I rarely watch the footage and its even rarer to do anything with it. I've posted 3 clips to youtube in that time and deleted one of them after getting an apologetic email from the company in question. I had emailed the company to tell them the clip was there.

    I emailed the police about one incident, where I had a terrible overtake from a van which cut in front of me and the van hadn't paid their VED. Their response was to say their systems can't view youtube, could I come in to make a statement. By this time I had calmed down and decided not to bother.

    Where it does help if at all is modifying people's behaviour. People often change their minds about an overtake when they see the camera for instance. I recently had a woman in the passenger seat of a sports car who intended to throw a bottle top at me and stopped when she saw the camera. 10 metres down the road she threw it at a parked car instead.

    I get a roughly equal response from a small number of van drivers, where they either peep at me or give me the thumbs up. I'm not clear why, but I take it as disapproval/approval.

    Oh and finally, if your adrenaline is up, sometimes because of an earlier incident, it can be easy to overreact. What the camera also does is let me see that some overtakes or incidents weren't as bad as I thought they were at the time.
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 21st Mar 17, 2:52 PM
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    Nasqueron
    Just wondering how the mileage makes a difference here?

    If you only do a few miles you'll not need a cam but if you do a few miles more then you may/will??
    Originally posted by JustAnotherSaver
    A short ride for a new, nervous, casual rider looking to get fit isn't likely to involve them taking possible risks (like going through on amber) or be cycling at speed (giving more stopping time), being clipped in and potentially not even on the road (the original post doesn't mention the route), I'd imagine not riding into a busy city on the roads during rush hour either. The post also talks about only doing it in summer (I'm guessing they would also not ride in heavy rain) so good visibility also reduces the risk.



    On a longer ride I do there is a dual carriageway - 40mph - where I can go down at 30+, I nearly got taken out by a car coming out of a slip road - that would have been very nasty impact going down tarmac while clipped in - can't imagine a casual rider doing that.
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 21st Mar 17, 2:57 PM
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    Nasqueron
    I had an accident whilst commuting. Driver denied responsibility and it turned into a drawn out fight. It worked out okay because a driver behind me kindly stopped, waited and insisted on giving his details to the police. I had some pain for months and two broken fingers but lost a lot of confidence and bought a garmin virb. I've used it on my helmet to commute for about 18 months now.

    I rarely watch the footage and its even rarer to do anything with it. I've posted 3 clips to youtube in that time and deleted one of them after getting an apologetic email from the company in question. I had emailed the company to tell them the clip was there.

    I emailed the police about one incident, where I had a terrible overtake from a van which cut in front of me and the van hadn't paid their VED. Their response was to say their systems can't view youtube, could I come in to make a statement. By this time I had calmed down and decided not to bother.

    Where it does help if at all is modifying people's behaviour. People often change their minds about an overtake when they see the camera for instance. I recently had a woman in the passenger seat of a sports car who intended to throw a bottle top at me and stopped when she saw the camera. 10 metres down the road she threw it at a parked car instead.

    I get a roughly equal response from a small number of van drivers, where they either peep at me or give me the thumbs up. I'm not clear why, but I take it as disapproval/approval.

    Oh and finally, if your adrenaline is up, sometimes because of an earlier incident, it can be easy to overreact. What the camera also does is let me see that some overtakes or incidents weren't as bad as I thought they were at the time.
    Originally posted by Nebulous2
    Google Dave Sherry to see the sort of problem with helmet cams

    There are all sorts of things modifying cyclists behaviour. A male researcher found cars would give him more space passing if he wore a long blonde pony tail that made him look female from behind. Cars go closer to bikes where the rider has a helmet. Unless you stopped and asked that passenger about her behaviour that's nothing more than correlation
    • amygill1990
    • By amygill1990 21st Mar 17, 2:59 PM
    • 21 Posts
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    amygill1990
    I had a Sony action camera, which I find a lot easier to use than go pro's, and a lot cheaper.

    https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/actioncam/hdr-as20

    I'd thoroughly recommend it, I used to mount it on the top of my helmet whilst skiing and have some great shots and videos!
    • esuhl
    • By esuhl 21st Mar 17, 7:13 PM
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    esuhl
    How would a camera have helped to get a reg?
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    Cameras can take photographic images. I could have used the technology to capture an image of the registration plate.

    If she stopped then you could have her reg on paper or a phone...
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    I was too badly injured to write anything. And I was in extreme shock. I also trusted the driver when she gave me what she claimed was her business card.

    I have been hit by cars twice and neither would have been aided by a camera...
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    Well, if they didn't help you in those two situations, then clearly they won't help anyone ever. They should be illegal, since they're obviously not fit for purpose.

    I have nothing against cameras...
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    Come on -- pull the other one!

    ... but they're extremely rarely needed for a few mile commute and much more commonly used by angry people who want to police the road, who capture bad driving that doesn't affect them, shout the license plate out and then cycle and have an argument with the driver then post it on youtube.
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    How did you conduct this survey? Where did you get your figures from?
    • Nebulous2
    • By Nebulous2 22nd Mar 17, 1:13 PM
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    Nebulous2
    Google Dave Sherry to see the sort of problem with helmet cams

    There are all sorts of things modifying cyclists behaviour. A male researcher found cars would give him more space passing if he wore a long blonde pony tail that made him look female from behind. Cars go closer to bikes where the rider has a helmet. Unless you stopped and asked that passenger about her behaviour that's nothing more than correlation
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    I'm not sure why you are trying to pick holes and throw in additional irrelevant facts. I'm happy with my helmetcam and have explained why - which is all I need. Equally you can be happy without one.

    I'm aware that helmets are controversial and may increase risks - but I always wear one, largely to please my family. Again my choice, my head, my life.

    The car passed me on a downhill stretch in town, where I was close to 30mph, revving in a low gear. The woman pulled her arm back - we looked at each other and she hesitated. Then a short distance down the road she threw a plastic screw on bottle top at a parked car.

    I think she hesitated because she saw the camera and didn't want to get caught. Equally it may be that it was our eye contact which made her hesitate. Eye contact is one of the most powerful weapons a cyclist has. It forces people to recognise you are a human being and not just an object in their way - that they can project all the crap in their life onto.
    • Freebyman
    • By Freebyman 26th Mar 17, 8:36 AM
    • 554 Posts
    • 114 Thanks
    Freebyman
    I too am looking for one, the other day I got knocked off and it cost me a new wheel. Thankfully the other driver owned up and paid for it but it got me thinking what if he didnt? I really dont like the idea of a go pro on the helmet due to the size so was thinking of one of those telescope ones on the side of the helmet with continuous loop recording facility. Does anyone know of one anywhere which fits the bill?
    Old Faithful we roam the range together,
    Old Faithful in any kind of weather,
    When the round up days are over,
    And the Boulevard’s white with clover,
    For you old faithful pal of mine.
    • Johnmcl7
    • By Johnmcl7 26th Mar 17, 3:18 PM
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    Johnmcl7
    I too am looking for one, the other day I got knocked off and it cost me a new wheel. Thankfully the other driver owned up and paid for it but it got me thinking what if he didnt? I really dont like the idea of a go pro on the helmet due to the size so was thinking of one of those telescope ones on the side of the helmet with continuous loop recording facility. Does anyone know of one anywhere which fits the bill?
    Originally posted by Freebyman
    Firstly, hope you're ok and just the bike that was damaged?

    It sounds like you're thinking of a drift camera:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drift-Innovation-Stealth-Resistant-Accessories/dp/B00MCWWL0G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1490537683&sr=8-3&keywords=drift+ghost

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Camera-Photo/Drift-Innovation-Waterproof-Sports-Action/B00GJRCPRO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490537683&sr=8-1&keywords=drift+ghost

    Sony's action cameras are also more of a cylindrical design:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-HDR-AS50-Waterproof-Housing-SteadyShot/dp/B01A8QRVBQ/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1490537762&sr=8-4&keywords=sony+action+cam

    As I mentioned earlier, the GoPro session is a lot smaller than a normal GoPro and you can use adhesive mounts to put it to the side:

    http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/oncirrus/3/image/product/zoom/6NZgT7bdhN/CI5msisRyU/gophero-session-lpf-0-low-profile-helmet-swivel-mount-piu2-19557727.jpg
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