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  • FIRST POST
    • Thistle1010
    • By Thistle1010 18th Mar 17, 11:21 AM
    • 9Posts
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    Thistle1010
    ***HELP*** BW Legal FINAL NOTICE
    • #1
    • 18th Mar 17, 11:21 AM
    ***HELP*** BW Legal FINAL NOTICE 18th Mar 17 at 11:21 AM
    Hello everyone, I am new to both the forum and to handling a parking fine or Solicitor approach.


    I received a letter in the post dated 13 March 2017 (the first I have received of what seems to be a string of letters) titled, FINAL NOTICE. The letter reads as follows;


    Dear Sir


    Our Client: Excel Parking Services Ltd
    Account Number: XXXXXXXXXX
    Vehicle Registration: XXXXXXX
    Contravention Description: Parked in a restricted area of the car park.
    Contravention Location: Middlesbrough Leisure Park Middlesbrough
    Parking Charge Notice (PCN): Manual
    Date of Contravention: 18 August 2014
    Balance Due: £154.00


    Further to our letter dated 10 February 2017 ("the First Letter") where we advised you that we are instructed by our client to recover the Balance in respect of the PCN. In the First Letter we requested that you either pay the Balance in full or provide detailed grounds for disputing the PCN, by the 26 February 2017. We advised that we are yet to receive a payment and/or a response to the First Letter.


    Our client now requires full payment of the Balance within 17 days from the date of this letter, this date being, 30 March 2017, failing which our client has instructed us to commence County Court proceedings against you for recovery of the balance. For the avoidance of doubt the Balance relates to the £100.00 parking charge and the £54.00 for our client's initial legal fees, which were detailed in the car park terms and conditions.


    County Court Proceedings
    In the event our client issues County Court proceedings, and successfully obtains a County Court judgment ("CCJ"), you may likely be liable for the Balance, court fees, further solicitors' costs and statutory interest. Furthermore this will also result in a CCJ being entered against you. A CCJ may have a detrimental effect on your future creditworthiness and your employability. Our Client also reserves the right to commence enforcement proceedings against you for the recovery of the CCJ award.


    We also wish to bring to your attention the case of ParkingEye Limited v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 in which the Supreme Court held that parking charges serve a legitimate commercial interest and are neither extravagant nor unconscionable. This case eliminates the main defence that you will have should the matter go to Court and will be relied upon, by our client, in any County Court proceedings.


    You should also note that if your claim has already been processed through an Independent Appeal Service ("IAS") and an IAS has dismissed your appeal, then it is likely that a County Court will come to a similar conclusion and your defence will be unsuccessful.




    I am looking for advice on how to handle this both before the deadline of 30 March 2017 and afterwards, should a CCJ be issued.


    Here are the facts;
    • I am in possession of the original Parking Charge Notice from 2014
    • Reason for issue of Parking Charge Notice as stated on paper: Left Leisure Park
    • Parking Charge Notice states; Filmed: Yes
    • Number of Warning Signs: 1
    • The car was parked in a blue (free parking) space at the leisure park and the cinema was used on the leisure park.
    • I did not entertain the Parking Charge Notice from Excel as after doing some research at the time, the unquestionable consensus of similar/ same cases was that they could not enforce the Parking Charge Notices due to them not owning the land and not to pay.
    • I have not had any letters prior to the one received on 13 march 2017 from BW Legal
    Having studied the letter and original Parking Charge Notice, the reasons for issue stated on both documents are different (hopefully this provides some form of leverage on my behalf on the matter).


    Any advice and guidance you can provide to me on a starting point in challenging this letter and fine would be hugely appreciated. Many thanks and best regards.
    Last edited by Thistle1010; 18-03-2017 at 10:00 PM. Reason: Title Change
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Mar 17, 3:49 PM
    • 45,156 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 18th Mar 17, 3:49 PM
    • #2
    • 18th Mar 17, 3:49 PM
    I am looking for advice on how to handle this both before the deadline of 30 March 2017 and afterwards, should a CCJ be issued.
    They can't just 'issue a CCJ'. I think you mean a court claim (not a CCJ).

    Read post #2 of the NEWBIES thread.

    This is interesting:

    Having studied the letter and original Parking Charge Notice, the reasons for issue stated on both documents are different (hopefully this provides some form of leverage on my behalf on the matter).

    #1 Reason for issue of Parking Charge Notice as stated on paper: Left Leisure Park

    #2 Contravention Description: Parked in a restricted area of the car park.
    It will give you leverage to defend a claim but DO NOT tip BW Legal off at this reply to LBCC stage! Read the NEWBIES thread post #2 and search the forum for 'BW Legal Excel' to read umpteen hundred other threads.

    We help 99% of people win v BW Legal, who are hopeless with evidence.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Thistle1010
    • By Thistle1010 18th Mar 17, 6:29 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Thistle1010
    • #3
    • 18th Mar 17, 6:29 PM
    • #3
    • 18th Mar 17, 6:29 PM
    Thank you Coupon-mad for your direction. I am unfamiliar with legal proceedings on such a matter so I do apologise if I have confused terminology. What is the next stage after this FINAL NOTICE, and what should I do at this present stage of the situation? I am going to take a look at the thread you have kindly recommended. Thanks again. Any further help and advice would be greatly appreciated to both get the ball rolling and quash his matter asap. Cheers everyone!!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 18th Mar 17, 6:43 PM
    • 13,701 Posts
    • 16,807 Thanks
    Redx
    • #4
    • 18th Mar 17, 6:43 PM
    • #4
    • 18th Mar 17, 6:43 PM
    as its a solicitors LBC then you reply and refute it (rebut it)

    the words for this have been reproduced on here hundreds of times and are generally based on replies by GAN over on pepipoo forums

    so for BW LEGAL letters, you ALWAYS reply and ALWAYS rebut using phrases gleaned from similar threads like yours (there are hundreds of them over the last 15 months or so, on here and on pepipoo)

    google is your friend for what you dont understand , as is the forum search box and suitable search words too , plus the NEWBIES sticky thread near the top of this forum

    it is likely that in the future this will turn into a court claim from Northampton (an MCOL , google it)

    once a court case has finished , there is a judgment , it is failure to pay this promptly (if you lose) that leads to the CCJ, in essence it is contempt of court (not paying the judgment)

    pay promptly and there is no CCJ

    a CCJ is not the same as an MCOL, it is the result of not dealing with it and/or not dealing with the judgment (if you lose)

    win in court (like lamilad did) and you pay nothing and no CCJ either

    you wont be getting this "quashed" and it wont be "resolved as soon as possible" either , this is a war of attrition and will probably take months to resolve , so get an xmas card for B W LEGAL and one for EXCEL too, as you will be still on their xmas card list for 2017
    Last edited by Redx; 18-03-2017 at 7:10 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Mar 17, 6:50 PM
    • 12,206 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 18th Mar 17, 6:50 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Mar 17, 6:50 PM
    I did not entertain the Parking Charge Notice from Excel as after doing some research at the time, the unquestionable consensus of similar/ same cases was that they could not enforce the Parking Charge Notices due to them not owning the land and not to pay.
    Not on any respectable private parking forum in August 2014! The law (and advice) changed two years prior to this. You could have killed this off in 2014 if you hadn't followed that path.

    What have you been reading, Mumsnet?
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 18-03-2017 at 6:53 PM.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Thistle1010
    • By Thistle1010 18th Mar 17, 7:06 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Thistle1010
    • #6
    • 18th Mar 17, 7:06 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Mar 17, 7:06 PM
    @Umkomaas I think the obvious mistake was not taking advice from MSE until now..... What could I have done back then which would not have me in this situation now/ or what has changed for Excel which now gives them better grounds to pursue these ludicrous fines?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 18th Mar 17, 7:14 PM
    • 13,701 Posts
    • 16,807 Thanks
    Redx
    • #7
    • 18th Mar 17, 7:14 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Mar 17, 7:14 PM
    these are INVOICES , (speculative invoices) not fines , no private company can "fine" you , they are not judges or courts or magistrates or the council either

    Excel moved to the IPC a couple of years ago which as the NEWBIES sticky thread tells you , is a kangaroo operation and kangaroo court in the interim stages

    the information you required started on here in march 2013 , so 4 years ago , when excel were BPA members and using that info could have killed this stone dead back then , at popla (like a relative of mine did against Excel later that year - so BEFORE yours)

    there have been various changes since then , which means that excel might have a better chance in court , notably the BEAVIS case

    but EXCEL have ALWAYS had the facility to go to court over this, that has been the case since the small claims court started 44 years ago , in 1973

    proving their case to a judge has always been their problem, and always will be , changes or no changes
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Thistle1010
    • By Thistle1010 18th Mar 17, 7:39 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Thistle1010
    • #8
    • 18th Mar 17, 7:39 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Mar 17, 7:39 PM
    @Redx Thank you for this insight. I am slowly learning about this Frankensteins Monster and the powers that be, however, what I do not understand is if excel did not own the land back then in 2014 when I received the parking notice, how can they in any way shape or form stand a better chance now of enforcing and potentially winning a case, if they still do not own the land and but more to the point did not own it back then??? What possible grounds do they have to act as an enforcement company on land they have no ownership of? and as you have highlighted were a kangaroo company at the time anyway...
    • Redx
    • By Redx 18th Mar 17, 7:44 PM
    • 13,701 Posts
    • 16,807 Thanks
    Redx
    • #9
    • 18th Mar 17, 7:44 PM
    • #9
    • 18th Mar 17, 7:44 PM
    they only need to act as a contractor for the landholder, there is no requirement for EXCEL to own the land and generally speaking very few of these companies own the land , they are supposed to act on behalf of the landholder, just the same as the cleaning company that may clean the toilets or the catering company that provides the food

    so to be clear, they do not have to "own the land" at any stage , now or 3 years ago or even 10 years ago

    but they DO have to have a contract with the landholder , or one that "flows" through to them through a managing agent on behalf of the landholder , so there could be several contracts that ultimately start with the landholder and end with excel having some authority to act , which will be subject to the terms and conditions of the contract , plus another one allowing B W LEGAL to act on their behalf

    this is contract law, not parking per se , so who owns the land may not matter as long as the correct contracts are in place

    try reading the lamilad court cases and outcomes for a start , it may help your understandings
    Last edited by Redx; 18-03-2017 at 7:50 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Mar 17, 8:01 PM
    • 45,156 Posts
    • 57,827 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    @Umkomaas I think the obvious mistake was not taking advice from MSE until now..... What could I have done back then which would not have me in this situation now/ or what has changed for Excel which now gives them better grounds to pursue these ludicrous fines?
    Originally posted by connorheighton
    In 2014 you would have won at POPLA because then, they were easy to beat, POPLA was a decent service we won 99% of the time and Excel were BPA members.

    what should I do at this present stage of the situation?
    Respond to the LBCCC/Final Notice (NO SAYING WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN DRIVING) but it won't quash it. This will be resolved after court claim, with a decent defence and probably a hearing.

    Respond only as registered keeper. Nothing about the driver! In August 2014, Excel had recently changed their NTK letters to remove any 'keeper liability' wording under the POFA and they 'assume the keeper was the driver' (with no evidence).

    That is their undoing in most cases, as long as the keeper defends and doesn't assist in identifying the driver. You can read Lamilad's threads - loads of people have beat Excel at hearings but he has done so twice, despite a dirty tricks campaign against him by someone.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 18-03-2017 at 10:44 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Thistle1010
    • By Thistle1010 18th Mar 17, 8:29 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Thistle1010
    @Coupon-mad This makes for good reading and will surely assist me with my response. I am finding it hard to navigate and come across a suitable template or similar letter/email. If you have a link to a thread for one I could use/ amend it would be greatly appreciated.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 18th Mar 17, 9:18 PM
    • 464 Posts
    • 915 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Refer only to the keeper (you) and 'the driver'
    Last edited by Lamilad; 18-03-2017 at 10:49 PM.
    • Thistle1010
    • By Thistle1010 18th Mar 17, 10:02 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Thistle1010
    @Lamilad Thank you I have made the amendments as advised. I hope this is now suffice. Would you advise using any of the facts mentioned in my opening post in my email to BW Legal denying the fine?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Mar 17, 10:47 PM
    • 45,156 Posts
    • 57,827 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    IMHO it is only worthwhile mentioning this fact - but why is that, are they going to an old address?
    I have not had any letters prior to the one received on 13 march 2017 from BW Legal
    I repeat - DO NOT tip them off about the fact the PCN contravention doesn't match what they are saying...you do not want to give them the chance to put their house in order.

    My signature tells you how to navigate the forum and find the NEWBIES thread. Read the second post of it.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 18th Mar 17, 11:38 PM
    • 464 Posts
    • 915 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Would you advise using any of the facts mentioned in my opening post in my email to BW Legal denying the fine?
    Originally posted by connorheighton
    I would send them a short but hard hitting letter denying the claim and letting them know that if they intend to pursue you they're in for a fight.

    Normally newbies are advised to search the forum and read lots of other threads in order to put an appropriate response together [I hope in the very least you have read the 'newbies' thread]. This is important because if you end up with a court claim (and you probably will) you'll need the info from other threads to know what you're up against and how to prepare. Plus you'll need to become adept at navigating the forum, using the search function etc etc.

    However, I'm gonna spoon feed you on this occasion (I needed to be spoon fed a few times, as CM will recall). I came across a letter by Gan on pepipoo written as a 'final notice' response to BWL. I've edited it and stuck a section 10 notice on the end.

    Feel free to edit some more if you want or others may advise further, then when your ready send it to enquiries@bwlegal.co.uk putting the ref no. in the subject line.


    "Dear BW Legal


    Thank you for your letter dated ******** Ref: ***********

    I deny any debt to Excel and will robustly defend any proceedings in court.


    In your letter you refer to a previous letter dated 10th February (“the first letter”). I advise you that this has not been received. The above letter titled “Final Notice” is the only communication I have received from BW Legal in relation to this matter. I find it wholly unreasonable for you to suggest that I have not responded to a letter that I did not receive.

    Had I received the letter I would have replied explaining why your client’s request for payment is without merit. As this is the first and only letter I have received from you I send this response to you now.

    For your information, I was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question at that time; however I firmly assert that I was not the driver and in the event of legal proceedings, will make such an assertion under a Statement of Truth. Under the Protection of Freedom Act 2012, your client has chosen not to use the provisions to hold the registered keeper liable.


    You may not rely on a selective reading and misrepresentation of Elliott v Loake to presume the contrary. The case of Elliot v Loake does not create any presumption of the identity of the driver - see case reference C8DP37F1, Stockport, 31/10/2016.

    I note your attempt to mislead me regarding your £54 legal costs. As you are aware, these cannot be recovered in the Small Claims court. Please note that signage at the time did not make mention of any contractually agreed charge to this amount. I also note your misrepresentation of the consequences of an adverse judgement.
    You are in breach of Chapter 11 of the Solicitors Code of Conduct.
    I refer you specifically to Indicative Behaviours IB 11.7 and 11.8

    TAKE NOTICE: If you persist in this course of action, I will report BW Legal to the CSA and SRA.

    You should consider this a Section 10 Notice which gives you 21 days to respond or I will make a complaint to the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO). Further, if you and/or your client continue to process my data I will seek damages for distress for this continued data protection contravention. Vidal-Hall v Google [2014] EWHC 13 (QB) establishes that misuse of personal data is a tort and that damages for a breach of the DPA could include non-pecuniary damage. The case of Halliday v Creation Consumer Finance Ltd [2013] All ER (D) 199 provides authority that a reasonable sum for compensation would be £750 so you may consider yourselves and your clients on notice of my intention and the distressing effects on me, of your data mishandling.

    I trust this clarifies that the parking charge and your administration and/or debt recovery charges are none of my concern. Please refer the matter back to your client. As your client has no legal reason to pursue the registered keeper in this case I now consider this matter closed. Do not contact me again save to confirm your compliance with the section 10 notice.”

    I think frustration of contract may also be relevant in your case but as none of the others have mentioned I haven't put anything in the letter. If it is relevant it may be best saved for your court defence anyway.
    Last edited by Lamilad; 18-03-2017 at 11:45 PM.
    • Thistle1010
    • By Thistle1010 19th Mar 17, 5:29 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Thistle1010
    @Lamilad Wow, I simply cannot thank you enough for this very helpful provision. I have been doing some reading today but will absolutely clue myself up on what needs to be know for proceedings. I have sent them an email using your template as a guideline and I will keep you posted on future correspondence. I would like o take this opportunity to thank everyone involved in this post for your kind support, knowledge and guidance, as without you I would be up proverbial creek without a paddle.
    • gre24l18
    • By gre24l18 23rd Mar 17, 3:52 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    gre24l18
    Lamilad - do you think I could resend this letter too? I am in a very similar situation to thistle1010. I have never started my own thread because people just seem to jump on the band wagon to say how silly I have been for ignoring since Nov 2013 but I naively followed the advice of my friends who told me to bin them letters.
    Anyhoo...long story short they left me alone for about a year or so but the letters started coming again once i'd moved. I came on here and sought advice this led me to send the first template letter. I have received a response with numerous photographs attached but they are from two years later (Aug 2015) they also state in the letter they do not intend to rely on POFA.
    Basically they have rebuffed the letter in which I sent which we knew they would and have basically given me 14 days to pay otherwise court action.
    I want to respond with your letter as it seems very well written and also want to raise the fact that the photographs are almost 2 years after the alleged offence.
    What are your thoughts?
    • claretmad62
    • By claretmad62 23rd Mar 17, 4:40 PM
    • 110 Posts
    • 86 Thanks
    claretmad62
    You really need to be starting your own thread, the Posters on here are great and very supportive...pretty much critical friends but that's what you need. Start up your own thread and give as much detail as you can...without of course naming the driver. Coupon-Mad, Redx, Umkomaas, & Lamilad to name a few are brilliant, so start a fresh and take on board their comments....and don't worry.
    • Thistle1010
    • By Thistle1010 12th Apr 17, 4:25 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Thistle1010
    I would send them a short but hard hitting letter denying the claim and letting them know that if they intend to pursue you they're in for a fight.

    Normally newbies are advised to search the forum and read lots of other threads in order to put an appropriate response together [I hope in the very least you have read the 'newbies' thread]. This is important because if you end up with a court claim (and you probably will) you'll need the info from other threads to know what you're up against and how to prepare. Plus you'll need to become adept at navigating the forum, using the search function etc etc.

    However, I'm gonna spoon feed you on this occasion (I needed to be spoon fed a few times, as CM will recall). I came across a letter by Gan on pepipoo written as a 'final notice' response to BWL. I've edited it and stuck a section 10 notice on the end.

    Feel free to edit some more if you want or others may advise further, then when your ready send it to enquiries@bwlegal.co.uk putting the ref no. in the subject line.


    "Dear BW Legal


    Thank you for your letter dated ******** Ref: ***********

    I deny any debt to Excel and will robustly defend any proceedings in court.


    In your letter you refer to a previous letter dated 10th February (“the first letter”). I advise you that this has not been received. The above letter titled “Final Notice” is the only communication I have received from BW Legal in relation to this matter. I find it wholly unreasonable for you to suggest that I have not responded to a letter that I did not receive.

    Had I received the letter I would have replied explaining why your client’s request for payment is without merit. As this is the first and only letter I have received from you I send this response to you now.

    For your information, I was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question at that time; however I firmly assert that I was not the driver and in the event of legal proceedings, will make such an assertion under a Statement of Truth. Under the Protection of Freedom Act 2012, your client has chosen not to use the provisions to hold the registered keeper liable.


    You may not rely on a selective reading and misrepresentation of Elliott v Loake to presume the contrary. The case of Elliot v Loake does not create any presumption of the identity of the driver - see case reference C8DP37F1, Stockport, 31/10/2016.

    I note your attempt to mislead me regarding your £54 legal costs. As you are aware, these cannot be recovered in the Small Claims court. Please note that signage at the time did not make mention of any contractually agreed charge to this amount. I also note your misrepresentation of the consequences of an adverse judgement.
    You are in breach of Chapter 11 of the Solicitors Code of Conduct.
    I refer you specifically to Indicative Behaviours IB 11.7 and 11.8

    TAKE NOTICE: If you persist in this course of action, I will report BW Legal to the CSA and SRA.

    You should consider this a Section 10 Notice which gives you 21 days to respond or I will make a complaint to the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO). Further, if you and/or your client continue to process my data I will seek damages for distress for this continued data protection contravention. Vidal-Hall v Google [2014] EWHC 13 (QB) establishes that misuse of personal data is a tort and that damages for a breach of the DPA could include non-pecuniary damage. The case of Halliday v Creation Consumer Finance Ltd [2013] All ER (D) 199 provides authority that a reasonable sum for compensation would be £750 so you may consider yourselves and your clients on notice of my intention and the distressing effects on me, of your data mishandling.

    I trust this clarifies that the parking charge and your administration and/or debt recovery charges are none of my concern. Please refer the matter back to your client. As your client has no legal reason to pursue the registered keeper in this case I now consider this matter closed. Do not contact me again save to confirm your compliance with the section 10 notice.”

    I think frustration of contract may also be relevant in your case but as none of the others have mentioned I haven't put anything in the letter. If it is relevant it may be best saved for your court defence anyway.
    Originally posted by Lamilad
    IMHO it is only worthwhile mentioning this fact - but why is that, are they going to an old address?


    I repeat - DO NOT tip them off about the fact the PCN contravention doesn't match what they are saying...you do not want to give them the chance to put their house in order.

    My signature tells you how to navigate the forum and find the NEWBIES thread. Read the second post of it.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    they only need to act as a contractor for the landholder, there is no requirement for EXCEL to own the land and generally speaking very few of these companies own the land , they are supposed to act on behalf of the landholder, just the same as the cleaning company that may clean the toilets or the catering company that provides the food

    so to be clear, they do not have to "own the land" at any stage , now or 3 years ago or even 10 years ago

    but they DO have to have a contract with the landholder , or one that "flows" through to them through a managing agent on behalf of the landholder , so there could be several contracts that ultimately start with the landholder and end with excel having some authority to act , which will be subject to the terms and conditions of the contract , plus another one allowing B W LEGAL to act on their behalf

    this is contract law, not parking per se , so who owns the land may not matter as long as the correct contracts are in place

    try reading the lamilad court cases and outcomes for a start , it may help your understandings
    Originally posted by Redx



    Alrighty, I have received a response from BW Legal to my email which I sent in response to the first letter I received from them. The letter I have received dated 5 April 2017 is as follows;


    Dear Sir


    Our Client: Excel Parking Services Ltd
    Account Number: XXXXXXXXXX
    Balance: £154.00


    We write in reference to the above matter and confirm Our Client's position below.


    Excels claim is for the sum of £154.00 and is in relation to monies (and legal expenses) owed pursuant to the PCN.


    The PCN contravention (as stated on the PCN) occurred on XX XXXX 2014 at Middlesbrough Leisure Park ("the car park"), where the vehicle bearing registration number XXXX XXX parked in a restricted area of the car park.


    We enclose photographic evidence of the contravention and copy of PCN.


    We also wish to draw to your attention that you were previously allowed 28 days from the date you received the PCN to dispute the PCN and/or appeal the PCN through an independent appeal service.
    Both of these options have now expired and your recourse for dispute is through the County Court process, which could increase your liability further.


    In order to prevent further costs from being incurred we would be grateful if you would contact us within 14 days from the date of this letter to pay the Balance.


    In the event you are unable to pay the Balance in full, please contact our helpful team, on the details above, to discuss our suitable payment options.


    We look forward to hearing from you within 14 days.
    • Thistle1010
    • By Thistle1010 12th Apr 17, 4:30 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Thistle1010
    What should I do from here on in? Regarding the photographic evidence, they have only provided photos of the vehicle clearly parked within the lines, of which the parking space is a 'free parking' space and does not infringe upon emergency exit doors. The photos also do not show any evidence of driver identity nor do they show the driver leaving the leisure park, as stated as the reason for issue on the PCN (which is different to the reason stated given on behalf of the solicitor). With them seemingly having no hard evidence that an offence was committed, would it still be best practice to continue to reply to letters received?


    Your wisdom and advice would be most appreciated.
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