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  • FIRST POST
    • breaking_free
    • By breaking_free 17th Mar 17, 6:11 PM
    • 283Posts
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    breaking_free
    Uneven floor tiling job - not yet paid
    • #1
    • 17th Mar 17, 6:11 PM
    Uneven floor tiling job - not yet paid 17th Mar 17 at 6:11 PM
    I have a local company fitting my kitchen at the moment. I've used this company before to knock through a wall and was happy with their work, hence why I've got them back. The single kitchen fitter they've supplied and the electrician are sterling blokes and I have no complaints about them at all.

    However, their boss has laid the floor tiles today and I've come home from work and seen his efforts. I'm not impressed. The tiles are visibly uneven in multiple places by a millimeter or two. I put a level on the floor to check his handiwork and the tiles are not even close to flat. To be fair, looking down on them from a standing viewpoint they look okay, but if you eyeball them when lying on the floor they are not - this represents a potential trip hazard so the problem is more than cosmetic.

    I prepped the floor myself with self-leveling compound and reckon I did a good job of getting it flat. When I tell this guy that I'm not happy with the uneven tiles he may well say 'Well I didn't prep the floor to make it flat so if it's uneven that's your fault'. But I would expect any professional tiler to put a level on the floor like I did and check the flatness himself before starting work, no?

    I'm uncertain what to say to this guy. Once the grouting's done it will smooth out the unevenness to some extent, but the floor is simply not flat. I don't want him to rip it up and start again; I don't believe it can be flattened out either. I guess I'll have to settle for an apology and something knocked off the price, but how do I say this?

    All advice gratefully received.
    "The problem with internet quotes is that you cant always depend on their accuracy" -Abraham Lincoln, 1864
Page 1
    • FreeBear
    • By FreeBear 17th Mar 17, 11:58 PM
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    FreeBear
    • #2
    • 17th Mar 17, 11:58 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Mar 17, 11:58 PM
    Once the grouting's done it will smooth out the unevenness to some extent, but the floor is simply not flat. I don't want him to rip it up and start again
    Originally posted by breaking_free
    The grout will not improve matters in the slightest. If the edges of the tiles are raised, they will still look a mess. There are several floor tile leveling systems on the market, and in the hands of a DIYer, can produce a pretty flat floor. In the hands of an experienced expert, the floor would be perfect.

    Even after a discount, every time you look at, or catch your toe on the floor, you'll think "bodge job" and think about having it redone - If you are quick, the tiles should come up with minimal damage. But if you wait for the adhesive to harden, it will be next to impossible.
    Her courage will change the world.

    Treasure the moments that you have. Savour them for as long as you can for they will never come back again.
    • breaking_free
    • By breaking_free 18th Mar 17, 4:52 AM
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    breaking_free
    • #3
    • 18th Mar 17, 4:52 AM
    • #3
    • 18th Mar 17, 4:52 AM
    Thanks FreeBear.

    He hasn't even used spacers except towards the edges of the wall. I need some advice on what to say to this guy. Any ideas?
    "The problem with internet quotes is that you cant always depend on their accuracy" -Abraham Lincoln, 1864
    • andyhop
    • By andyhop 18th Mar 17, 7:47 AM
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    andyhop
    • #4
    • 18th Mar 17, 7:47 AM
    • #4
    • 18th Mar 17, 7:47 AM
    Floor adhesive is generally rapid set flexi. Cures in 3hrs. You will have zero chance of lifting without breaking every tile

    Just because you've poured self leveller does not mean it's flat and level. This is not a job for the part time DIYer. Large tiles , brick bonded need to be 110% otherwise you will get lippage

    You need to put up a few images and the pros on here will give you good advice
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure
    • breaking_free
    • By breaking_free 18th Mar 17, 8:07 AM
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    breaking_free
    • #5
    • 18th Mar 17, 8:07 AM
    • #5
    • 18th Mar 17, 8:07 AM
    Tile on top right is higher than the others (there are some much worse examples but the light is too poor to get a good shot).



    Here's an example of not using a spacer on the bottom right tile. Nice blob of adhesive decorating one of the others too! He's only used spacers for the tiles at the edges of the floor. There are no spacers at all used in the rest of the floor.



    I agree that I might not have gotten the floor 100% level but it looked good to me and he said nowt about it. Surely any tiler checks the level of the floor before starting? If it's way out I'd expect him to level it and charge me for it. Alternatively, if it's only a bit out he could adjust the depth of the adhesive as he places each tile.

    I did my own tiling for my bathroom walls but decided to pay a professional to do my kitchen floor; I did this specifically because I was worried I wouldn't get the tiles perfectly flat (not so noticeable on a wall, but very noticeable on a floor when you trip over it!)
    Last edited by breaking_free; 18-03-2017 at 8:15 AM.
    "The problem with internet quotes is that you cant always depend on their accuracy" -Abraham Lincoln, 1864
    • Annie1960
    • By Annie1960 18th Mar 17, 8:31 AM
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    Annie1960
    • #6
    • 18th Mar 17, 8:31 AM
    • #6
    • 18th Mar 17, 8:31 AM
    You ask what you should say to the tiler.

    Google 'Consumer Rights Act 2015' and this will tell you services need to be delivered with reasonable care and skill. The photos show that they are not laid with skill.

    If you want someone who can talk you through what to do, you could ring the Citizens' Advice consumer line.

    Basically, you can ask him for 'repeat performance' of the service (take the tiles up and start again), or a discount off the price.

    A dispute may arise if he claims the problem is due to the preparation work you did, and he may even say that he warned you the end result may not be level.

    However, you are in a strong position as you have not yet paid.
    Last edited by Annie1960; 18-03-2017 at 8:33 AM.
    • firefox1956
    • By firefox1956 18th Mar 17, 8:51 AM
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    firefox1956
    • #7
    • 18th Mar 17, 8:51 AM
    • #7
    • 18th Mar 17, 8:51 AM
    The bloke that laid those tiles is not a tiler.......he is a bodger.
    That job would annoy the h*ll out of me for years to come.
    • Mr.Generous
    • By Mr.Generous 18th Mar 17, 8:51 AM
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    Mr.Generous
    • #8
    • 18th Mar 17, 8:51 AM
    • #8
    • 18th Mar 17, 8:51 AM
    Picture paints 1000 words, from the description I wasn't sure if you were just being picky. That's not good enough for any professional job sorry. Needs re-doing.
    • missile
    • By missile 18th Mar 17, 9:59 AM
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    missile
    • #9
    • 18th Mar 17, 9:59 AM
    • #9
    • 18th Mar 17, 9:59 AM
    That is shockingly bad workmanship. A ham fisted DIYer could do better. Tell him that is not satisfactory and you want the floor replaced at his cost. Do not pay him until job is completed to your satisfaction.

    If he refuses get a proper tiler to redo and deduct cost from his invoice.

    You really should not have done levelling yourself. Preparation is vital to good finish. However, if tradesman should have checked your workmanship before he started.
    "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
    Ride hard or stay home
    • breaking_free
    • By breaking_free 18th Mar 17, 10:49 AM
    • 283 Posts
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    breaking_free
    Thanks for all your replies. I'm not at all pleased with the result: your opinions back up mine.

    I'm going to see about contacting another tiler to put things right as I don't have confidence that the original tiler would do a better job the second time around.
    "The problem with internet quotes is that you cant always depend on their accuracy" -Abraham Lincoln, 1864
    • missile
    • By missile 18th Mar 17, 11:50 AM
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    missile
    You will have to give the bodger an opportunity to repair or pay him for his work.
    "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
    Ride hard or stay home
    • Annie1960
    • By Annie1960 18th Mar 17, 2:28 PM
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    Annie1960
    You will have to give the bodger an opportunity to repair or pay him for his work.
    Originally posted by missile

    Correct. The Consumer Rights Act is clear that you have to give him an opportunity for 'repeat performance' to fix the tiles.
    • breaking_free
    • By breaking_free 18th Mar 17, 5:19 PM
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    breaking_free
    Fair enough, I'll give him a chance to fix it. In fact I did get another tiler round this afternoon and he said the same thing - allow the first guy the opportunity to rectify and if he can't/won't this other chap will do it for me.

    I am in a strong position as I'm paying this company to install the whole kitchen plus electrics - that's a few ££ of work and I won't pay the full bill until this is sorted. Still, I'm baffled how a 'professional' can do such a shoddy job and think it is acceptable. The kitchen fitter and sparky are great, it's just the boss that's a bodger!
    "The problem with internet quotes is that you cant always depend on their accuracy" -Abraham Lincoln, 1864
    • missile
    • By missile 18th Mar 17, 9:19 PM
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    missile
    Don't pay ANY money, until you reach agreement re the bodged tiles.

    You may think you are in a strong position, but what will you do if he downs tools and walks off the job?
    "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
    Ride hard or stay home
    • mpet
    • By mpet 18th Mar 17, 9:42 PM
    • 367 Posts
    • 202 Thanks
    mpet
    Even if your levelling was not up to a professional standard, I would expect a good tiler to spot this and advise that it needed correcting before tiles were laid. In my opinion it would not be an acceptable excuse to say the tiles are uneven because the floor isn't level. I would be furious if I had employed a 'professional' and got such a bodge job - as others have said this guy is no tiler.
    • Marktheshark
    • By Marktheshark 18th Mar 17, 9:48 PM
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    Marktheshark
    How big are the tiles ?
    Brexit will become whatever they invent it to be.
    • breaking_free
    • By breaking_free 19th Mar 17, 8:28 AM
    • 283 Posts
    • 538 Thanks
    breaking_free
    Marktheshark they're 30 by 30 cm.

    Missile, if he walks off the job I'll get the tiler I consulted afterwards to fix it up and take this off the final bill.

    And while we're on the subject (and I just KNOW you're all going to think "fool"!) I haven't been given a price for the total job yet. I used this company before to knock through a wall, which is why I was confident about using them again.

    I repeatedly asked for a quote in the months before they started (been asking since January) and now we're a week in: I still haven't been given a price except a verbal "around £2000" (for the kitchen fitting only). How I'm going to approach this is to insist the boss gives me a full quote ASAP and only then tell him I want him to refit those tiles. This is to cover my !!! in case he decides to mentally add on an extra few £ to take up and replace the tiles. If I don't know what the end price is I won't know if he's added anything on...

    Grrr! So cheesed off that he hasn't given me a quote when I've been asking since January. How would you handle this?
    "The problem with internet quotes is that you cant always depend on their accuracy" -Abraham Lincoln, 1864
    • Auntie-Dolly
    • By Auntie-Dolly 19th Mar 17, 10:37 AM
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    Auntie-Dolly
    I wouldn't have started the work, but that isn't going to help you now.
    • boliston
    • By boliston 19th Mar 17, 10:53 AM
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    boliston
    I wondering if it might be an idea to confirm the pricing before querying the tile problems as otherwise he might inflate the price out of spite.
    • FreeBear
    • By FreeBear 19th Mar 17, 11:01 AM
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    FreeBear
    Pay the fitter & electrician separately and then tell the 'bodger' to sling his hook ?

    Would be interesting to see what the kitchen fitter has to say about the tiling work - If he returns, ask him and get the response recorded.
    Her courage will change the world.

    Treasure the moments that you have. Savour them for as long as you can for they will never come back again.
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