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  • FIRST POST
    • BlueMoonx
    • By BlueMoonx 19th Mar 17, 4:55 PM
    • 3Posts
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    BlueMoonx
    A couple of PIP questions
    • #1
    • 19th Mar 17, 4:55 PM
    A couple of PIP questions 19th Mar 17 at 4:55 PM
    Hi

    I have the PIP form which I'm helping to fill out for an Autistic relative.

    I have two questions:

    1) I have found the corresponding PDF online where it explains the points. On there it has information about preparing food. The claimant is able to cook a basic meal but they purposely overcook meats (they're scared they'll get food poisoning otherwise). Even when told something is properly cooked by someone else they'll continue to cook it until it is very overdone. We're talking cooking about maybe twice as long as most people would cook it and if frying/grilling until the meat is pretty much charred.

    We'll obviously include it anyway, but is the above likely to be considered as not cooking to an acceptable standard? I'm not sure. It does say in the notes for 4 points that "This descriptor also applies to claimants who are unable to determine whether food is safe to eat – for example, that meat is properly cooked – due to sensory or cognitive impairment." I'm not sure if that is more aimed at people who may undercook food, though? I guess there may be health risks to overcooking food but they don't seem as obvious as those associated with undercooking food!

    It does mention about overcooking on the Citizens Advice page (sorry, it won't allow me to post the link) but I'm not sure.

    Any thoughts?

    2) The claimant isn't great with communication, as you'd expect with someone with Autism. Has anyone experienced a face-to-face assessment for someone with Autism? I'd imagine they'll allow the person accompanying the claimant to have substantial input given the claimants limitations and somewhat unrealistic perception of some things?

    Thanks!
Page 1
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 19th Mar 17, 5:19 PM
    • 1,075 Posts
    • 2,921 Thanks
    Penitent
    • #2
    • 19th Mar 17, 5:19 PM
    • #2
    • 19th Mar 17, 5:19 PM
    1) I don't think that would count. As you say, I think it's more about people, for example, not cooking chicken properly and giving themselves salmonella. Or, in the case of overcooking, leaving food in the oven until it's so burnt it can't be eaten.

    2) I have no direct experience of an autism-based assessment, but from reading other's posts on here I'd say it depends on the assessor. A few people have said that when they tried to speak for the person being assessed, the assessor demanded the claimant answer.
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 19th Mar 17, 5:26 PM
    • 10,449 Posts
    • 12,369 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    • #3
    • 19th Mar 17, 5:26 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Mar 17, 5:26 PM
    I have found the corresponding PDF online where it explains the points. On there it has information about preparing food. The claimant is able to cook a basic meal but they purposely overcook meats (they're scared they'll get food poisoning otherwise). Even when told something is properly cooked by someone else they'll continue to cook it until it is very overdone. We're talking cooking about maybe twice as long as most people would cook it and if frying/grilling until the meat is pretty much charred.

    I would certainly write this in the 'other information section' but would add that due to their autism they are obsessive about cooking food properly for fear of food poisoning and this impacts on their being able to complete the task reliably.

    No guarantee, of course, that this would result in extra points but relating it to their condition gives you the best chance.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 19th Mar 17, 6:09 PM
    • 1,060 Posts
    • 1,138 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    • #4
    • 19th Mar 17, 6:09 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Mar 17, 6:09 PM
    I'm in agreement with pmlindyloo.
    I think this suggests your relative can't cook to an acceptable standard due to his condition.

    The other thing that could be added is that even with the use of an aid such as a timer, your relative is incapable of cooking to an acceptable standard by himself.

    How does he cope with ready meals that only need microwaving?

    If someone cooks for him, will he then eat properly cooked meat?
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 19th Mar 17, 6:29 PM
    • 1,075 Posts
    • 2,921 Thanks
    Penitent
    • #5
    • 19th Mar 17, 6:29 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Mar 17, 6:29 PM
    I'm coming to the conclusion that being raised on very overcooked food ("It's not burnt, it's just...well done.") has given me a skewed view of what constitutes an acceptable standard.
    • BlueMoonx
    • By BlueMoonx 19th Mar 17, 6:36 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    BlueMoonx
    • #6
    • 19th Mar 17, 6:36 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Mar 17, 6:36 PM
    Thanks guys

    I'm in agreement with pmlindyloo.
    I think this suggests your relative can't cook to an acceptable standard due to his condition.

    The other thing that could be added is that even with the use of an aid such as a timer, your relative is incapable of cooking to an acceptable standard by himself.

    How does he cope with ready meals that only need microwaving?

    If someone cooks for him, will he then eat properly cooked meat?
    Originally posted by Alice Holt
    He won't eat microwaved meals that include meats - same issue.

    He'll eat meats that aren't overdone cooked by his Mum, but that's it. He rarely eats outside the home but will always order foods that he thinks are safe which usually means they don't contain meat.

    How do people recommend wording the answers? I've just tried to explain the issues, but should I be using phrases like "acceptable standard"? I fear it may sound a bit scripted if I did.

    Thanks again
    Last edited by BlueMoonx; 19-03-2017 at 6:47 PM.
    • w06
    • By w06 19th Mar 17, 6:40 PM
    • 216 Posts
    • 303 Thanks
    w06
    • #7
    • 19th Mar 17, 6:40 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Mar 17, 6:40 PM
    Just describe it as you did above

    No idea whether it will count as not an acceptable standard - it could be argued that if that's how he likes it it's fine. (cf extra strong coffee, blue steak etc)
    • BlueMoonx
    • By BlueMoonx 19th Mar 17, 6:45 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    BlueMoonx
    • #8
    • 19th Mar 17, 6:45 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Mar 17, 6:45 PM
    Just describe it as you did above

    No idea whether it will count as not an acceptable standard - it could be argued that if that's how he likes it it's fine. (cf extra strong coffee, blue steak etc)
    Originally posted by w06
    Thanks.

    Yes, I see your point but I really wouldn't class it in the same way. It's not a taste preference, he has irrational fears about being poisoned
    • w06
    • By w06 19th Mar 17, 8:29 PM
    • 216 Posts
    • 303 Thanks
    w06
    • #9
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:29 PM
    • #9
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:29 PM
    probably import to make sure that's clear
    • Tommo1980
    • By Tommo1980 20th Mar 17, 8:14 AM
    • 288 Posts
    • 371 Thanks
    Tommo1980
    Yes definitely include the information with the descriptor. I got 4 points for preparing food (needs supervision) because of similar issues. I also got 4 points for the eating descriptor (needs prompting).

    Well worth being thorough as getting these points meant I was awarded enhanced daily living. If you have any reports from professionals that mention this, include them with the claim.

    Tom
    • Tommo1980
    • By Tommo1980 20th Mar 17, 2:39 PM
    • 288 Posts
    • 371 Thanks
    Tommo1980
    Well you got 0 points, so that pretty much says it all.

    Anything helpful to add or are you just trolling for attention? Most undignified!
    Last edited by Tommo1980; 20-03-2017 at 2:52 PM.
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 20th Mar 17, 2:47 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    Well you got 0 points, so that pretty much says it all.

    Anything helpful to add or are you just trolling for attention? Most undignified!
    Originally posted by Tommo1980
    No not at all.
    Just find it amusing that people scrape the barrel looking for the odd point or two.

    But when I start looking at what points I could get I get criticised by all and sundry.I have worked out that based on evidence that my points should have been enough to warrant enhanced for both elements - not 0 points - that is if the claim form had been completed properly.

    Double standards?
    • Tommo1980
    • By Tommo1980 20th Mar 17, 2:51 PM
    • 288 Posts
    • 371 Thanks
    Tommo1980
    I'm not getting into a debate on this.
    • micky2phones
    • By micky2phones 21st Mar 17, 1:44 AM
    • 290 Posts
    • 233 Thanks
    micky2phones
    Hi

    I have the PIP form which I'm helping to fill out for an Autistic relative.

    I have two questions:

    1) I have found the corresponding PDF online where it explains the points. On there it has information about preparing food. The claimant is able to cook a basic meal but they purposely overcook meats (they're scared they'll get food poisoning otherwise). Even when told something is properly cooked by someone else they'll continue to cook it until it is very overdone. We're talking cooking about maybe twice as long as most people would cook it and if frying/grilling until the meat is pretty much charred.

    We'll obviously include it anyway, but is the above likely to be considered as not cooking to an acceptable standard? I'm not sure. It does say in the notes for 4 points that "This descriptor also applies to claimants who are unable to determine whether food is safe to eat – for example, that meat is properly cooked – due to sensory or cognitive impairment." I'm not sure if that is more aimed at people who may undercook food, though? I guess there may be health risks to overcooking food but they don't seem as obvious as those associated with undercooking food!

    It does mention about overcooking on the Citizens Advice page (sorry, it won't allow me to post the link) but I'm not sure.

    Any thoughts?

    2) The claimant isn't great with communication, as you'd expect with someone with Autism. Has anyone experienced a face-to-face assessment for someone with Autism? I'd imagine they'll allow the person accompanying the claimant to have substantial input given the claimants limitations and somewhat unrealistic perception of some things?

    Thanks!
    Originally posted by BlueMoonx
    Hi, IMO i think that if overcooking things would that not have the risk of causing a fire, smoke alarm going off, panic , stress etc ? Worst than having a case of food poisoning ? Just a thought
    • The Old Bag
    • By The Old Bag 22nd Mar 17, 3:51 AM
    • 4,545 Posts
    • 22,194 Thanks
    The Old Bag
    Was there not some 'scientific' pronouncement (Food Standards Agency) a few weeks back about the dangers of eating 'burnt' food.
    Carcenogenic or some such.......
    So, presumably overcooked food can (long term) be just as dangerous as under cooked food.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cancer-roast-potatoes-burnt-toast-starchy-foods-could-cause-cancer-acrylamide-food-standards-agency-a7540916.html
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