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    • moneysaver12
    • By moneysaver12 18th Mar 17, 8:25 AM
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    moneysaver12
    Dispute over driveway
    • #1
    • 18th Mar 17, 8:25 AM
    Dispute over driveway 18th Mar 17 at 8:25 AM
    Hi we bought a detached house in December 2016. At the front of our house there is our drive and garden. Then in front of our house there is a drive that stops at next doors garage. Next door is in the corner. On our deeds and the plan shows it too. It says that the drive belongs to us and neighbours have access.

    A person bought the house last month to rent it. Now new tenants are moving in. We asked the letting agents to ask the ll to request thst his tenants don't park on the drive.

    We have been told that the ll thinks he owns the drive. He contacted his solicitor who said there are two different plans for his house.

    Ll is coming to see us on Monday.

    If next door park at the top of the drive it doesn't cause any problems (apart from having to see their car when we look out of living room window ) also if it got damaged we would have to pay for repairs.
    If they another car parks behind their car then it means it's a struggle to get off our drive and we wouldn't be able to get back on the drive. (We have to reverse on to our drive)

    Not sure where we stand
    Married 09/09/09
Page 5
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 18th Mar 17, 4:32 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    In the event - a lot of us find out (after the event...) that we have had solicitors/legal executives/conveyancing firms that didnt do their job properly... and we were left to sort out their mess after the event.

    It seems to be far from uncommon...
    ******************
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 18th Mar 17, 4:32 PM
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    gettingtheresometime
    Would all of this be solved if everyone just parked in their garages instead of on the drives? Isn't that what a garage is for? I wouldn't mind betting everyone involved tells their insurance companies that they park in the garages to keep premiums down.
    Originally posted by Fosterdog
    Or each household only owned 1 car.
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge
    • JP1978
    • By JP1978 18th Mar 17, 5:07 PM
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    JP1978
    Hi one of my neighbours used to be a conveyancing solictor. She offered to look at the paper work for me. She found that the drive does belong to next door, but we do have right of way on to our drive. At least it is solved now. Just wish the solictor we had, had given us right information and same with the seller who also said we owned it.

    Thankyou everyone for your help.
    Originally posted by moneysaver12
    I would speak to neighbour (or the LL) and apologise, citing that your solicitor had told you wrong and you thought that it best you be sure, so you all know where you stand.

    I would also suggest that you come to an agreement that you paint an 'imaginary line' from the right edge of your driveway across the neighbours access driveway and ask them kindly not to park on there as it limits your access / egress - I would go further to say though that if they are having a party or visitors around at xmas etc, that you may be able to assist in moving your vehicle to the left of the driveway making it easier for access / egress.

    We are a row of three houses with a shared driveway (we have the least use of it as we are adj to the road) - knowing our immediate neighbours were having 16 people at xmas lunch and we would be out that day - we made sure that one car was in our garage and the other was out the way and told the neighbours to use our driveway for any additional cars. Be reasonable and helpful to others and 99% of the time, they will be back to you
    • DaftyDuck
    • By DaftyDuck 18th Mar 17, 6:06 PM
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    DaftyDuck
    Everyone buying a house needs to remember, their solicitor is unlikely to see the property on the ground in person. He relies on the buyer to confirm the plans he provides agree with what you think you are buying. In this case, the OP appears to have believed the information the previous vendors (allowing for the builder to be the actual vendor) had provided on their paperwork.

    Did the builder in question actually state any of these details tobe true and correct?
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 18th Mar 17, 6:11 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    There are often questions that it becomes clear after the event that the solicitor could/should have asked. In this case:

    - who owns the driveway?
    - is there a ROW across the driveway?

    If a group of people on a forum can find out/get details and photos etc - then a solicitor nearby and trained/supposed to be trained legally is all the more able to look at plans and photos and ask appropriate questions.
    ******************
    • moneysaver12
    • By moneysaver12 18th Mar 17, 6:25 PM
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    moneysaver12
    Everyone buying a house needs to remember, their solicitor is unlikely to see the property on the ground in person. He relies on the buyer to confirm the plans he provides agree with what you think you are buying. In this case, the OP appears to have believed the information the previous vendors (allowing for the builder to be the actual vendor) had provided on their paperwork.

    Did the builder in question actually state any of these details tobe true and correct?
    Originally posted by DaftyDuck
    It was the people that owned the property before it was sold to the builder who filled the forms in. They had lived here for 10 years.
    They said the boiler was working fine. Which it wasn't. Left a really dirty living room carpet. Living room door was hanging off. Tap loose. Hole in one door. They were meant to make sure everything was OK before they moved out. Don't think they cared in the end. They even told us when we viewed the property that the drive was theirs.
    Married 09/09/09
    • moneysaver12
    • By moneysaver12 18th Mar 17, 6:28 PM
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    moneysaver12
    I would speak to neighbour (or the LL) and apologise, citing that your solicitor had told you wrong and you thought that it best you be sure, so you all know where you stand.

    I would also suggest that you come to an agreement that you paint an 'imaginary line' from the right edge of your driveway across the neighbours access driveway and ask them kindly not to park on there as it limits your access / egress - I would go further to say though that if they are having a party or visitors around at xmas etc, that you may be able to assist in moving your vehicle to the left of the driveway making it easier for access / egress.

    We are a row of three houses with a shared driveway (we have the least use of it as we are adj to the road) - knowing our immediate neighbours were having 16 people at xmas lunch and we would be out that day - we made sure that one car was in our garage and the other was out the way and told the neighbours to use our driveway for any additional cars. Be reasonable and helpful to others and 99% of the time, they will be back to you
    Originally posted by JP1978
    I will explain to landlord that we had been given wrong information. There is no way we can move our cars more to the left. Next door on the otherside have two cars and a van. They park one car right on the peebles. Not ideal as it makes it harder for my husband to get on our drive as we have to reverse at a angle. Bit nothing we can do as they are parked on their property.
    Married 09/09/09
    • glasgowdan
    • By glasgowdan 18th Mar 17, 6:34 PM
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    glasgowdan
    Bottom line is you knew there could be parking issues when you bought this place.

    The only reasonable thing is that the neighbour can park in front of their garage, but not a second car behind it as that would obviously block you. Unless you think you own the driveway right up to their garage door?
    • moneysaver12
    • By moneysaver12 18th Mar 17, 6:39 PM
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    moneysaver12
    Bottom line is you knew there could be parking issues when you bought this place.

    The only reasonable thing is that the neighbour can park in front of their garage, but not a second car behind it as that would obviously block you. Unless you think you own the driveway right up to their garage door?
    Originally posted by glasgowdan

    We didnt think there would be parking issues. We knew we could park on our drive. Was told we owned the other drive and could park on it. We don't park on the second drive aa it would block access. Now we find out that we don't own the drive.

    By looks of it and I might be wrong. The new neightbours have a van and a car. If that is the case . A van and car will not fit on the drive as it would then block our drive. Will know when they actually move in.
    Married 09/09/09
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 18th Mar 17, 6:58 PM
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    davidmcn
    Whatever may have been muddled up by the solicitors, who has ownership and who has right of way is kind of academic - neither of you has the right to obstruct the other. The owner can't do much with their ownership if they have to keep the driveway clear.
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 18th Mar 17, 7:50 PM
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    Norman Castle
    By looks of it and I might be wrong. The new neightbours have a van and a car. If that is the case . A van and car will not fit on the drive as it would then block our drive. Will know when they actually move in.
    Originally posted by moneysaver12
    Ask the landlord to make it clear they cannot block your access. There is parking for more than one car if they park at the front of their house.
    It would be more practical if that property didn't have a garage. This would give them usable space to park.

    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 18th Mar 17, 9:19 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Whatever may have been muddled up by the solicitors, who has ownership and who has right of way is kind of academic - neither of you has the right to obstruct the other. The owner can't do much with their ownership if they have to keep the driveway clear.
    Originally posted by davidmcn
    Very true.

    Presumably, even if they wish to ignore the fact they arent allowed to park in a way to block your ROW - logic would soon tell them that, if you drove back home in your car and were unable to drive through into your own drive, then you would just park your car immediately behind their vehicles - thus rendering them unable to get out......

    So any such (blocking) parking wouldnt be likely to happen very often before they realised...and stopped doing so.

    At least you now know what to say to LL when he comes round, ie words to effect of "Apologies for this situation having arisen. Our vendors misled us. We honestly believed it was our drive - because our vendors had 'mistakenly' told us so". Hopefully the chat will be perfectly friendly - GM's cakes come to mind. In the course of the chat - it emerges that you do have the ROW and ROWs cannot be blocked. Then hand them another slice of cake....
    ******************
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 19th Mar 17, 3:17 PM
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    Cakeguts
    OP that tree that is positioned on the corner of you lawn. Do you know why it is there? Do you also know why there is a low wall around the small garden opposite?

    Have a think about how you get to and from that garage. If you want to use the garage you either have to reverse down the drive into it or drive in forwards and reverse down the drive because there isn't anywhere to turn round. Unless you drive in forwards and reverse down the drive and turn round on your driveway?
    • moneysaver12
    • By moneysaver12 19th Mar 17, 3:36 PM
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    moneysaver12
    OP that tree that is positioned on the corner of you lawn. Do you know why it is there? Do you also know why there is a low wall around the small garden opposite?

    Have a think about how you get to and from that garage. If you want to use the garage you either have to reverse down the drive into it or drive in forwards and reverse down the drive because there isn't anywhere to turn round. Unless you drive in forwards and reverse down the drive and turn round on your driveway?
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    I don't know why the tree is there and don't know why the wall is there. I have to reverse on to the drive at a angle as my husband parks on the drive next to my car. It does make it harder having the tree there. If a car was parked next to the tree. It would make it hard for me to reverse on to my drive.
    Married 09/09/09
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 19th Mar 17, 4:13 PM
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    Cakeguts
    I don't know why the tree is there and don't know why the wall is there. I have to reverse on to the drive at a angle as my husband parks on the drive next to my car. It does make it harder having the tree there. If a car was parked next to the tree. It would make it hard for me to reverse on to my drive.
    Originally posted by moneysaver12
    The tree is there to stop people from crossing your garden at an angle and using it as a turning space for someone reversing down the drive from the garage. Previous owners of the house next door the one with the garage have found getting into the garage a problem. There is nowhere to turn round. Most people I would expect will drive up the driveway forwards towards the garage. That means that they will have to reverse down. But it would be really convenient to turn round on next doors (yours drive) but as you have noticed the turning is tight. It is less tight if you reverse over that part of the garden. So it would always be churned up.

    The little garden with the wall opposite has the soil higher than the damp proof course on their house so that originally would have probably been just gravel. But as gravel it would also be available for either parking on or driving over when turning round so now it has a wall to stop cars from going onto it. None of this affects you because you have space to get in and out. It only affects the people who have the garage because there is nowhere to turn the car round after you have come out or gone into the garage. You have to come out of the garage in the opposite direction to the one that you went in at because there is nowhere to turn round. A previous owner of your house has planted that tree there to stop people from driving over the corner of your lawn.
    Last edited by Cakeguts; 19-03-2017 at 4:19 PM.
    • moneysaver12
    • By moneysaver12 19th Mar 17, 5:41 PM
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    moneysaver12
    That makes sense cakeguts. I did wonder why there was a tree there. I think it will have been the first owners. We are the third owners.
    Married 09/09/09
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 19th Mar 17, 6:16 PM
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    teddysmum
    It's as well that you don't own most of the drive, as you can't use it, but would have been responsible for maintenance. (90% of the houses on our 1970s estate have had the drive resurfaced ; the rest need theirs doing as the surface has broken up over the years and looks unsightly.)
    • moneysaver12
    • By moneysaver12 20th Mar 17, 11:11 AM
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    moneysaver12
    Update

    Landlord who owns next door came round and spoke to my husband. Turned out his solicitor had not given him correct information. The solicitor had printed the plan off and photo copied it which led to the hatched area been missed off his plan. He said that no one is allowed to park in the hatched area. That the tenants can only park one car on the drive outside the garage.

    At least now we all know where we stand and we know we are not going to have problems parking on our drive.

    I've called solictors and requested that they look in to why we were given wrong information. Waiting for them to phone back with an appointment.
    Married 09/09/09
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 20th Mar 17, 11:14 AM
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    Davesnave
    Thanks for the update.

    So there is no dispute and it's a matter of mis-communication. Good result.
    Working subliminally.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 20th Mar 17, 12:29 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Thanks for the update.

    So there is no dispute and it's a matter of mis-communication. Good result.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    ...and you now know that if you decide to remove that tree at any point = you'd better put something else hefty there instead to stop anyone from the other house using your garden as a road turning head.
    ******************
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