Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • EdEddnEddy88
    • By EdEddnEddy88 19th Mar 17, 5:18 AM
    • 3Posts
    • 1Thanks
    EdEddnEddy88
    PCN came through post but no APNR used, driver was in the car at the time.
    • #1
    • 19th Mar 17, 5:18 AM
    PCN came through post but no APNR used, driver was in the car at the time. 19th Mar 17 at 5:18 AM
    Hi Everyone!

    I've read through the Newbie post and it's great, it's very informative, can't thank you enough.

    I'm dealing with a PCN I've received and have a couple of questions which I can't seem to find an answer to in the main post.

    - The first is as follows, why is it a bad idea to state the reasons why their charge isn't valid in the first appeal? I understand the idea of playing it as a "poker game" and not revealing your hand but, Park Direct UK are an IPC company. If it's emphasised that the IPC will very likely not accept the appeal, why bother with the generic letter as written in the main post for the first appeal, why not state the reasons in there?

    - Secondly, as stated in the title, the PCN I have received is a postal one but NOT using APNR. The pictures were taken using a handheld device and no notice was given to the driver or left on the car. The driver was inside, it is dark and the car lights are on, and the pictures were taken from behind, less than 3 minutes apart. This is not a scenario covered in the main post (and I can't seem to find anything on it), so I was wondering if that's a good enough reason to take to the IAS?

    Thank you for your time.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 19th Mar 17, 9:27 AM
    • 39,811 Posts
    • 79,691 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 19th Mar 17, 9:27 AM
    • #2
    • 19th Mar 17, 9:27 AM
    Mitigation doesn't work, only points of law, so there is no advantage in saying what happened. People who try that very often give away the driver's identity so the protection f the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 is lost.
    Saying things like, I was only parked for a minute, or I never left the car blows the POFA away, so it is better to stick to a fixed script that that does not reveal the driver's identity.

    The driver being in the car is still parking, but the scammer's employee should have mitigated the PPC's loss by telling the driver to move.

    The IPC does not have a fair appeals system and does not follow the requirements of the ADR 2015 Act, so there is little point in using the incestuous IAS appeals system.

    Making the initial appeal to the scammers is done purely to have ammunition should it ever get to court that you were reasonable and tried to engage with the scammers.

    Hand held camera images are unfortunately allowed, or more specifically they are not disallowed by the POFA 2012. The timeline however does apply when this method is used in that for the NTK to be POFA compliant it must be received by the keeper by day 14, counting from the first day after the date of the alleged event.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • EdEddnEddy88
    • By EdEddnEddy88 19th Mar 17, 11:52 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    EdEddnEddy88
    • #3
    • 19th Mar 17, 11:52 AM
    • #3
    • 19th Mar 17, 11:52 AM
    Thank you for your reply Fruitcake.

    That clears a few things up. So, in the first appeal, should I not mention that they have not kept to the IPC code of practice?

    As there is a section on informing the driver at the time if there was no APNR machine used. A section on illuminating signs if parking restrictions apply outside daylight hours (the signs are not). And, the fact that a grace period should be given, no duration of stay is given in the PCN, only the two time stamped pictures.

    Or are all these just not worth mentioning to the PPC?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 19th Mar 17, 12:18 PM
    • 14,818 Posts
    • 18,641 Thanks
    Redx
    • #4
    • 19th Mar 17, 12:18 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Mar 17, 12:18 PM
    never put your cards on the table

    its as simple as that

    they have to prove their case, all you have to do is query the validity of their case and put them to strict proof , without revealing anything yourself

    you see this daily on the tv in police shows etc where the person in the chair says "no comment" , their solicitor then tells the "claimant" to show their proof or release the client without charge

    this is a civil case, but similar principles apply , keeping stum being one of them

    if you dont understand the issues in keeping your cards a secret and keeping your trap shut, you have not learned any of the basics of the game
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 19th Mar 17, 12:24 PM
    • 39,811 Posts
    • 79,691 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #5
    • 19th Mar 17, 12:24 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Mar 17, 12:24 PM
    I agree with Redx. It is pointless trying to argue or reason with an unreasonably company.
    The initial appeal will be rejected no matter what you put in it, so why bother with more effort than a copy and paste. It will only be your time you are wasting if you want to add anything, and there is always the risk of revealing the driver's identity if you do.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • EdEddnEddy88
    • By EdEddnEddy88 19th Mar 17, 12:33 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    EdEddnEddy88
    • #6
    • 19th Mar 17, 12:33 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Mar 17, 12:33 PM
    Thank you for your patience Fruitcake. I understand my questions may seem obvious to some but that's why I'm here. I appreciate your help.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,468Posts Today

7,276Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • Byebye! I'm about to stop work & twitter, to instead spend glorious time with Mrs & mini MSE. Wishing u a lovely summer. See u in 10 days.

  • WARNING Did you start Uni in or after 2012? The interest's rising to 6.1%; yet it doesnt work like you think. See https://t.co/IQ8f0Vyetu RT

  • RT @JanaBeee: @MartinSLewis Boris is the anomaly (coffee), the others are versions of normal (beer). Lots of same candidates = vote share d?

  • Follow Martin