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  • FIRST POST
    • Mysonacc
    • By Mysonacc 18th Mar 17, 9:02 AM
    • 6Posts
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    Mysonacc
    SSE THTC Price Hike - Alternatives?
    • #1
    • 18th Mar 17, 9:02 AM
    SSE THTC Price Hike - Alternatives? 18th Mar 17 at 9:02 AM
    Hi I moved into a rented property in Scotland 2 years ago, the energy supplier is SSE and the tarriff is Total Heating Total Control. I pay £600 almost every quarter for my electricity at present and SSE have just informed me it's going up in April to 14.80p standing charge, 21.90 standard unit rate and 11.06 heating control rate.

    I only have 2 storage heaters, the rest are the smaller type that are hard wired electric radiators you switch on and off as you want. I don't use either too often as it's so expensive.

    The bulk of my bills comes from normal daily usage, cooking washing drying etc. I'm at home most of the day.

    My landlord isn't interested in spending money getting an electrician in to change things and I probably can't afford to, so am I stuck with this system as is? I'm in my fifties and don't have a large income. I'm not sure how much it would even cost to try to change the meters or the wiring.

    I just don't really know what my options are. I just know I'm getting more and more worried every time a bill comes in.
Page 1
    • AndyPK
    • By AndyPK 18th Mar 17, 9:47 AM
    • 2,110 Posts
    • 542 Thanks
    AndyPK
    • #2
    • 18th Mar 17, 9:47 AM
    • #2
    • 18th Mar 17, 9:47 AM
    FInd out how many kwh (elec meter units) you use in a year.

    Maybe you have some meter readings roughly a year apart, or look at your bills.

    Then use a comparison site to see how much you could save.
    You will then know if its the cost v benefit of making changes
    • Rubidium
    • By Rubidium 18th Mar 17, 10:38 AM
    • 647 Posts
    • 420 Thanks
    Rubidium
    • #3
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:38 AM
    • #3
    • 18th Mar 17, 10:38 AM
    I just don't really know what my options are. I just know I'm getting more and more worried every time a bill comes in.
    Originally posted by Mysonacc
    Your supplier will soon be required to release you from your two meter THTC restricted hour tariff, and switch you to any tariff of your choice e.g. E7 for your storage heaters, at no cost to you. More info Click here

    This change was due to come into force on the 1 April 2017 but suppliers have now been given until 1 September 2017 to comply with this change to their electricity supply licence, regarding restricted hour tariffs.

    At least you will be able to get SSE to change your meters and put you on E7 etc. before next winter, possibly sooner and then once this has been done you will be free to use any comparison site to get the best available deal to suit your usage.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 18th Mar 17, 3:53 PM
    • 16,604 Posts
    • 10,819 Thanks
    molerat
    • #4
    • 18th Mar 17, 3:53 PM
    • #4
    • 18th Mar 17, 3:53 PM
    Your supplier will soon be required to release you from your two meter THTC restricted hour tariff, and switch you to any tariff of your choice e.g. E7 for your storage heaters, at no cost to you. More info Click here

    This change was due to come into force on the 1 April 2017 but suppliers have now been given until 1 September 2017 to comply with this change to their electricity supply licence, regarding restricted hour tariffs.

    At least you will be able to get SSE to change your meters and put you on E7 etc. before next winter, possibly sooner and then once this has been done you will be free to use any comparison site to get the best available deal to suit your usage.
    Originally posted by Rubidium
    E7 will still not be available without changing to an E7 meter and any necessary wiring changes at cost to the customer. This order simply makes single rate tariffs available to those with a multi rate meter. It also seems not to include E7 meters in that requirement although there is some conflict in the terminology used re RMI between different paragraphs. We can expect nothing less from the CMA of course.
    Last edited by molerat; 18-03-2017 at 3:59 PM.
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    • Rubidium
    • By Rubidium 18th Mar 17, 5:17 PM
    • 647 Posts
    • 420 Thanks
    Rubidium
    • #5
    • 18th Mar 17, 5:17 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Mar 17, 5:17 PM
    E7 will still not be available without changing to an E7 meter and any necessary wiring changes at cost to the customer. This order simply makes single rate tariffs available to those with a multi rate meter. It also seems not to include E7 meters in that requirement although there is some conflict in the terminology used re RMI between different paragraphs. We can expect nothing less from the CMA of course.
    Originally posted by molerat
    If you don't understand the wording of the order, don't make assumptions about E7 being excluded, meter changes required, wiring changes necessary etc, read the explanatory notes document here

    Prohibition to require the replacement of the existing electricity meter

    30. Relevant Retail Electricity Suppliers will be prohibited from requiring Relevant
    RMI Customers to replace their existing meter (such as to Single-Rate
    Metering Infrastructure or Economy 7 Metering Infrastructure) in order to
    switch to a Relevant Tariff. Relevant Retail Electricity Suppliers will also be
    prohibited from charging any additional costs or financial charge associated
    with keeping their existing Restricted Metering Infrastructure.

    31. For the avoidance of doubt, a Relevant Retail Energy Supplier will be required
    to make the Relevant Tariffs available to the Relevant RMI Customers on their
    existing meters, at no additional cost for the customer.
    The basic problem that is being addressed here is that restricted hour tariffs are non standard across suppliers. Suppliers of these tariffs that have previously locked customers in, will no doubt make whatever changes they see fit to ensure that they conform to the new conditions added to their supply licence at no additional charge to their customers.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 18th Mar 17, 5:57 PM
    • 16,604 Posts
    • 10,819 Thanks
    molerat
    • #6
    • 18th Mar 17, 5:57 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Mar 17, 5:57 PM
    As I said there are conflicting statements, typical of anything from the CMA. Both documents clearly state, para 24 in the second link, that E7 metering is excluded from the single rate charging regime and the "relevant tariffs" are only single rate.
    Last edited by molerat; 18-03-2017 at 6:05 PM.
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    • Rubidium
    • By Rubidium 18th Mar 17, 6:21 PM
    • 647 Posts
    • 420 Thanks
    Rubidium
    • #7
    • 18th Mar 17, 6:21 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Mar 17, 6:21 PM
    As I said there are conflicting statements, typical of anything from the CMA. Both documents clearly state, para 24 in the second link, that E7 metering is excluded from the single rate charging regime and the "relevant tariffs" are only single rate.
    Originally posted by molerat
    Read para 24 again, it clearly states that only E7 meters with a third (electric heating register) are excluded.

    Common sense should tell you that E7 would not be excluded from customers on restricted hour tariffs like E10, Heatwise etc.

    24. For the avoidance of doubt, as regards the categories of metering
    infrastructure that are excluded from the obligations in Article 3, the CMA
    makes the following observations:
    (a) Economy 7 Metering Infrastructure. The definition of Economy 7
    Metering Infrastructure:
    excludes (i) meters with a third (electric heating) register, in addition
    to the ‘day/normal’ and ‘night/low’ registers (eg Economy 7 Plus
    Weathercall), and/or (ii) meters where part of the off-peak period
    occurs between 1200 and 1630 (with the remained of the off-peak
    period occurring during a night-time period) (eg TwinHeat A & B);
    and
     includes meters located in the South Scotland PES Area6 where peak
    electricity consumption is recorded during 15.5 day/normal hours and
    off peak electricity consumption is recorded during 8.5 ‘night/low’
    hours (eg White Meter No 1 in the South Scotland PES area).
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 18th Mar 17, 11:06 PM
    • 3,383 Posts
    • 1,331 Thanks
    footyguy
    • #8
    • 18th Mar 17, 11:06 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Mar 17, 11:06 PM
    Hi I moved into a rented property in Scotland 2 years ago, the energy supplier is SSE and the tarriff is Total Heating Total Control. I pay £600 almost every quarter for my electricity at present and SSE have just informed me it's going up in April to 14.80p standing charge, 21.90 standard unit rate and 11.06 heating control rate.

    I only have 2 storage heaters, the rest are the smaller type that are hard wired electric radiators you switch on and off as you want. I don't use either too often as it's so expensive.

    The bulk of my bills comes from normal daily usage, cooking washing drying etc. I'm at home most of the day.

    My landlord isn't interested in spending money getting an electrician in to change things and I probably can't afford to, so am I stuck with this system as is? I'm in my fifties and don't have a large income. I'm not sure how much it would even cost to try to change the meters or the wiring.

    I just don't really know what my options are. I just know I'm getting more and more worried every time a bill comes in.
    Originally posted by Mysonacc
    Do not attempt to switch supplier with your existing metering.

    As you rent the property, the only real option if you don't like it is to move.
    • Mysonacc
    • By Mysonacc 19th Mar 17, 8:46 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Mysonacc
    • #9
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:46 AM
    • #9
    • 19th Mar 17, 8:46 AM
    Thank you for all your replies. There seems to me to be a glimmer of hope from what was said so I will be pressing SSE to change me to E7 as soon as possible, if indeed it is possible.

    Thank you for the links, I have saved that information to refer to again.

    I'd be happy to start doing washing or cooking etc during the night if it saved me some money so I really hope I can change the meters.

    I will update if I have any joy. Thanks again.
    • Rubidium
    • By Rubidium 19th Mar 17, 8:56 AM
    • 647 Posts
    • 420 Thanks
    Rubidium
    Thank you for all your replies. There seems to me to be a glimmer of hope from what was said so I will be pressing SSE to change me to E7 as soon as possible, if indeed it is possible.

    Thank you for the links, I have saved that information to refer to again.

    I'd be happy to start doing washing or cooking etc during the night if it saved me some money so I really hope I can change the meters.

    I will update if I have any joy. Thanks again.
    Originally posted by Mysonacc
    SSE should at least be able to tell you when they will be complying with the new terms recently added to their supply licence and change you from your restricted tariff and on to E7 at no charge to you.

    footyguy will have to find another phrase to parrot at every opportunity and telling you to move is just ridiculous!
    • Mysonacc
    • By Mysonacc 21st Mar 17, 10:28 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Mysonacc
    I have spoken to SSE who tell me they will change my THTC meters to an E7 meter for free but I will still have to pay an electrician to come and rewire things inside. SSE will only deal with putting in a new meter.

    I still don't fully understand it, I'm assuming the rewire needed means there will only be one set of tails going into a new E7 meter rather than the two sets that are there just now and that's what they want an electrician to do.

    I'm not sure if it would be better to shell out for this or not. I can't really afford it but I do think I'd be cheaper on E7.
    • Rubidium
    • By Rubidium 21st Mar 17, 11:12 AM
    • 647 Posts
    • 420 Thanks
    Rubidium
    I have spoken to SSE who tell me they will change my THTC meters to an E7 meter for free but I will still have to pay an electrician to come and rewire things inside. SSE will only deal with putting in a new meter.

    I still don't fully understand it, I'm assuming the rewire needed means there will only be one set of tails going into a new E7 meter rather than the two sets that are there just now and that's what they want an electrician to do.

    I'm not sure if it would be better to shell out for this or not. I can't really afford it but I do think I'd be cheaper on E7.
    Originally posted by Mysonacc
    Thanks for the update. Did you specifically question them about the Restricted Meters Order 2016 and the change made to their licence to supply regarding this?

    The person that you spoke to may be unaware of this or it is possibly that they are not complying to this new order yet as they don't have to fully comply until September 2017 and they want to continue to rip off their customers for as long as possible.

    You currently have a separate meter for registering heating and hot water units and another meter for all other use. SSE currently control when your heating/hot water is energised and if they remove this meter, they would need to supply one E7 meter with a built-in contactor to take over control from the removed meter.

    The order states:

    Obligation to make available Relevant Tariffs
    20. The aim of Article 3 of the Order is (a) to impose an obligation on licensed electricity suppliers with 50,000 or more Domestic Customers (Relevant Retail Electricity Suppliers) to make all Relevant Tariffs (as defined below) available to each Relevant RMI Customer (also defined below); and (b) to prohibit Relevant Retail Electricity Suppliers from making the Relevant Tariffs available conditional upon such customers changing their existing meter, or incurring any costs associated with keeping their existing meter.
    and

    to allow restricted meter (RM) customers to switch to non-RM tariffs. Switching to a non-RM tariff cannot be conditional on a change of meter or the payment of additional charges;
    I would have expected MSE to investigate this change and do an article on this, just like they have with switching suppliers to save money and the mis-selling of PPI etc. etc.
    • Mysonacc
    • By Mysonacc 21st Mar 17, 12:33 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Mysonacc
    Thanks for the update. Did you specifically question them about the Restricted Meters Order 2016 and the change made to their licence to supply regarding this?
    Originally posted by Rubidium
    I did. A Supervisor went off to read it whilst I was on the phone. I was told it didn't apply to them as they already do not charge for meter swaps. It applies to other companies who do charge to swap meters.

    They say all they are responsible for is the actual meters themselves, they insist all other rewiring is not down to them.
    • Rubidium
    • By Rubidium 21st Mar 17, 1:01 PM
    • 647 Posts
    • 420 Thanks
    Rubidium
    I did. A Supervisor went off to read it whilst I was on the phone. I was told it didn't apply to them as they already do not charge for meter swaps. It applies to other companies who do charge to swap meters.

    They say all they are responsible for is the actual meters themselves, they insist all other rewiring is not down to them.
    Originally posted by Mysonacc
    As already quoted in post #5 above, your supplier is required to:

    31. For the avoidance of doubt, a Relevant Retail Energy Supplier will be required to make the Relevant Tariffs available to the Relevant RMI Customers on their existing meters, at no additional cost for the customer.
    So in order to comply to that statement, no rewiring or meter change is required, so they obviously do not understand.

    The logical thing for them to do would be to remove their non standard THTC meter and simply connect your tails to a new E7 meter with a built in contactor. This would be an industry standard setup that would allow you to freely switch to other suppliers. I don't believe that the person that you spoke to understands the implications of the recent changes to their licence to supply.

    The fact that the order states that you can request a switch to any tariff on your existing meters means that no meter change is required, however the different suppliers will need to reach agreement on how this will be done as these are non standard setups and you must not be preventing from switching due to non standard metering.

    Good luck resolving this issue.
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 21st Mar 17, 1:24 PM
    • 2,872 Posts
    • 1,652 Thanks
    matelodave
    Please keep us posted on the outcome as the info will be useful to others
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 21st Mar 17, 7:33 PM
    • 3,383 Posts
    • 1,331 Thanks
    footyguy
    I have spoken to SSE who tell me they will change my THTC meters to an E7 meter for free but I will still have to pay an electrician to come and rewire things inside. SSE will only deal with putting in a new meter.

    I still don't fully understand it, I'm assuming the rewire needed means there will only be one set of tails going into a new E7 meter rather than the two sets that are there just now and that's what they want an electrician to do.

    I'm not sure if it would be better to shell out for this or not. I can't really afford it but I do think I'd be cheaper on E7.
    Originally posted by Mysonacc
    I thought you said the property was rented???

    I refer you again to my post#8

    Good luck! (this is getting tedious now )
    • Mysonacc
    • By Mysonacc 22nd Mar 17, 8:57 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Mysonacc
    I thought you said the property was rented???

    I refer you again to my post#8

    Good luck! (this is getting tedious now )
    Originally posted by footyguy
    It is rented.

    Apologies if you feel this is tedious. I'm just trying to fully understand and deal with this situation. Please feel free to not bother with the thread anymore.
    • Mysonacc
    • By Mysonacc 22nd Mar 17, 10:47 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Mysonacc
    I have been passed from pillar to post this morning, everyone from Ofgem, the Energy Ombudsman and Citizens Advice. It's shocking how unaware people are of this document and are just giving me the standard 'talk to your supplier' advice.

    I now have another contact number for a different Ofgem team but have been unable to get through so far.

    Regardless of whether I am actually helped by this in my own personal situation or not, it's ridiculous how difficult it is to get accurate and definitive information. Especially from people who I feel should really be more informed.

    Will update again.
    • Rubidium
    • By Rubidium 24th Mar 17, 9:57 AM
    • 647 Posts
    • 420 Thanks
    Rubidium
    I have spoken to SSE who tell me they will change my THTC meters to an E7 meter for free but I will still have to pay an electrician to come and rewire things inside. SSE will only deal with putting in a new meter.
    Originally posted by Mysonacc
    This is incorrect because if they remove your THTC meter and change it for an E7 meter at no cost to you, they will connect the existing heat tails to the new meter along with the existing tails from your standard unit rate meter, which they would remove so that your new industry standard E7 metering would only have one MPAN for the new E7 controlled meter. An electrician cannot do this due to the required meter seals that are fitted when meters are fitted/exchanged.

    Each property will be different because there are various restricted hour tariff metering setups, differently implemented in the supply regions across the country. Each supplier will need to ensure that their respective solution will change the metering to be standard, so as not to prevent customers freely switching without problems if they choose to.

    The big six have obviously colluded, pleaded for more time to implement this order and now have a further six months till 1 Sept 17 to continue to charge their rip off rates, 14.80p standing charge, 21.90 standard unit rate and 11.06 heating control rate from 1 April in your case on SSE THTC.

    The customer service reps have obviously not been informed of these changes, presumably because at the moment they don't have to be as the suppliers currently do not need to comply but it is wrong that they can't answer your questions accurately and tell you when they will switch you to an industry standard E7 setup.

    Read Shedule 1

    Condition 22G – Requirements for Restricted Meters
    Obligation to make available Relevant Tariffs
    specifically 22G.2 but I believe that they will do nothing until they need to in order to comply by 1 Sept 17 as they will lose considerable income if they comply before they have to.

    It's not called Rip-Off-Britain for nothing!
    • drjunk
    • By drjunk 5th Apr 17, 1:34 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    drjunk
    Hi. I must be missing something here. If you switch to Economy 7 then yes, you are still getting cheap rate but then your heating the house during the night while everyone is in there bed. Then having to wait until midnight the following day to heat the house again. And yes. I know there called storage heaters for a reason but they aren't that good.

    That's the only good thing about thtc, is that the storage heaters get a random boost of cheap rate heat through the day which keeps the house warm.

    Why can't electricity suppliers simply take on the thtc tarriff?
    Save themselves the hassle of changing the meter.
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