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  • FIRST POST
    • nmp
    • By nmp 18th Mar 17, 9:59 PM
    • 14Posts
    • 14Thanks
    nmp
    House guest won't leave.
    • #1
    • 18th Mar 17, 9:59 PM
    House guest won't leave. 18th Mar 17 at 9:59 PM
    This is a difficult situation for me, and I really need some help. A few years back I dated a woman who had a young child. We dated for 18 months before I ended it for a variety of reasons. About six months after this, during which time we remained in contact, she approached me to ask me for help. She was in private rented accommodation but in receipt of housing benefits. She'd lost her job and subsequently fallen behind on her rent and then was due to be evicted. I knew she was going through difficulties but she had just recently landed a new job and asked me if she and her child could stay at mine for a 'few weeks' while she sorted herself out. She had no family in the town where we live and her only alternative would have been to move back home to stay with her father.

    I agreed, thinking it may take a couple of months but never expected it to go on much more than that.

    It's now coming up to 9 months on, and I am at the end of my tether. Soon after moving in with myself she lost her new job, and then was told by the local authority that they would not help house her as she had made herself homeless by failing to pay rent. She has spent the past 9 months without working only recently finding a new job. During this time she has had no income and I have been supporting her and her child throughout this. Throughout this time she has refused to tidy up after herself, she refused to do any housework in the house, and generally is very untidy and unkempt. She doesn't seem to feel that she is a guest in my home and ought to try and keep the house in a manner that I ask.

    Over the 9 months we have argued numerous times and I have asked her to move out on a number of occasions but she knows that I am aware that the council have said that they won't help house her, and that I care about the wellbeing of the child enough that I won't just throw her out of the house with no where to go.

    However I am now at a point where I feel this arrangement is affecting my wellbeing hugely. I am no longer prepared to live this way and need to ask her to move. I am not sure how best to proceed.

    She has started to receive her mail at my address, without having asked if I am happy about that.

    Any advice on how to proceed from here would be much appreciated.

    Many thanks
    Last edited by nmp; 18-03-2017 at 10:10 PM.
Page 3
    • t0rt0ise
    • By t0rt0ise 20th Mar 17, 10:35 AM
    • 2,926 Posts
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    t0rt0ise
    You could tell her that the only way for her to get her own home is for you to ask her to leave and go to the council as homeless. This would show her that you aren't doing it to be mean but it's the only way and in her best interests. Then get her to gather her belongings and go to the council, either with the child or while the child is at school if old enough. The council will house them together in temporary accommodation until something more definite is available.
    • justme111
    • By justme111 20th Mar 17, 10:36 AM
    • 2,855 Posts
    • 2,741 Thanks
    justme111
    Out of interest , what if they were in relationship or had sex since she moved in. It should not change anything I suppose as her legal status would be the same.
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 20th Mar 17, 1:50 PM
    • 3,958 Posts
    • 2,466 Thanks
    csgohan4
    is she giving you 'favours' for staying there? I hope you used protection

    You would be in a world of hurt if she got pregnant with your child. You think it's bad now...
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land"
    • nmp
    • By nmp 20th Mar 17, 9:56 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    nmp
    Thank you all for so many helpful replies. Apologies for not replying earlier, I've just been quite busy with work. I do realise I have been too laid back in this situation so far, and that I really do need to act now. Thank you all for the supportive messages and advice. My concern has always been the welbeing of the child. Clearly my ex had some good points, otherwise I would not have dated her in the start, however, clearly she has lost her way. I have given her plenty of time to pull herself back together and she hasnt. I have let it linger on this long, because time after time, things seemed to be changing for the better, but never quite got there. I am at a point now, where I can't wait any longer. I think some of the replies here have really spelt it out. As much as I think this is helping her and the child, the reality is that I guess I'm just enabling her to not stand on her own two feet, and at the same time, not allowing her to establish some permanent stability for the child. Things have to change now.
    I think all you can do now is have a frank and senisitive converstation with her, in that the current situation can't continue and she needs to find her own accommodation. Take some of the advice on here around giving her written notice so she can go to the council and get accommodation, I agree because she has a child they will help get accommodation and there are presumably no safeguarding concerns so they will not just accommodate the child. Also she has not made herself intentionally homeless this time so they can help her. Yes its going to be difficult but I think you have to remember you have not done anything wrong, you have been more then kind letting her and her son stay as long as they have.
    Originally posted by Sjc1973
    You're right, I think I will sit her down and explain to her everything here, and hopefully she will understand a little, before giving her the letter to leave. Perhaps we can be grown up about this situation, and avoid the nastiness.

    i would not turn up at the Council with her or even book an appointment for 'advice' - once the housing team see an emotionally involved 'landlord/ friend' I am sure they would put pressure on you to keep her for a bit longer. Offer to take her there and that is it. Make sure it's first thing on a Monday morning and not a Friday. I would provide a letter the next day stating your side of the story, so they have it for her file. They will defo put her up in B&B accommodation if not a hostel; this could be out of county but it's accommodation at end of day. She may be better going to stay with her step-family. Assuming she has mental capacity and can weigh up risks presented to her - it is her decision!
    Not to be rude, but if you haven't anything else to gain from this friendship - I would start the ball rolling sooner than later. The child will want stability at nursery/ school and the earlier the better. Particularly if the kid needs to relocate. You need to withdraw emotionally, for the kid's sake, and look at the overall wellbeing of the child. The situation is just dragging on.
    Goodluck
    Originally posted by pollyannaL
    I am realising more and more that I need to withdraw emotionally. I guess I thought I was doing the right thing by the child by allowing them to remain, but the more I read, the more I realise, I'm not helping and instead, allowing this to drag on.

    Might this woman claim to be in a relationship with you?
    Advice might have to be different, if so....
    Just a thought
    Originally posted by sleepymans
    Its possible she may. With her friends, they are all aware that we are not involved, other than her staying at mine, but recently, in her new job, I have heard her describe me as her 'partner', when she was saying she was staying with me. I hope its nothing more than that.

    You have to tell her that you want her to leave. She is not going to go by herself. You tell her that she has to leave by a certain date. So she needs to find herself somewhere to live. She can do that by finding a private rental landlord who accepts housing benefit if she is not working or somewhere that she can afford but either way she has 1 week to find something. The local council will have a list of landlords that accept housing benefit.
    Do not help her. You have done enough "helping." 9 months is ample helping. She is bone idle and it is time that she started to take responsibility for her actions. You are not her parent or the child's grandparent.
    You need to be firm. You can give her a letter explaining the situation that she can take to the council. The council will give her emergency accommodation because they have a duty to house the child. Do not help her at all. You can't help her anyway because actually it is none of your business. You are not in a relationship so what she does is not your business. She is a lodger or house guest and you cannot interfere in her life. You also cannot interfere in the life of her child because you are not related.
    When she goes out on the day that she has to leave change the locks. Do not let her back in for any reason. If she leaves anything behind do not let her back in to get it. You can pack it up and put it ready to give to her outside but do not let her back in. Most of all do not feel sorry for her. She is using you.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    Thank you, I do realise this needs to change now. I'm hoping it doesn't come to the having to change the locks while she's out, and we can be civil and grown up about this, but if needs must, I will have to.

    Ok, from a Social Worker point of view (I am one):
    You give her 14 days written notice and advise her to go to the council with this. Assuming she does, she and her child will be placed in temporary accommodation for 28 days - they will not tell her this when she first goes, they will not offer this when she first goes, BUT when those 14 days are up, and you LITERALLY put her on the street, bags and all they will do it.
    That 28 days will give them time to conclude whether she is now intentionally homeless (not your problem).
    Should there be no temporary accommodation then they will likely put her in a B&B. If that in't possible then they will house the child in foster care, but as soon as mum has somewhere to stay they will give the child back. They will also not restrict access to said child.
    What is your relationship with this woman? Is there, or has there been, a romantic or sexual relationship since she moved in? Even once? As this ill impact her rights a bit.
    Originally posted by Rambosmum
    Thank you for the detailed reply, this is very helpful. My relationship is that we dated for 18 months ending about six months before she moved in with me. Initially after she moved in, there was a brief physical relationship, but I put an end to that, as I had moved on from the relationship already, and felt that the physical relationship was just confusing the situation unneccesarily. Since then there has been neither a physical or romantic relationship. How would this affect her rights?

    I agree, give her 14 days written notice. Make sure that the letter states, explicitly, that she must leave no later than [date] (maybe 12 noon on 3rd April, which is 2 weeks tomorrow and means that the notice expires on a Monday when the housing office etc will be open) and you you will not, under any circumstances, be able to allow her to remain after that date.
    Do not go with her to the housing office or speak to anyone on her behalf, and do not let her talk you in to offering to act as guarantor or to pay moving costs etc.
    She may well try to convince you to let her stay, or try to make you feel guilty about telling her to leave. You have been more than generous in letting her stay and in supporting her financially. If she tries to guilt-trip you, remind her that she was only supposed to stay for a few weeks.
    She should be provided with some help by the local council, this may well be in a B&B initially, and they won't provide it until she is physically homeless, so it is essential that you give her notice, and stick to it.
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    Thank you, once again, some very helpful supportive advice. I'm really hopeful that things will be civil and that she will be understanding. I will give her 28 days, purely for the sake of my own conscience, because I will feel I gave her the best chances to help herself, so hopefully she will make the effort to get herself sorted in this time, and things will not get messy afterwards.

    Failing which I will have to leave it to the local council to help her. Overall, it is for the best. The atmosphere in the house recently is awful, which I realise is not good for the child.


    I'm ready for the fight that will may come, but I can't put this off any more.
    I'll post again, once I've given her the letter.
    Thank you all. Wish me luck!
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 20th Mar 17, 10:08 PM
    • 1,877 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel
    You're a good guy, you've done more to help an ex and her child than most would.

    I expect some posters will advise that 28 days notice is over and above and will just mean a bad atmosphere for longer, however only you know what you and your conscience can happily live with after its all over so do what you think is best on that front.

    Good luck, I hope it goes as well as possible.
    • Rambosmum
    • By Rambosmum 20th Mar 17, 10:13 PM
    • 1,522 Posts
    • 1,978 Thanks
    Rambosmum

    Thank you for the detailed reply, this is very helpful. My relationship is that we dated for 18 months ending about six months before she moved in with me. Initially after she moved in, there was a brief physical relationship, but I put an end to that, as I had moved on from the relationship already, and felt that the physical relationship was just confusing the situation unneccesarily. Since then there has been neither a physical or romantic relationship. How would this affect her rights?

    Originally posted by nmp
    She could claim that she moved in believing that you wanted to resume the relationship and live 'as though you were married'. Which could give her rights of cohabitation, or at least claims of those rights. Unlikely that anyone will press those for her though if you lived in the house prior to her moving in and she hasn't contributed financially or physically. I wouldn't worry about it to be honest.

    Good luck with it.
    • Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • By Blackbeard of Perranporth 22nd Mar 17, 9:17 PM
    • 4,643 Posts
    • 28,024 Thanks
    Blackbeard of Perranporth
    Boot the b1t ch out!
    I soled my last sock
    For a whiff of your cheap perfume filled with hope of tears gone by
    • Lord Baltimore
    • By Lord Baltimore 22nd Mar 17, 10:39 PM
    • 1,298 Posts
    • 1,288 Thanks
    Lord Baltimore
    Boot the b1t ch out!
    Originally posted by Blackbeard of Perranporth
    Careful Blackbeard sensible and succinct advice is not appreciated by some on this forum
    all your base are belong to us
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 23rd Mar 17, 10:55 AM
    • 6,026 Posts
    • 7,776 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    She could claim that she moved in believing that you wanted to resume the relationship and live 'as though you were married'. Which could give her rights of cohabitation, or at least claims of those rights. Unlikely that anyone will press those for her though if you lived in the house prior to her moving in and she hasn't contributed financially or physically. I wouldn't worry about it to be honest.

    Good luck with it.
    Originally posted by Rambosmum
    There isn't any 'right of cohabitation' There are matrimonial home rights, which apply to married couples only, and there are rights which arise from financial contributions where there has ben an implied or explicit agreement, and very, very ocassionally there are rights under estoppel, which involve promises and reliance on them to the person's detriment - for example where someone gives up a secure tenancy in reliance on their partner's promise of a home. None of which apply here.

    there are also certain applications whih can be made wehre parties have a joint tenancy, which also don't apply.
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 23rd Mar 17, 11:59 AM
    • 14,120 Posts
    • 75,984 Thanks
    GDB2222
    She should be provided with some help by the local council, this may well be in a B&B initially, and they won't provide it until she is physically homeless, so it is essential that you give her notice, and stick to it.
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    This could be interpreted in a slightly misleading way. The council will wait until the last moment before providing alternative accommodation. So, if you give 28 days notice, they will wait to day 28. However, you don't actually have to eject the lady physically from the property before they take action.

    So, on day 28, she will have somewhere to move to. She may even have seen it in advance, or it may just be a B&B. So, there shouldn't be any heart-breaking scenes on the doorstep.

    The worst is that the OP might end up helping pay for a mini cab to move her stuff. Or he might end up as cheap storage for a while.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • D.W.27
    • By D.W.27 23rd Mar 17, 6:19 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    D.W.27
    From the sound of it you're within your right legally to throw her out. Have you tried getting in contact with her Father? If she's able to go there you're hardly throwing her and her child out on the street. I think you've clearly done the right thing for too long here and at this point she is taking advantage and manipulating you. I would call her father, see if you can arrange for him to come pick up the child and then throw her out and change the locks, end of story.
    • rentmekid
    • By rentmekid 24th Mar 17, 9:32 AM
    • 74 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    rentmekid
    Hi OP,


    enjoy the benefits while you can.
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