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  • FIRST POST
    • Ecb68
    • By Ecb68 17th Mar 17, 10:55 AM
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    Ecb68
    Can council demand bank details
    • #1
    • 17th Mar 17, 10:55 AM
    Can council demand bank details 17th Mar 17 at 10:55 AM
    My mother passed away recently and left debt to her local council ( England) along with other debts, she left no will or estate there is no power of attorney and she had no large sums of money or property and we were told that it did not warrant probate. Her bank account was closed and we were given a form showing the balances when closed. This form has proven sufficient to all her debtors but the council want bank statements which we do not have, can the council legally demand these or is the final balance all we need to show by law?
Page 1
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 17th Mar 17, 11:09 AM
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    getmore4less
    • #2
    • 17th Mar 17, 11:09 AM
    • #2
    • 17th Mar 17, 11:09 AM
    Are you making a distribution from the account balances?
    • Ecb68
    • By Ecb68 17th Mar 17, 11:28 AM
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    Ecb68
    • #3
    • 17th Mar 17, 11:28 AM
    • #3
    • 17th Mar 17, 11:28 AM
    No money to distribute, all her debtors have accepted final balance statement the council have not they want bank statements is this common or legal
    • Ecb68
    • By Ecb68 17th Mar 17, 11:30 AM
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    Ecb68
    • #4
    • 17th Mar 17, 11:30 AM
    • #4
    • 17th Mar 17, 11:30 AM
    The other debtors have accepted the final balance statement but council have not the want to see bank statements , is this common practice or legal to do?
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 17th Mar 17, 11:31 AM
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    Voyager2002
    • #5
    • 17th Mar 17, 11:31 AM
    • #5
    • 17th Mar 17, 11:31 AM
    Well, if you don't have them then you can't hand them over to the Council.
    • Ecb68
    • By Ecb68 17th Mar 17, 11:34 AM
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    Ecb68
    • #6
    • 17th Mar 17, 11:34 AM
    • #6
    • 17th Mar 17, 11:34 AM
    That's what I thought but the council say the bank should oblige by producing copies for us! The bank will charge for this maybe it's just the council process I guess they want to check that there wasn't previously enough money to pay back debt?
    • TW1234
    • By TW1234 17th Mar 17, 11:58 AM
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    TW1234
    • #7
    • 17th Mar 17, 11:58 AM
    • #7
    • 17th Mar 17, 11:58 AM
    Purely from interest and not casting any doubts at this sad time, I do not know whether the council could require these statements, but could somebody explain how the situation of a deceased making a substantial payment from their assets shortly before death could be recognised and investigated when probate was not needed?
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 17th Mar 17, 12:38 PM
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    getmore4less
    • #8
    • 17th Mar 17, 12:38 PM
    • #8
    • 17th Mar 17, 12:38 PM
    Creditors are in the order(near/at the bottom)of parties that can administer estates so if they want they can get the legal authority to make the inquiries necessary to establish if there were any assets that claim could be made against, then proceed to court to recover the assets.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 17th Mar 17, 12:39 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #9
    • 17th Mar 17, 12:39 PM
    • #9
    • 17th Mar 17, 12:39 PM
    That's what I thought but the council say the bank should oblige by producing copies for us! The bank will charge for this maybe it's just the council process I guess they want to check that there wasn't previously enough money to pay back debt?
    Originally posted by Ecb68
    Because you have adminstered the estate and not checked for debts and may have not distributed the estate according to the rules you MAY be legal liable for the debts. However unless the Council sue you there is no requirement to provide copies of bank statements at this stage. Did you pay any debts or were they all written off becuase there were no funds?
    • Ecb68
    • By Ecb68 17th Mar 17, 12:43 PM
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    Ecb68
    I'm not sure I understand all the legal jargon I realise council obviously would want to get back anything owed to them but as there is no money , estate , will or other asset or no probate what is their procedure can a deseased persons debt by passed on to family then? I assume they have the right to see if there was funds in before/after death and it hasn't been withdrawn.
    • Ecb68
    • By Ecb68 17th Mar 17, 12:47 PM
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    Ecb68
    The little funds in account were used to pay towards the funeral that's it. Dwp were also owed but have accepted the final balance sheet we sent them . Naively we were told as there was less than £200 to close account and use money towards funeral so we did!
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 17th Mar 17, 2:04 PM
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    getmore4less
    I would take the stance the estate was insolvent after funeral debts.

    There is no administrator for them to contact or deal with therefore if they wish to investigate the accounts prior to death they need to do so as a creditor of the estate.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 17th Mar 17, 2:20 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    The little funds in account were used to pay towards the funeral that's it. Dwp were also owed but have accepted the final balance sheet we sent them . Naively we were told as there was less than £200 to close account and use money towards funeral so we did!
    Originally posted by Ecb68
    In which case you are in the clear. The council will get nothing. Just write and explain the circumsatnces. If they still insist tell them they will have to pay the bank for the copies..
    Last edited by Yorkshireman99; 17-03-2017 at 6:30 PM.
    • FreeBear
    • By FreeBear 17th Mar 17, 11:47 PM
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    FreeBear
    There is no administrator for them to contact or deal with therefore if they wish to investigate the accounts prior to death they need to do so as a creditor of the estate.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    The council already have the powers to access the account information (via their fraud investigation unit), so if they won't accept the information that has already been provided, they can get it themselves.

    That said, I would be very surprised if the bank released statements to the OP without the appropriate LoA - To do so would be in breach of client confidentiality and the Data Protection Act (in my opinion).... Thinking about it, I'd be inclined to tell the council that the DPA prevents the OP from getting the statements from the bank.
    Her courage will change the world.

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    • Dr Crypto
    • By Dr Crypto 19th Mar 17, 3:26 PM
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    Dr Crypto
    The DPA doesn't apply to the dead.
    • securityguy
    • By securityguy 19th Mar 17, 4:02 PM
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    securityguy
    "The DPA doesn't apply to the dead."

    But common-law duties of confidentiality usually do.
    • 74jax
    • By 74jax 19th Mar 17, 5:19 PM
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    74jax
    If the account only had £200 did the local authority pay for the funeral? Would they not already have evidence in which case of no funds or anything to sell to pay off debts.

    Did they live in council funded accommodation so you can prove they had nothing of worth to sell?
    Forty and fabulous, well that's what my cards say....
    • Linton
    • By Linton 19th Mar 17, 5:54 PM
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    Linton
    What is the problem with giving the council the bank statement if the bank will print you off one? Didnt they send you a closing statement when the bank account was closed? There was no charge when I had one printed.

    Being awkward may give them reason to believe there was something to hide.
    • Ecb68
    • By Ecb68 19th Mar 17, 6:08 PM
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    Ecb68
    No problem but they gave me a final balance not statement they want to charge for it I don't have the money
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 19th Mar 17, 6:51 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    No problem but they gave me a final balance not statement they want to charge for it I don't have the money
    Originally posted by Ecb68
    HAve you written to the council explaining the details? Phoning is no good.
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