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  • FIRST POST
    • alladin
    • By alladin 18th Mar 17, 3:00 PM
    • 21Posts
    • 9Thanks
    alladin
    Double-glazed replacement wood sash-windows
    • #1
    • 18th Mar 17, 3:00 PM
    Double-glazed replacement wood sash-windows 18th Mar 17 at 3:00 PM
    Hi,

    We've recently bought a property and knew we'd need to replace the windows, unfortunately we didn't realise it'll need to happen so soon.

    We have old wooden sash single glazed windows some of which have hairline cracks or the frames have gaps. I've looked at all options; casement windows, UpVC sash but decided to go with hardwood double glazing sash replacement as that's the only option which does not require ripping out the existing wooden fixtures. I don't live in a conservation area but I want to keep the original features.

    The quote I've been given is £730 per window in Kiln dried Mahogany double glazing including horns (like for like). The quote is irrespective of the size of the window as apparently the price is more about the labour rather than the materials. I have 22 windows, of which 3 are small .5m (w) 1m (h). Extra for locks, paint and vertical bars.

    I don't mind paying the money as long as I'm getting my money's worth. Question is, am I getting my money's worth? I don't know how to measure this as none of the site give pricing. Comparing it with other quotes I've received it not exactly the same as everyone uses different materials and they all feel their material is better suited.

    I've read that oak is the best and having sound proofing windows is advisable. But is this worth it, the windows don't face the main road however I does retain heat better than double glazing.

    If anyone has experience this, what would you advise? Should I be looking for companies who use oak? Would spending extra £90 on sound proofing be worth while? Are the prices realistic bearing in mind I live in Cardiff.

    thank you in advance.
Page 1
    • Private Church
    • By Private Church 18th Mar 17, 6:39 PM
    • 444 Posts
    • 1,330 Thanks
    Private Church
    • #2
    • 18th Mar 17, 6:39 PM
    • #2
    • 18th Mar 17, 6:39 PM
    Hi,



    decided to go with hardwood double glazing sash replacement as that's the only option which does not require ripping out the existing wooden fixtures. I don't live in a conservation area but I want to keep the original features.
    Originally posted by alladin
    Using the original boxes and replacing only the sashes is ok as long as the boxes are in tip top condition otherwise in a few years time you will have rotten boxframes with nice sashes in them. Also worth noting because of the increased weight of the glass you will need longer ,heavier weights so whoever makes the sashes needs to work out if there is enough room/height in the boxes to take the extra weight.

    The quote I've been given is £730 per window in Kiln dried Mahogany double glazing including horns (like for like). The quote is irrespective of the size of the window as apparently the price is more about the labour rather than the materials. I have 22 windows, of which 3 are small .5m (w) 1m (h). Extra for locks, paint and vertical bars.
    "Kiln dried mahogany" is a generic name so without knowing what species of timber and what type of double glazing you would be getting its difficult to tell if its value for money. One thing to remember is there's no point in fitting double glazing if you don't have the draught proofing carried out at the same time..



    I've read that oak is the best and having sound proofing windows is advisable. But is this worth it, the windows don't face the main road however I does retain heat better than double glazing.
    No point using Oak to be honest as its hugely expensive and will certainly outlast the boxframes. Also its difficult to paint due to tanic acid in the timber.

    If anyone has experience this, what would you advise? Should I be looking for companies who use oak? Would spending extra £90 on sound proofing be worth while? Are the prices realistic bearing in mind I live in Cardiff.
    What do they class as soundproofing? If its basically fitting draught strips then it will help the acoustics a little but better for thermal value so should be done as a matter of coarse when replacing the sashes and is as simple as routing a groove in the sashes and fitting weatherstrips which should be very cheap per window.

    Can you post the actual wording from the quote word for word?.
    Last edited by Private Church; 18-03-2017 at 6:57 PM.
    • RobinsonE
    • By RobinsonE 21st Mar 17, 2:50 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    RobinsonE
    • #3
    • 21st Mar 17, 2:50 PM
    • #3
    • 21st Mar 17, 2:50 PM
    I would recommend Accoya wood. It is guaranteed against rot for 50 years.

    I would expect most companies to carry out draught proofing at the same time as installing new windows. If they don't I would definitely recommend getting this done - it will save you money in the long term on heating costs and makes your home nicer to live in!

    I would say the prices look quite cheap to me, but it might be due to the hidden extras which are normally included in the price (locks, paint, draught proofing...).
    • Private Church
    • By Private Church 21st Mar 17, 7:58 PM
    • 444 Posts
    • 1,330 Thanks
    Private Church
    • #4
    • 21st Mar 17, 7:58 PM
    • #4
    • 21st Mar 17, 7:58 PM
    I would recommend Accoya wood. It is guaranteed against rot for 50 years.
    Originally posted by RobinsonE
    Not sure if its correct but I was told that Accoya only gives a long warranty if you go on one of their training courses. Its also hugely expensive and costs as much as European Oak so why not use Oak. Its very good for bi fold doors because it doesn't expand in the Winter months which can be a real pain with bi-fold doors. The downsides are its very,very expensive,you can only use certain glues when using it and any fixing must me stainless steel. The reason its hugely expensive is because only 2 companies have the licence to import it into the UK so they keep the price high by restricting supply. At the end of the day its a cheap pine timber vacuum pressure treated and then sold at a huge premium and I really question why no other companies are allowed to import it which would prevent these companies from fixing the prices. So companies nationwide have to buy it from 2 companies and they set the price for the whole country. Other timber importers are developing similar products which should bring the prices down to a realistic level.

    Its also worth pointing out they claim its eco friendly because its actually Radiata pine but when I looked they harvest the trees in New Zealand and transport the timber half way round the world to Holland where they put it in a vacuum and take out all the moisture ,then impregnate it with a form of acetic acid and then transport it all over the world so I do question how enviromentally friendly it really is.



    I would say the prices look quite cheap to me, but it might be due to the hidden extras which are normally included in the price (locks, paint, draught proofing...).
    I agree with this and it seems strange to me that a company would price the job to fit double glazed sashes but charge draught proofing as an optional extra..
    Last edited by Private Church; 21-03-2017 at 8:03 PM.
    • FreeBear
    • By FreeBear 21st Mar 17, 11:50 PM
    • 1,378 Posts
    • 1,943 Thanks
    FreeBear
    • #5
    • 21st Mar 17, 11:50 PM
    • #5
    • 21st Mar 17, 11:50 PM
    Its also worth pointing out they claim its eco friendly because its actually Radiata pine but when I looked they harvest the trees in New Zealand and transport the timber half way round the world to Holland
    Originally posted by Private Church
    It is also grown in many countries across the world where it has displaced native woodlands to the detriment of the local ecology - In a few areas (including New Zealand), it is considered an invasive weed by some.
    Her courage will change the world.

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    • zoothornrollo
    • By zoothornrollo 12th Apr 17, 9:33 AM
    • 255 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    zoothornrollo
    • #6
    • 12th Apr 17, 9:33 AM
    • #6
    • 12th Apr 17, 9:33 AM
    Hi,

    We've recently bought a property and knew we'd need to replace the windows, unfortunately we didn't realise it'll need to happen so soon.

    We have old wooden sash single glazed windows some of which have hairline cracks or the frames have gaps. I've looked at all options; casement windows, UpVC sash but decided to go with hardwood double glazing sash replacement as that's the only option which does not require ripping out the existing wooden fixtures. I don't live in a conservation area but I want to keep the original features.

    The quote I've been given is £730 per window in Kiln dried Mahogany double glazing including horns (like for like). The quote is irrespective of the size of the window as apparently the price is more about the labour rather than the materials. I have 22 windows, of which 3 are small .5m (w) 1m (h). Extra for locks, paint and vertical bars.

    I don't mind paying the money as long as I'm getting my money's worth. Question is, am I getting my money's worth? I don't know how to measure this as none of the site give pricing. Comparing it with other quotes I've received it not exactly the same as everyone uses different materials and they all feel their material is better suited.

    I've read that oak is the best and having sound proofing windows is advisable. But is this worth it, the windows don't face the main road however I does retain heat better than double glazing.

    If anyone has experience this, what would you advise? Should I be looking for companies who use oak? Would spending extra £90 on sound proofing be worth while? Are the prices realistic bearing in mind I live in Cardiff.

    thank you in advance.
    Originally posted by alladin
    I would say this sounds very reasonable: typical London prices are £1,500 per window. We just got ours done by a Manchester firm and paid £1,000 per window and felt like we got a good deal, having got 3-4 quotes from London firms.

    Must say we're delighted with them - best money we've spent on the flat.

    We went for acoustic laminate on the outer pane (was only £30 more per window), and while it's impossible to tell how much is down to that and how much down to simply going from single to double glazing, the noise levels coming in have dropped dramatically - by at least 50% I'd say.

    And they just look great as our old ones were mouldy and starting to rot.
    Last edited by zoothornrollo; 12-04-2017 at 11:08 AM.
    • phoebe1989seb
    • By phoebe1989seb 12th Apr 17, 4:58 PM
    • 3,124 Posts
    • 6,401 Thanks
    phoebe1989seb
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 17, 4:58 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 17, 4:58 PM
    We paid around £10k for seven windows (all at the front) in accoya three years ago in Wiltshire. These were double-glazed sashes with acoustic glass, painted both sides.

    Whilst they looked great - have since sold that house - and we had no issues with the small local joinery company that built and fitted them - the acoustic glazing was a waste of money imho. Our period house fronted onto a rural A-road, and tbh I think secondary glazing would have done a better job of blocking road noise.
    Paid off mortgage early - mortgage-free since age 40 (2007)

    Over £40,000 mis-sold PPI reclaimed
    • Private Church
    • By Private Church 12th Apr 17, 9:35 PM
    • 444 Posts
    • 1,330 Thanks
    Private Church
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 17, 9:35 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 17, 9:35 PM
    We paid around £10k for seven windows (all at the front) in accoya three years ago in Wiltshire. These were double-glazed sashes with acoustic glass, painted both sides.
    Originally posted by phoebe1989seb
    If that was for 7 complete boxframe sash windows (Frames,sashes,weights,glazed,Painted,fitting etc) in Accoya then thats a very good price.........
    • benemm83
    • By benemm83 29th Jun 17, 3:35 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    benemm83
    • #9
    • 29th Jun 17, 3:35 PM
    • #9
    • 29th Jun 17, 3:35 PM
    I would say this sounds very reasonable: typical London prices are £1,500 per window. We just got ours done by a Manchester firm and paid £1,000 per window and felt like we got a good deal, having got 3-4 quotes from London firms.

    Must say we're delighted with them - best money we've spent on the flat.

    We went for acoustic laminate on the outer pane (was only £30 more per window), and while it's impossible to tell how much is down to that and how much down to simply going from single to double glazing, the noise levels coming in have dropped dramatically - by at least 50% I'd say.

    And they just look great as our old ones were mouldy and starting to rot.
    Originally posted by zoothornrollo
    Are you in London? That seems like a very good idea! Do you mind letting me know the name of the company and whether that price included renovation of the existing sashes too?

    Thank you
    • zoothornrollo
    • By zoothornrollo 29th Jun 17, 5:07 PM
    • 255 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    zoothornrollo
    Are you in London? That seems like a very good idea! Do you mind letting me know the name of the company and whether that price included renovation of the existing sashes too?

    Thank you
    Originally posted by benemm83
    You mean the box frames? - yes I believe they did do some work on those.
    They also fitted new sills as the old ones had started to rot.

    Joinery Workshop
    https://joineryworkshop.com/
    • benemm83
    • By benemm83 30th Jun 17, 3:19 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    benemm83
    You mean the box frames? - yes I believe they did do some work on those.
    They also fitted new sills as the old ones had started to rot.

    Joinery Workshop
    Originally posted by zoothornrollo
    Thanks - that's really very helpful. Did you call the Manchester branch and get them to visit you, or the London one?
    • zoothornrollo
    • By zoothornrollo 30th Jun 17, 4:59 PM
    • 255 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    zoothornrollo
    Thanks - that's really very helpful. Did you call the Manchester branch and get them to visit you, or the London one?
    Originally posted by benemm83
    I didn't realise they had a London branch until I looked at their website the other day - maybe they didn't at the time as this was a couple of years ago.

    Manchester is certainly head office - but to be honest their customer service up there was a bit chaotic - not terrible, just a bit disjointed and slow to get technical answers as the staff on the phone are not the craftsmen.

    Looks like they've got themselves a London base recently cos the bloke who measured up for mine was down from Manchester for two days.

    And the bloke who came to fit them was a Finchley-based contractor and he was really excellent (you should ask for him if you go ahead). Workmanship on the windows was top notch too.

    Guess I'd try the London office - let's hope they haven't started employing differential prices down south.
    • maisie cat
    • By maisie cat 29th Aug 17, 2:56 PM
    • 268 Posts
    • 302 Thanks
    maisie cat
    we paid £21k for 15 windows and bifold doors in 2007.
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