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  • FIRST POST
    • nmp
    • By nmp 18th Mar 17, 9:59 PM
    • 14Posts
    • 14Thanks
    nmp
    House guest won't leave.
    • #1
    • 18th Mar 17, 9:59 PM
    House guest won't leave. 18th Mar 17 at 9:59 PM
    This is a difficult situation for me, and I really need some help. A few years back I dated a woman who had a young child. We dated for 18 months before I ended it for a variety of reasons. About six months after this, during which time we remained in contact, she approached me to ask me for help. She was in private rented accommodation but in receipt of housing benefits. She'd lost her job and subsequently fallen behind on her rent and then was due to be evicted. I knew she was going through difficulties but she had just recently landed a new job and asked me if she and her child could stay at mine for a 'few weeks' while she sorted herself out. She had no family in the town where we live and her only alternative would have been to move back home to stay with her father.

    I agreed, thinking it may take a couple of months but never expected it to go on much more than that.

    It's now coming up to 9 months on, and I am at the end of my tether. Soon after moving in with myself she lost her new job, and then was told by the local authority that they would not help house her as she had made herself homeless by failing to pay rent. She has spent the past 9 months without working only recently finding a new job. During this time she has had no income and I have been supporting her and her child throughout this. Throughout this time she has refused to tidy up after herself, she refused to do any housework in the house, and generally is very untidy and unkempt. She doesn't seem to feel that she is a guest in my home and ought to try and keep the house in a manner that I ask.

    Over the 9 months we have argued numerous times and I have asked her to move out on a number of occasions but she knows that I am aware that the council have said that they won't help house her, and that I care about the wellbeing of the child enough that I won't just throw her out of the house with no where to go.

    However I am now at a point where I feel this arrangement is affecting my wellbeing hugely. I am no longer prepared to live this way and need to ask her to move. I am not sure how best to proceed.

    She has started to receive her mail at my address, without having asked if I am happy about that.

    Any advice on how to proceed from here would be much appreciated.

    Many thanks
    Last edited by nmp; 18-03-2017 at 10:10 PM.
Page 2
    • cjdavies
    • By cjdavies 19th Mar 17, 7:33 AM
    • 2,310 Posts
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    cjdavies
    It's a tough one, easy to say bags outside, change locks but with a child involved its complex as you want to least know she would do the right thing and also ensure the time of day so the council office is still open to visit for emergency housing.
    • Sjc1973
    • By Sjc1973 19th Mar 17, 7:46 AM
    • 76 Posts
    • 185 Thanks
    Sjc1973
    I think all you can do now is have a frank and senisitive converstation with her, in that the current situation can't continue and she needs to find her own accommodation. Take some of the advice on here around giving her written notice so she can go to the council and get accommodation, I agree because she has a child they will help get accommodation and there are presumably no safeguarding concerns so they will not just accommodate the child. Also she has not made herself intentionally homeless this time so they can help her. Yes its going to be difficult but I think you have to remember you have not done anything wrong, you have been more then kind letting her and her son stay as long as they have.
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 19th Mar 17, 8:42 AM
    • 3,483 Posts
    • 2,164 Thanks
    csgohan4
    OP your being taken for a ride. Think with your brain, not down below
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land"
    • Tigsteroonie
    • By Tigsteroonie 19th Mar 17, 8:51 AM
    • 22,421 Posts
    • 55,872 Thanks
    Tigsteroonie
    This is the point that I'm concerned about. I hear that the council have a duty to house a child, but would that mean that they would seperate the mother from the child? Thats something I wouldn't want to happen
    Originally posted by nmp
    That's not your problem. It's not your child. Do you worry this much about all the other unfortunate children in the world?

    Let the mother (& her family) worry about the child.
    Going to become Mrs Marleyboy for real

    MSE: many of the benefits of a helpful family, without disadvantages like having to compete for the tv remote

    Proud Parents to an Au-some son
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 19th Mar 17, 9:03 AM
    • 13,836 Posts
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    GDB2222
    It's a tough one, easy to say bags outside, change locks but with a child involved its complex as you want to least know she would do the right thing and also ensure the time of day so the council office is still open to visit for emergency housing.
    Originally posted by cjdavies
    Even an excluded occupier is entitled to reasonable notice. i agree that the notice does not have to be in writing. However, the OP wants the lady to be rehoused and a natty piece of paper she can take to the council will help.

    http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/eviction_of_private_tenants/eviction_of_excluded_occupiers

    How long is reasonable depends on the lodger's behaviour. As she is not threatening, merely annoying, 14 days should be okay. And it will reduce the trauma for the child slightly. The OP clearly wants to end this situation in as civilised a way as possible, so that's what I am suggesting.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 19th Mar 17, 9:27 AM
    • 1,187 Posts
    • 2,867 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel

    She didn't conceive this child by herself. Is the child living with the father an option since the mother doesn't seem capable of looking after herself or another human being?
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    Oh I don't think she's stupid, she's very effectively got herself free accommodation and herself and her child supported by a too nice ex!

    OP, I wouldn't worry that the child will be taken away, its much easier and cheaper for the council to put them both in a B&B room than to go through the complicated process of removing the child and there aren't exactly an abundance of foster carers around.
    • freeisgood
    • By freeisgood 19th Mar 17, 10:59 AM
    • 471 Posts
    • 729 Thanks
    freeisgood
    If she turned up at the council offices after you changed locks etc...they would definitely rehome them together....probably in a hostel initially if not a flat immediately. It is their duty (you have been selfless and not in anyway selfish) .
    • pollyannaL
    • By pollyannaL 19th Mar 17, 11:22 AM
    • 76 Posts
    • 50 Thanks
    pollyannaL
    i would not turn up at the Council with her or even book an appointment for 'advice' - once the housing team see an emotionally involved 'landlord/ friend' I am sure they would put pressure on you to keep her for a bit longer. Offer to take her there and that is it. Make sure it's first thing on a Monday morning and not a Friday. I would provide a letter the next day stating your side of the story, so they have it for her file. They will defo put her up in B&B accommodation if not a hostel; this could be out of county but it's accommodation at end of day. She may be better going to stay with her step-family. Assuming she has mental capacity and can weigh up risks presented to her - it is her decision!

    Not to be rude, but if you haven't anything else to gain from this friendship - I would start the ball rolling sooner than later. The child will want stability at nursery/ school and the earlier the better. Particularly if the kid needs to relocate. You need to withdraw emotionally, for the kid's sake, and look at the overall wellbeing of the child. The situation is just dragging on.

    Goodluck
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 19th Mar 17, 12:38 PM
    • 28,785 Posts
    • 17,216 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Even an excluded occupier is entitled to reasonable notice. i agree that the notice does not have to be in writing. However, the OP wants the lady to be rehoused and a natty piece of paper she can take to the council will help.

    http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/eviction_of_private_tenants/eviction_of_excluded_occupiers

    How long is reasonable depends on the lodger's behaviour. As she is not threatening, merely annoying, 14 days should be okay. And it will reduce the trauma for the child slightly. The OP clearly wants to end this situation in as civilised a way as possible, so that's what I am suggesting.
    Originally posted by GDB2222
    Next time you let someone in your house as guest(not a lodger) how much notice will you be giving them to go when they now insist it is their home?


    The guest has had plenty of notice they are no longer welcome, time to lock the door behind them next time they leave the building.
    • sleepymans
    • By sleepymans 19th Mar 17, 1:22 PM
    • 591 Posts
    • 880 Thanks
    sleepymans
    Might this woman claim to be in a relationship with you?
    Advice might have to be different, if so....
    Just a thought
    Goddess
    • Lloyd90
    • By Lloyd90 19th Mar 17, 1:37 PM
    • 80 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    Lloyd90
    Exactly my thinking.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 19th Mar 17, 3:40 PM
    • 2,493 Posts
    • 3,277 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    You have to tell her that you want her to leave. She is not going to go by herself. You tell her that she has to leave by a certain date. So she needs to find herself somewhere to live. She can do that by finding a private rental landlord who accepts housing benefit if she is not working or somewhere that she can afford but either way she has 1 week to find something. The local council will have a list of landlords that accept housing benefit.

    Do not help her. You have done enough "helping." 9 months is ample helping. She is bone idle and it is time that she started to take responsibility for her actions. You are not her parent or the child's grandparent.

    You need to be firm. You can give her a letter explaining the situation that she can take to the council. The council will give her emergency accommodation because they have a duty to house the child. Do not help her at all. You can't help her anyway because actually it is none of your business. You are not in a relationship so what she does is not your business. She is a lodger or house guest and you cannot interfere in her life. You also cannot interfere in the life of her child because you are not related.

    When she goes out on the day that she has to leave change the locks. Do not let her back in for any reason. If she leaves anything behind do not let her back in to get it. You can pack it up and put it ready to give to her outside but do not let her back in. Most of all do not feel sorry for her. She is using you.
    • Rambosmum
    • By Rambosmum 19th Mar 17, 3:42 PM
    • 1,291 Posts
    • 1,736 Thanks
    Rambosmum
    Ok, from a Social Worker point of view (I am one):

    You give her 14 days written notice and advise her to go to the council with this. Assuming she does, she and her child will be placed in temporary accommodation for 28 days - they will not tell her this when she first goes, they will not offer this when she first goes, BUT when those 14 days are up, and you LITERALLY put her on the street, bags and all they will do it.

    That 28 days will give them time to conclude whether she is now intentionally homeless (not your problem).

    Should there be no temporary accommodation then they will likely put her in a B&B. If that in't possible then they will house the child in foster care, but as soon as mum has somewhere to stay they will give the child back. They will also not restrict access to said child.

    What is your relationship with this woman? Is there, or has there been, a romantic or sexual relationship since she moved in? Even once? As this ill impact her rights a bit.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 19th Mar 17, 6:03 PM
    • 5,539 Posts
    • 7,261 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    I agree, give her 14 days written notice. Make sure that the letter states, explicitly, that she must leave no later than [date] (maybe 12 noon on 3rd April, which is 2 weeks tomorrow and means that the notice expires on a Monday when the housing office etc will be open) and you you will not, under any circumstances, be able to allow her to remain after that date.

    Do not go with her to the housing office or speak to anyone on her behalf, and do not let her talk you in to offering to act as guarantor or to pay moving costs etc.

    She may well try to convince you to let her stay, or try to make you feel guilty about telling her to leave. You have been more than generous in letting her stay and in supporting her financially. If she tries to guilt-trip you, remind her that she was only supposed to stay for a few weeks.

    She should be provided with some help by the local council, this may well be in a B&B initially, and they won't provide it until she is physically homeless, so it is essential that you give her notice, and stick to it.
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 19th Mar 17, 6:13 PM
    • 13,836 Posts
    • 73,712 Thanks
    GDB2222
    "Do not go with her to the housing office or speak to anyone on her behalf"

    Why not? The natural feeling is to do anything to help the lady get rehoused. What's the downside?
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 19th Mar 17, 6:35 PM
    • 1,257 Posts
    • 1,010 Thanks
    parking_question_chap
    The fact she refuses to clear up would be it for me.

    Change the locks dude and pretend to be out when she comes back leave a note on the door telling her to go to the council and collect her things at later date, will be painful when it all kicks off but best in the long run. Council probably have to find her emergeny housing.

    I would also explain in the not why you have booted her out. Might stop her going crazy and damaging things.

    Longer this goes on the harder it will get, and more rights she will have (probably) seeing as the laws are pretty messed up like that.
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 19th Mar 17, 6:40 PM
    • 1,082 Posts
    • 2,936 Thanks
    Penitent
    "Do not go with her to the housing office or speak to anyone on her behalf"

    Why not? The natural feeling is to do anything to help the lady get rehoused. What's the downside?
    Originally posted by GDB2222
    If he goes with her, it shows a desire to support her, and the Council may refuse to house her as they may not believe the OP is really willing to chuck her out (what with him being such a supportive soul and all). There were a few examples of this on that Channel 4 programme about Council housing a few years back, where parents were taking their adult children to the housing office and saying they were going to chuck them out. It didn't work and the kid was inevitably still living with the parent months later.

    It's better to write a letter telling her she has to leave, as she can then show it to the Council as evidence that he's really chucking her out.
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 19th Mar 17, 7:12 PM
    • 13,836 Posts
    • 73,712 Thanks
    GDB2222
    I don't know, what is it that you think you might have misunderstood?
    Originally posted by Lord Baltimore
    You seem to be suggesting that using hobnail boots to kick the !!!! out of your spouse is acceptable. If so, can I just say that I, for one, am totally disgusted by that.

    Even as a joke, it's simply unacceptable on a public forum.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • Lord Baltimore
    • By Lord Baltimore 20th Mar 17, 1:11 AM
    • 1,293 Posts
    • 1,277 Thanks
    Lord Baltimore
    You seem to be suggesting that using hobnail boots to kick the !!!! out of your spouse is acceptable. If so, can I just say that I, for one, am totally disgusted by that.

    Even as a joke, it's simply unacceptable on a public forum.
    Originally posted by GDB2222
    I suggested nothing of the sort. The boots were for Adam to attend his allotment where he has a man-shed to which he can retire for solace like many of us do.

    I am totally disgusted by your presumptuousness and that you have had posts removed under false pretences.
    all your base are belong to us
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 20th Mar 17, 10:13 AM
    • 5,539 Posts
    • 7,261 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    "Do not go with her to the housing office or speak to anyone on her behalf"

    Why not? The natural feeling is to do anything to help the lady get rehoused. What's the downside?
    Originally posted by GDB2222
    Because it make it less belioveable when she tells the hsing office that he is not her partner and that she is genuinely about to be thrown out. I agree that it is the natural thing to want tto help, which is why it is worth specifcally advising againsts it, as in this particualr situation it islikely to be counter-productive.

    The same thing applies to agreeing to extend the deadline for her to leave.
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