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    • Malibusmash
    • By Malibusmash 19th Mar 17, 7:46 AM
    • 74Posts
    • 11Thanks
    Malibusmash
    Setting up a Trust for Property
    • #1
    • 19th Mar 17, 7:46 AM
    Setting up a Trust for Property 19th Mar 17 at 7:46 AM
    My elderly Father recently fell ill and needed to go into a care home, however he passed away just before this occurred. During the process, we learned that because he had 30,000 in savings (over the 23,250 care cap), he would have to pay the full cost for the care home fees.

    We also learned that because he co-owned his home (worth approximately 200k with no mortgage) with my elderly (and also sick) Mother - who lives there - the home itself wasn't in jeopardy.

    We now need to transfer Dad's half of the house into my name, however have been told that we would be better putting this half 'in trust' so that if and when my Mother suffers the same fate, the State won't be able to take the house from her to pay for her care.

    I have also heard however that setting up a Trust is quite expensive and wonder if it might be better to just transfer the whole property into my name (my Mother is happy for this to happen) to avoid any complicated process and expensive Solicitor fees and she can just continue to live there.

    There is no other family to speak of - only myself and my Mother. Also I have never lived in the property and do not myself currently own a property.

    Could you advise on the best way to move forward please?
Page 1
    • Sea Shell
    • By Sea Shell 19th Mar 17, 7:52 AM
    • 306 Posts
    • 235 Thanks
    Sea Shell
    • #2
    • 19th Mar 17, 7:52 AM
    • #2
    • 19th Mar 17, 7:52 AM
    How is/was the home owned? Joint Tenants or Tenants in Common.
    • Malibusmash
    • By Malibusmash 19th Mar 17, 8:00 AM
    • 74 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Malibusmash
    • #3
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:00 AM
    • #3
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:00 AM
    How is/was the home owned? Joint Tenants or Tenants in Common.
    Originally posted by Sea Shell
    Definitely Joint Tenants.
    • HappyHarry
    • By HappyHarry 19th Mar 17, 8:04 AM
    • 329 Posts
    • 387 Thanks
    HappyHarry
    • #4
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:04 AM
    • #4
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:04 AM
    If your mother gives away assets to avoid care fees, that is called deliberate deprivation, and the local authority can come after the assets.

    From a moral standpoint, why do you think that (hardworking) UK taxpayers should pay for your mother's care if needed, rather than your mother who could afford to pay herself?
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser. Any comments I make here are intended for information / discussion only. Nothing I post here should be construed as advice. If you are looking for individual financial advice, please contact a local Independent Financial Adviser.
    • Malibusmash
    • By Malibusmash 19th Mar 17, 8:11 AM
    • 74 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Malibusmash
    • #5
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:11 AM
    • #5
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:11 AM
    If your mother gives away assets to avoid care fees, that is called deliberate deprivation, and the local authority can come after the assets.

    From a moral standpoint, why do you think that (hardworking) UK taxpayers should pay for your mother's care if needed, rather than your mother who could afford to pay herself?
    Originally posted by HappyHarry
    You do, of course, raise a valid point, although 30,000 is not going to go far SHOULD she need a care home in the future and we indeed hope she won't. Since her half of the property is going to pass to me anyway in her Will (as there are no other family members), I am interested to learn more about the side of setting up a trust.
    • LindaMary
    • By LindaMary 19th Mar 17, 8:12 AM
    • 176 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    LindaMary
    • #6
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:12 AM
    • #6
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:12 AM
    If your dad had left his half of the home to you it would be protected. It's too late now to try to stop the house being used for care fees if your mum needs nursing.
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 19th Mar 17, 8:15 AM
    • 568 Posts
    • 781 Thanks
    Flugelhorn
    • #7
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:15 AM
    • #7
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:15 AM
    If your dad had left his half of the home to you it would be protected. It's too late now to try to stop the house being used for care fees if your mum needs nursing.
    Originally posted by LindaMary
    Quite right - my parents wouldn't hear of it when I suggested when father was still alive, now mother upset that they didn't become tenants in common as she has discovered that other relatives have. Our next move will be post retirement - planning to sort it then
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 19th Mar 17, 8:51 AM
    • 6,295 Posts
    • 6,656 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #8
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:51 AM
    • #8
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:51 AM
    My elderly Father recently fell ill and needed to go into a care home, however he passed away just before this occurred. During the process, we learned that because he had 30,000 in savings (over the 23,250 care cap), he would have to pay the full cost for the care home fees.

    We also learned that because he co-owned his home (worth approximately 200k with no mortgage) with my elderly (and also sick) Mother - who lives there - the home itself wasn't in jeopardy.

    We now need to transfer Dad's half of the house into my name, however have been told that we would be better putting this half 'in trust' so that if and when my Mother suffers the same fate, the State won't be able to take the house from her to pay for her care.

    I have also heard however that setting up a Trust is quite expensive and wonder if it might be better to just transfer the whole property into my name (my Mother is happy for this to happen) to avoid any complicated process and expensive Solicitor fees and she can just continue to live there. it's too late for that, that would be transparent deprivation of assets

    There is no other family to speak of - only myself and my Mother. Also I have never lived in the property and do not myself currently own a property.

    Could you advise on the best way to move forward please?
    Originally posted by Malibusmash
    Incorrect, as has been pointed out, had your father left his half to you, then his half would be protected. Her half would not be, and has also been pointed out, it's too late now as it's transparently deprivation of assets.

    To answer your last question, there isn't really a best way to move forward because you'd need a time machine.
    • Malibusmash
    • By Malibusmash 19th Mar 17, 9:18 AM
    • 74 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Malibusmash
    • #9
    • 19th Mar 17, 9:18 AM
    • #9
    • 19th Mar 17, 9:18 AM
    Understood. Many thanks. Back to planning to funeral.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 19th Mar 17, 9:38 AM
    • 6,295 Posts
    • 6,656 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    Understood. Many thanks. Back to planning to funeral.
    Originally posted by Malibusmash
    Sorry, didn't realise it was as so recent, my commiserations.
    • woolly_wombat
    • By woolly_wombat 19th Mar 17, 11:45 AM
    • 453 Posts
    • 264 Thanks
    woolly_wombat
    Commiserations on your recent loss Malibusmash.
    If your dad had left his half of the home to you it would be protected. It's too late now to try to stop the house being used for care fees if your mum needs nursing.
    Originally posted by LindaMary
    Might a deed of variation be possible to pass your late father's half of the house to you?

    Suggest you seek legal advice.
    • kidmugsy
    • By kidmugsy 19th Mar 17, 11:53 AM
    • 9,260 Posts
    • 6,075 Thanks
    kidmugsy
    Commiserations on your recent loss Malibusmash.

    Might a deed of variation be possible to pass your late father's half of the house to you?

    Suggest you seek legal advice.
    Originally posted by woolly_wombat
    The problem seems to be that the deceased didn't own half the house; joint tenants own the whole house jointly. So on his death the whole house is automatically owned by his widow. To be able to leave half a house as you wish you must become tenants-in-common. (Naturally the law is different in Scotland.)
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 19th Mar 17, 12:57 PM
    • 3,016 Posts
    • 3,212 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    On the bright side, as a self funder your mother will have a greater choice if she ever does need care.

    The last thing anyone should be planning for is to have to rely on LA funding for care, it's not great for people needing it now and going forward it is going to get worse.
    • 3card
    • By 3card 19th Mar 17, 8:30 PM
    • 133 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    3card
    I have recently been through a similar episode.
    My Father passed away in Feb 2014 and approx 9 months previous we set up LPA for both my Mom & Dad and while this process was being sorted they asked for their wills to be bought up to date.

    Fast forward to 9 months a friend of mine said he 'altered' his Dads will who had passed away to leave his 50% of the house to my friend and his sister (i know understand this was a deed of variation)
    I rang the guy that did the LPA's and the wills to discuss this and he said as part of the process he had sorted out the land registry and that Dad's share of the home was left in trust to family members.

    My mom's health got worse and in 2015 she had to move into a care home to be looked after. The home was sold and Moms share - 50% - as been paying for her care up to now.

    As someone said the benefit of this is that we/she has a choice of which home she can stay in which is some comfort at least

    I know the process can eat away at you but from personal experience i can tell you it does get better.

    Just another point. I was told once Moms money came through from the sale of the house i could purchase a funeral plan out of the proceeds as this would be an acceptable expense

    Good luck with whatever you sort out
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