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  • FIRST POST
    • nmp
    • By nmp 18th Mar 17, 9:59 PM
    • 14Posts
    • 14Thanks
    nmp
    House guest won't leave.
    • #1
    • 18th Mar 17, 9:59 PM
    House guest won't leave. 18th Mar 17 at 9:59 PM
    This is a difficult situation for me, and I really need some help. A few years back I dated a woman who had a young child. We dated for 18 months before I ended it for a variety of reasons. About six months after this, during which time we remained in contact, she approached me to ask me for help. She was in private rented accommodation but in receipt of housing benefits. She'd lost her job and subsequently fallen behind on her rent and then was due to be evicted. I knew she was going through difficulties but she had just recently landed a new job and asked me if she and her child could stay at mine for a 'few weeks' while she sorted herself out. She had no family in the town where we live and her only alternative would have been to move back home to stay with her father.

    I agreed, thinking it may take a couple of months but never expected it to go on much more than that.

    It's now coming up to 9 months on, and I am at the end of my tether. Soon after moving in with myself she lost her new job, and then was told by the local authority that they would not help house her as she had made herself homeless by failing to pay rent. She has spent the past 9 months without working only recently finding a new job. During this time she has had no income and I have been supporting her and her child throughout this. Throughout this time she has refused to tidy up after herself, she refused to do any housework in the house, and generally is very untidy and unkempt. She doesn't seem to feel that she is a guest in my home and ought to try and keep the house in a manner that I ask.

    Over the 9 months we have argued numerous times and I have asked her to move out on a number of occasions but she knows that I am aware that the council have said that they won't help house her, and that I care about the wellbeing of the child enough that I won't just throw her out of the house with no where to go.

    However I am now at a point where I feel this arrangement is affecting my wellbeing hugely. I am no longer prepared to live this way and need to ask her to move. I am not sure how best to proceed.

    She has started to receive her mail at my address, without having asked if I am happy about that.

    Any advice on how to proceed from here would be much appreciated.

    Many thanks
    Last edited by nmp; 18-03-2017 at 10:10 PM.
Page 1
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 18th Mar 17, 10:06 PM
    • 666 Posts
    • 1,790 Thanks
    Penitent
    • #2
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:06 PM
    • #2
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:06 PM
    I mean this in the nicest possible way, but tell her to !!!! off.

    She can then go to the Council and tell them she's being made homeless unintentionally this time.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 18th Mar 17, 10:07 PM
    • 679 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel
    • #3
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:07 PM
    • #3
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:07 PM
    Have you spoken to anybody at the council's housing department yourself?

    I'm fairly sure they'd have still have a responsibility to house the child, even though the mother was classed as intentionally homeless.
    • Hoploz
    • By Hoploz 18th Mar 17, 10:08 PM
    • 3,498 Posts
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    Hoploz
    • #4
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:08 PM
    • #4
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:08 PM
    If you evict her then the council couldn't say she was intentionally homeless and I'm sure they would put her on their list or however it works.

    However I can't help with how you evict someone with no lease ... Someone else will help more
    • Shakin Steve
    • By Shakin Steve 18th Mar 17, 10:10 PM
    • 696 Posts
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    Shakin Steve
    • #5
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:10 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:10 PM
    You must know how to go about this through legal channels, there is certainly enough information on the subject. But your post is mainly of a personal nature, and I really don't see how anyone on here can advise you on those matters. Only you know how the relationship between the three of you works, and how it affects your options.
    I came into this world with nothing and I've got most of it left.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 18th Mar 17, 10:12 PM
    • 679 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel
    • #6
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:12 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:12 PM

    However I can't help with how you evict someone with no lease ... Someone else will help more
    Originally posted by Hoploz
    Like a lodger I suppose, formal written notice and then call the police if they refuse to leave on the final day.
    • glosoli
    • By glosoli 18th Mar 17, 10:13 PM
    • 335 Posts
    • 164 Thanks
    glosoli
    • #7
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:13 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:13 PM
    What a horrible situation,

    Easier said than done, but could you give her an absolute deadline of 24 hours, and organise for the locks to be changed etc, and if she refuses to go phone the police and say you have a trespasser in your house? If I was you I would also try and covertly record your conversations, so that if/when !!!! hits the fan, she cannot go inventing stories to make you look like the bad guy here.
    • Shakin Steve
    • By Shakin Steve 18th Mar 17, 10:18 PM
    • 696 Posts
    • 489 Thanks
    Shakin Steve
    • #8
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:18 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:18 PM
    None of the above 'throw her out' posts are really relevant if you've already said you won't see the child homeless. It's a mess, not so much legally as emotionally. She's got you by the short and curlies and, unless you're prepared to get a bit selfish for your own wellbeing, you're stuck.
    I came into this world with nothing and I've got most of it left.
    • Fireflyaway
    • By Fireflyaway 18th Mar 17, 10:21 PM
    • 821 Posts
    • 821 Thanks
    Fireflyaway
    • #9
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:21 PM
    • #9
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:21 PM
    Write a letter telling her she has to leave by a certain date and tell her to take it to the council. The council will sort something out if she is being made homeless and has a child. Also contact your local floating support team. They can support her in applying for benefits / accessing somewhere to live etc. Unless you tell her straight she has to leave, the council won't help, as although not great for you she is still housed.
    • glasgowdan
    • By glasgowdan 18th Mar 17, 10:23 PM
    • 2,115 Posts
    • 2,306 Thanks
    glasgowdan
    But she wouldn't be homeless. If she was given a written notice to say she had 30 days, she could surely take this to the council.

    You say she is now working... well she'd be able to afford a very short term stay at a B&B surely. What family does she have?
    • nmp
    • By nmp 18th Mar 17, 11:15 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    nmp
    Thank you all for the comments, really appreciated. I'll try to reply to some here, sorry if I miss your comment.


    None of the above 'throw her out' posts are really relevant if you've already said you won't see the child homeless. It's a mess, not so much legally as emotionally. She's got you by the short and curlies and, unless you're prepared to get a bit selfish for your own wellbeing, you're stuck.
    Originally posted by Shakin Steve

    I have recently come to realise that I have to get selfish for my own wellbeing, I guess part of me was just hoping that the situation would resolve itself without the nastiness that looks like it is now inevitable. I suppose I was hoping that there was another, third way, whereby the child wouldn't end up homeless, and we could all move on with our separate lives. This is looking unlikely. But some good points on here that I need to explore further.


    Write a letter telling her she has to leave by a certain date and tell her to take it to the council. The council will sort something out if she is being made homeless and has a child. Also contact your local floating support team. They can support her in applying for benefits / accessing somewhere to live etc. Unless you tell her straight she has to leave, the council won't help, as although not great for you she is still housed.
    Originally posted by Fireflyaway

    I think this may be the right approach. I have no experience or understanding of how these things work, so was hoping someone with knowledge may be able to advise. For example, if the housing department decided that they had no duty to help house her, was that really the end of it? I've not heard of the 'floating support team'. What exactly do they do?

    Have you spoken to anybody at the council's housing department yourself?
    I'm fairly sure they'd have still have a responsibility to house the child, even though the mother was classed as intentionally homeless.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel

    This is the point that I'm concerned about. I hear that the council have a duty to house a child, but would that mean that they would seperate the mother from the child? Thats something I wouldn't want to happen, clearly its not a good thing for either of them. I haven't actually spoken with the housing department myself. I have tried, but each time there is a long wait on the phone, and when you do get hold of somebody, I'm told I need to make an appointment to meet with an advisor. I guess I have to go down that route next. I also worry that they'll only tell me what's best for them. I have tried to speak to CAB as well, but again, if you're working full time, its almost impossible to get an appointment to talk to them, and the telephone lines are always engaged. Again, I'm sure my boss would frown on me spending my days on the phone.


    But she wouldn't be homeless. If she was given a written notice to say she had 30 days, she could surely take this to the council.
    You say she is now working... well she'd be able to afford a very short term stay at a B&B surely. What family does she have?
    Originally posted by glasgowdan

    Yes, she is working, she's only recently started, this month. In terms of family, she has an estranged father, and a step mother and step siblings living four hours away. They have said they would help, but it would be a big move for her away from everything she knows, to a family she barely knows, which is why I initially said I would support her. I suppose worst case scenario, she would always have somewhere to go.


    Regards the actual process to evict her, she doesn't pay rent, and she doesn't have a tenancy agreement. I think the correct process is for me to write her a 'Notice to Quit', giving her 28 days to vacate the property, after which time I would either ask the Police to ask her to leave, or change the locks to prevent her returning. Neither of these particularly favourable, but I realise that I must now take the initiative to change my situation.


    If anyone is privy to how the council housing systems function, that would be really helpful.


    Many Thanks
    Last edited by nmp; 18-03-2017 at 11:24 PM.
    • stator
    • By stator 18th Mar 17, 11:28 PM
    • 5,489 Posts
    • 3,486 Thanks
    stator
    Change the locks so she has to knock to get in. That will send a pretty strong message.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • kelpie35
    • By kelpie35 18th Mar 17, 11:43 PM
    • 1,360 Posts
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    kelpie35
    As far as I am aware she would need to go to the housing department and say she is now homeless.

    She and her child would probably be put into emergency accommodation and then be housed at a later date if there was someplace empty.

    I am sorry that you have found yourself in this predicament but you need to put yourself first now. Don't allow her to make you ill.

    Take care.
    • Lloyd90
    • By Lloyd90 19th Mar 17, 1:33 AM
    • 79 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    Lloyd90
    Not only is she massively taking advantage of you, she's also taking the total PIZZ when she leaves your house in a mess and refuses to clean up any mess she has made.

    I'd change the locks and tell her to do one! (Might have to check the legalities first unfortunately), will she even be a lodger if shes never paid rent etc? I hope not, she deserves to be out on her !!!! listening to her behaviour!
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 19th Mar 17, 4:27 AM
    • 21,887 Posts
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    Davesnave
    As kelpie's post above, the council have a duty and they will keep mother & child together, as that is the easiest/cheapest option, but it may well be in B&B type accommodation.

    When you choose to change the locks, try to make sure you have a friend with you, because it's likely that this person won't take heed of a notice to quit and they may become abusive. They will probably try to use emotional blackmail first.

    From a practical point of view, you need to make sure that they are aware of the situation change early enough in the day to visit the council's housing dept. However, whether they do that, or indeed what they do next is not your concern.

    This person has done very well out of you, but it's time for them to move on and take proper adult responsibilty for their life.
    I used to suffer with kleptomania, but now I take something for it.
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 19th Mar 17, 5:28 AM
    • 13,670 Posts
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    GDB2222
    A lodger has some protection, and it's illegal just to change the locks and not allow them in. You need to provide reasonable notice, in writing. Reasonable is not clearly defined, but probably 14-28 days. If your health is deteriorating, less might be okay. If you can manage another 28 days, that's the safe option. For purely practical reasons, the notice should expire on a weekday.

    Besides that, she will need time to see the council, and organise things. So give as much notice as you can. The council will rehouse her and the child together, but it costs money so they usually leave it until the end of the notice period.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • By Blackbeard of Perranporth 19th Mar 17, 5:43 AM
    • 4,215 Posts
    • 25,071 Thanks
    Blackbeard of Perranporth
    Bags. Doorstep.

    Change locks.
    No one dreams of escape
    From the aroma of a cheap jar of coffee
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 19th Mar 17, 6:19 AM
    • 13,670 Posts
    • 72,577 Thanks
    GDB2222
    Bags. Doorstep.

    Change locks.
    Originally posted by Blackbeard of Perranporth
    Police. Jail.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 19th Mar 17, 6:54 AM
    • 9,904 Posts
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    Pixie5740
    At best she's an excluded occupier. Legally you just have to give reasonable notice and reasonable notice is a week. I don't know where some people are getting 28 days from. Who would want to share a home with an unwelcome excluded occupier for any longer than necessary? You don't even need to give excluded occupiers notice in writing.

    She didn't conceive this child by herself. Is the child living with the father an option since the mother doesn't seem capable of looking after herself or another human being? If that's not an option then this woman does have family she could possibly stay with even if they are far away. Beggars cannot be choosers.

    There's no point tying yourself in knots over this. The child is her responsibility, not yours. Unless you're prepared to take some action then you'll need to learn to put up with the situation.

    I wouldn't even bother contacting the housing department or any other agency on her behalf. She's a grown woman, it's time she stood on her own two feet.
    Last edited by Pixie5740; 19-03-2017 at 8:00 AM. Reason: typo
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • Vectis
    • By Vectis 19th Mar 17, 6:54 AM
    • 400 Posts
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    Vectis
    Police. Jail.
    Originally posted by GDB2222


    What would he be convicted of and sent to jail for? Putting someone's bags on the doorstep and changing the locks?

    She's not a tenant and possibly not even a lodger as she doesn't pay rent or contribute in any way.

    But...the op should do the decent thing (not that he hasn't done so already) and give her 14 days notice in writing. And then evict her.
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