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    • moneysaver12
    • By moneysaver12 18th Mar 17, 8:25 AM
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    moneysaver12
    Dispute over driveway
    • #1
    • 18th Mar 17, 8:25 AM
    Dispute over driveway 18th Mar 17 at 8:25 AM
    Hi we bought a detached house in December 2016. At the front of our house there is our drive and garden. Then in front of our house there is a drive that stops at next doors garage. Next door is in the corner. On our deeds and the plan shows it too. It says that the drive belongs to us and neighbours have access.

    A person bought the house last month to rent it. Now new tenants are moving in. We asked the letting agents to ask the ll to request thst his tenants don't park on the drive.

    We have been told that the ll thinks he owns the drive. He contacted his solicitor who said there are two different plans for his house.

    Ll is coming to see us on Monday.

    If next door park at the top of the drive it doesn't cause any problems (apart from having to see their car when we look out of living room window ) also if it got damaged we would have to pay for repairs.
    If they another car parks behind their car then it means it's a struggle to get off our drive and we wouldn't be able to get back on the drive. (We have to reverse on to our drive)

    Not sure where we stand
    Married 09/09/09
Page 4
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 18th Mar 17, 1:27 PM
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    marliepanda
    Its more likely to be a shared ownership of the drive, and even if you did own it, they would have full right of access over it, otherwise their property would be landlocked. Therefore no one could park on it.


    Nobody should be blocking anyone in. That is just common sense.


    Having their nose over your fence line in front of your living room window is a small annoyance, but otherwise, where would they park?


    As you have no need to drive past your driveway, and parking past there would block another, it would make very little sense for you to have ownership of a useless piece of drive.
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 18th Mar 17, 1:34 PM
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    Cakeguts
    Says this on the deeds for next door (when it says yellow, it is talking about the blue bit)

    (d) Not to use the yellow land except for agricultural or residential
    garden purposes or as open space or for roads and services
    (e) Not to plant trees hedges shrubs or non-boundary fences on the
    yellow land
    (f) Not to alter the original level of the surface of the yellow land
    (g) Not to cover or obscure any manhole cover or chamber or other
    access or which relates to or which lies over the sewer in the yellow
    land
    (h) Not to allow
    Originally posted by moneysaver12
    That marks the line of the sewer.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 18th Mar 17, 1:47 PM
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    teddysmum
    As the house is relatively new, the builders probably still have the original plans in the office , so may be able to clarify.


    It does seem odd that the OP's property includes the drive in front of their lawn, making them responsible for upkeep, but having very little (actually no ) use for it; just needing the part near the public road.
    Last edited by teddysmum; 18-03-2017 at 1:51 PM.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 18th Mar 17, 1:47 PM
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    Cakeguts
    The blue mark on the plan is not anything to do with a driveway it is where a sewer runs. The driveway has been moved. It originally ran down the side of the house opposite where there is now a small garden with a wall in front of it. It went over the side of the front garden of the house opposite and down the boundary of the OPs house. The furthest side wall of the garage almost lines up with the boundary of the OP's garden. I would say that at least 2/3rds of the width of the drive is on the OP's plot if not all of it.

    The problem has been caused by whoever has put a garden on the driveway down the side of the house opposite. This garden is on top of the access drive to the next door neighbour's garage.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 18th Mar 17, 2:00 PM
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    Davesnave
    Personally - I looked at that diagram and came to the conclusion that I'm blowed if I could tell just who owned the driveway from that.
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    The driveways aren't marked, but it's clear enough from the last picture posted..... and it sure beats all the speculation!
    I used to suffer with kleptomania, but now I take something for it.
    • moneysaver12
    • By moneysaver12 18th Mar 17, 2:11 PM
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    moneysaver12
    13. Not to obstruct or cause or permit to be obstructed any road path
    drive or access area which serves the Ben Bailey Land in common with
    other land

    what does this mean?
    Married 09/09/09
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 18th Mar 17, 2:50 PM
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    Davesnave
    13. Not to obstruct or cause or permit to be obstructed any road path
    drive or access area which serves the Ben Bailey Land in common with
    other land

    what does this mean?
    Originally posted by moneysaver12
    Ben Bailey is the former name of builders Avant Homes, so this looks to be a condition laid down at the time the site was under development and it may not be relevant now.
    I used to suffer with kleptomania, but now I take something for it.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 18th Mar 17, 2:52 PM
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    G_M
    Maybe I'm being slow, but I'm confused.

    1) Which Plan is for your property and which is the neghbours?
    2) what Plans are these? The developer/builder's or the Land registry?
    3) What do the respective LR Titles say?

    I really don't believe this is not straight-forward in legal terms.

    Whether you choose to enforce (or abide by) the strict legal rights/obligations, or have tea and cake and reach a common sense agreement is up to the two of you.
    • stator
    • By stator 18th Mar 17, 2:52 PM
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    stator
    The blue mark on the plan is not anything to do with a driveway it is where a sewer runs. The driveway has been moved. It originally ran down the side of the house opposite where there is now a small garden with a wall in front of it. It went over the side of the front garden of the house opposite and down the boundary of the OPs house. The furthest side wall of the garage almost lines up with the boundary of the OP's garden. I would say that at least 2/3rds of the width of the drive is on the OP's plot if not all of it.

    The problem has been caused by whoever has put a garden on the driveway down the side of the house opposite. This garden is on top of the access drive to the next door neighbour's garage.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    Nobody has moved the driveway, you are mistaking the position of the garage on the map. The garage is shown as two rectanges on the edge of the land of 76. The land immediately north of that is a brick driveway.

    The plans are very clear


    The red line is OPs boundary, blue line is 76
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 18th Mar 17, 3:00 PM
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    marliepanda
    Nobody has moved the driveway, you are mistaking the position of the garage on the map. The garage is shown as two rectanges on the edge of the land of 76. The land immediately north of that is a brick driveway.

    The plans are very clear


    The red line is OPs boundary, blue line is 76
    Originally posted by stator

    This makes far more sense. OP only needs access to the very end portion to access their drive.


    Parking opposite the window shouldn't be an issue...
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 18th Mar 17, 3:13 PM
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    teddysmum
    I've been nosy and from details shown ,found Google links to the properties. (Google Street and lettings)


    Indeed the landlord did advertise as having a private drive, but the drive mentioned is much shorter and the front gardens smaller than the plans and photographs, on here, suggest.


    Also, I can't understand why the OP needs access via the drive ,so it's odd that it wasn't originally allocated to the rear property alone and think the casual passer by would assume this was the case.


    The letting ad photos also show that the house next door appears to have parking where there would usually be a lawn, so no need to park on the driveway.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 18th Mar 17, 3:29 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Nobody has moved the driveway, you are mistaking the position of the garage on the map. The garage is shown as two rectanges on the edge of the land of 76. The land immediately north of that is a brick driveway.

    The plans are very clear


    The red line is OPs boundary, blue line is 76
    Originally posted by stator
    Put like that - it looks like that driveway belongs to neighbour and OP has the Right of Way to drive over it into their own driveway.

    If so - I'd be keeping a bit quiet in OP's position - unless they blocked my ROW by parking at a spot I needed vacant in order to be able to turn into my own drive.

    I'd be keeping even quieter if my deeds didnt show I had a ROW over neighbours drive into my drive - but I could see that that bit of land with the skip on belonged to me (ie I could put access onto that in order to get onto my own drive).

    It does look rather as if your house is what I call a "squeeze-in" - ie a house the developer has put in a spot that he knows very well doesnt really have room for another house.

    If that drive is indeed your neighbours (as it looks to be) and you dont have a ROW - then neighbour would be well within their rights to build a low wall along their "blue line" to stop you using their drive for access.
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 18-03-2017 at 3:36 PM.
    Freedom of speech - the highest value we have.
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 18th Mar 17, 3:36 PM
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    Norman Castle
    free upload image

    This is the original plan
    Originally posted by moneysaver12
    The two joined squares are the garage. The line across is the roof ridge. There is an area of driveway equal in length to the length of the garage in front of the garage. Then there is a cross hatch area of driveway. The entire driveway including the cross hatch area belongs to the neighbour but they cannot park on the cross hatch area.

    The problem is caused by your neighbour parking in front of his garage which is fine but this blocks further access to the parking outside their house so subsequent visitors have to park where they shouldn't. Across the access to your driveway.

    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 18th Mar 17, 3:51 PM
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    Fosterdog
    Would all of this be solved if everyone just parked in their garages instead of on the drives? Isn't that what a garage is for? I wouldn't mind betting everyone involved tells their insurance companies that they park in the garages to keep premiums down.
    • moneysaver12
    • By moneysaver12 18th Mar 17, 3:52 PM
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    moneysaver12
    Hi one of my neighbours used to be a conveyancing solictor. She offered to look at the paper work for me. She found that the drive does belong to next door, but we do have right of way on to our drive. At least it is solved now. Just wish the solictor we had, had given us right information and same with the seller who also said we owned it.

    Thankyou everyone for your help.
    Married 09/09/09
    • moneysaver12
    • By moneysaver12 18th Mar 17, 3:54 PM
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    moneysaver12
    Put like that - it looks like that driveway belongs to neighbour and OP has the Right of Way to drive over it into their own driveway.

    If so - I'd be keeping a bit quiet in OP's position - unless they blocked my ROW by parking at a spot I needed vacant in order to be able to turn into my own drive.

    I'd be keeping even quieter if my deeds didnt show I had a ROW over neighbours drive into my drive - but I could see that that bit of land with the skip on belonged to me (ie I could put access onto that in order to get onto my own drive).

    It does look rather as if your house is what I call a "squeeze-in" - ie a house the developer has put in a spot that he knows very well doesnt really have room for another house.

    If that drive is indeed your neighbours (as it looks to be) and you dont have a ROW - then neighbour would be well within their rights to build a low wall along their "blue line" to stop you using their drive for access.
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention

    The bit where the skip is belongs to next door, our boundary ends where the pebbles are, so we couldn't put any access their. Also next door neighbour park their car on the pebbles too, which makes it awkard when my husband tries to park on our drive.

    We have found that we do have right of way and it does belong to our neighbour.
    Last edited by moneysaver12; 18-03-2017 at 3:58 PM.
    Married 09/09/09
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 18th Mar 17, 3:59 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    One can see just why your vendor was "economical with the truth" with you then - from those photos.

    Fingers crossed he genuinely did believe the drive didnt belong to next door (ie inefficiency on his part) - rather than knowing very well it did (ie going in for "terminological inexactitudes"....).
    Freedom of speech - the highest value we have.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 18th Mar 17, 4:01 PM
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    Cakeguts
    That still doesn't explain what that strange building marked on the plan between the house and the garage is? I thought it was the garage.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 18th Mar 17, 4:06 PM
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    Red-Squirrel
    Would all of this be solved if everyone just parked in their garages instead of on the drives? Isn't that what a garage is for? I wouldn't mind betting everyone involved tells their insurance companies that they park in the garages to keep premiums down.
    Originally posted by Fosterdog
    I don't think most new build garages have been big enough to put actual cars in them for about 40 years!
    • moneysaver12
    • By moneysaver12 18th Mar 17, 4:09 PM
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    moneysaver12
    One can see just why your vendor was "economical with the truth" with you then - from those photos.

    Fingers crossed he genuinely did believe the drive didnt belong to next door (ie inefficiency on his part) - rather than knowing very well it did (ie going in for "terminological inexactitudes"....).
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention

    I think the sellers knew what they were doing. (same with the boiler that they said was working prefectly fine, apart from it wasn't working properly and must have been playing up for a while) The sellers did a part exchange so they sold it to a builder who then sold it to us on the same day. The neighbour said that next door to us had always parked cars on the drive, so she couldn't see us owing it. I would have thought the solictor would have gotten the information right.
    Married 09/09/09
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