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    • Cofty
    • By Cofty 17th Mar 17, 9:46 AM
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    Cofty
    Opinion on affect of living next to a pub / main road?
    • #1
    • 17th Mar 17, 9:46 AM
    Opinion on affect of living next to a pub / main road? 17th Mar 17 at 9:46 AM
    Hi all

    I was wondering if anyone can help me with some advice I am looking for: where can I find expert opinion on the affect living adjacent to a pub can have on a house value? (or is anyone willing to be that expert opinion?)

    I am preparing a case for a Valuation Tribunal and need to find expert opinion to include within the case:
    - The VOA have referenced the average house price for our street in 1993. However, our house is adjacent to a noisy pub so any expert opinion I can receive / find on the extent this can reduce a house price would be very useful so I can show the distance we may have been below that average in 1993.
    - We also live 2 metres from a main road, whereas all other houses are set much further back. Any expert opinion on the extent (%) living on a main road can bring down a house price would also be very gratefully received.

    I will build this expert opinion into my case, along with other points we shall be addressing. It would be a massive help, particularly in taking on one of the VOA's major reasons for declining the original appeal.

    Any help gratefully received

    Thanks
Page 1
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 17th Mar 17, 1:43 PM
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    lincroft1710
    • #2
    • 17th Mar 17, 1:43 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Mar 17, 1:43 PM
    The only expert opinion you would get would be from a surveyor or estate agent. You would need them to either put this in writing and/or appear at the tribunal hearing, both of which would cost you. Bear in mind opinion is opinion, unless the expert produces evidence to prove their claim, it may not carry much weight.

    Trying to find a percentage difference for living a few metres nearer a main road would be nigh on impossible.

    CT bands are based 1991 values, not 1993. Have you established whereabouts in the band, the value of your house lies.
    • JimmyTheWig
    • By JimmyTheWig 17th Mar 17, 2:34 PM
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    JimmyTheWig
    • #3
    • 17th Mar 17, 2:34 PM
    • #3
    • 17th Mar 17, 2:34 PM
    Can you tell from the selling price of your house and others further away from the pub and road?
    • Cofty
    • By Cofty 17th Mar 17, 2:46 PM
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    Cofty
    • #4
    • 17th Mar 17, 2:46 PM
    • #4
    • 17th Mar 17, 2:46 PM
    Hi Lincroft1710

    I absolutely agree regarding who to source that expert opinion from. I was wondering if anyone in this forum could help with that - for example, any articles on the matter (I already have references from expert opinion in a Times and a Daily Mail article from leading estate agents - I need more to help contribute to my case), and estate agents or surveyors who are members of this forum who could provide me with their opinion that I could reference, etc.

    Opinion would definitely help. Alone it wouldn't be enough, but with other evidence I am building it adds to a credible picture and argument, but getting this expert opinion is an important part of my case. Don't forget, VOA is likely to have conducted a basic / minimal investigation to come to their conclusion, so my aim is completely over-shadow that with refuting evidence from multiple angles.

    I'm aware of CT bands being up until 1991, but part of the VOA's argument was to reference the sale price of similarly charaterised properties on the street in that year (I guess because they couldn't find, or didn't have the time to find, examples from 1991 and before). So part of my case will be to example apples with apples.

    We'll all Davids and we all love to take on the Goliaths...
    • Cofty
    • By Cofty 17th Mar 17, 2:49 PM
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    Cofty
    • #5
    • 17th Mar 17, 2:49 PM
    • #5
    • 17th Mar 17, 2:49 PM
    Hi JimmyTheWig.
    No I can't at the moment - that's something I am currently looking into and all notable differences will be brought into my case. I'm already aware of a few similar properties in lower bands, and some of differing values in differing bands, but need to put that all together coherently. Knowing what difference being next to the pub and close to the main road (which the other properties are not), can help build a positive case for me when comparing with those other houses.
    • vivatifosi
    • By vivatifosi 17th Mar 17, 6:52 PM
    • 16,661 Posts
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    vivatifosi
    • #6
    • 17th Mar 17, 6:52 PM
    • #6
    • 17th Mar 17, 6:52 PM
    If you are looking for 1991 prices, it may be worth asking if there is a newspaper archive at your local library. That's where I got my info from. It may be on microfilm.
    Please stay safe in the sun and learn the A-E of melanoma: A = asymmetry, B = irregular borders, C= different colours, D= diameter, larger than 6mm, E = evolving, is your mole changing? Most moles are not cancerous, any doubts, please check next time you visit your GP.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 17th Mar 17, 8:27 PM
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    lincroft1710
    • #7
    • 17th Mar 17, 8:27 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Mar 17, 8:27 PM
    Hi Lincroft1710

    I absolutely agree regarding who to source that expert opinion from. I was wondering if anyone in this forum could help with that - for example, any articles on the matter (I already have references from expert opinion in a Times and a Daily Mail article from leading estate agents - I need more to help contribute to my case), and estate agents or surveyors who are members of this forum who could provide me with their opinion that I could reference, etc.

    Opinion would definitely help. Alone it wouldn't be enough, but with other evidence I am building it adds to a credible picture and argument, but getting this expert opinion is an important part of my case. Don't forget, VOA is likely to have conducted a basic / minimal investigation to come to their conclusion, so my aim is completely over-shadow that with refuting evidence from multiple angles.

    I'm aware of CT bands being up until 1991, but part of the VOA's argument was to reference the sale price of similarly charaterised properties on the street in that year (I guess because they couldn't find, or didn't have the time to find, examples from 1991 and before). So part of my case will be to example apples with apples.

    We'll all Davids and we all love to take on the Goliaths...
    Originally posted by Cofty
    I'm not a David, I'm a Goliath! Well I was, I'm ex VOA.

    Press articles carry very little weight at VT, especially as any "facts" cannot be verified. It is quite easy to rubbish and pick holes in press articles, I've done it myself at VT.

    You haven't stated what band you're in, and as I said in my previous post, it will depend whereabouts in the band whether a reduction would be likely. If your home is in Band C and 1991 value is £65K then pub has got to devalue it by 20% to make a difference.

    Being next to a pub will probably have a lower percentage effect on a lower price dwelling, than on a 4 bed detached. If you have a record of disturbances, noise levels etc, these will help your case much more than unverifiable opinion and press articles.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 17th Mar 17, 10:23 PM
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    Moneyineptitude
    • #8
    • 17th Mar 17, 10:23 PM
    • #8
    • 17th Mar 17, 10:23 PM
    I need more to help contribute to my case), and estate agents or surveyors who are members of this forum who could provide me with their opinion that I could reference, etc
    Originally posted by Cofty
    Referencing "expert" opinion from an internet forum whose users are anonymous will provide no help to your case whatsoever, I'm afraid.
    • vivatifosi
    • By vivatifosi 18th Mar 17, 6:09 AM
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    vivatifosi
    • #9
    • 18th Mar 17, 6:09 AM
    • #9
    • 18th Mar 17, 6:09 AM
    I won my case using newspaper clippings linford. The tribunal said that I had lots of relevant comparables and accepted that houses were not going above the asking price. The real clincher though was that the garages were not in the curtilage. That and the pricing evidence combined. Apologies fir the deviation cofty.
    Please stay safe in the sun and learn the A-E of melanoma: A = asymmetry, B = irregular borders, C= different colours, D= diameter, larger than 6mm, E = evolving, is your mole changing? Most moles are not cancerous, any doubts, please check next time you visit your GP.
    • vivatifosi
    • By vivatifosi 18th Mar 17, 6:16 AM
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    vivatifosi
    Referencing "expert" opinion from an internet forum whose users are anonymous will provide no help to your case whatsoever, I'm afraid.
    Originally posted by Moneyineptitude
    Seriously? Look back through the years of posts on here and you'll see that linford has loads of testimonials for helping people. Just as CIS knows all about getting help with local govt aspects of council tax.

    There are plenty of people who give up their time to help people in the area that they work on, be it choosing a heating system, buying a,cruise, dealing with council tax or something else. It's one of the things that make these fora so important in helping people.
    Please stay safe in the sun and learn the A-E of melanoma: A = asymmetry, B = irregular borders, C= different colours, D= diameter, larger than 6mm, E = evolving, is your mole changing? Most moles are not cancerous, any doubts, please check next time you visit your GP.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 18th Mar 17, 9:23 AM
    • 18,152 Posts
    • 8,461 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    Seriously? Look back through the years of posts on here and you'll see that linford has loads of testimonials for helping people. Just as CIS knows all about getting help with local govt aspects of council tax.
    Originally posted by vivatifosi
    Did you read the post I was responding to? The OP wants to take information posted here into a Valuation Tribunal. Of course the posters here are helpful, but they can't be expected to provide additional written expert opinion or actually appear!
    That was my only point.

    You say you won your case based on newspaper clippings, but I sincerely doubt a screen shot of a discussion forum would carry any weight..
    • vivatifosi
    • By vivatifosi 18th Mar 17, 10:00 PM
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    vivatifosi
    Did you read the post I was responding to? The OP wants to take information posted here into a Valuation Tribunal. Of course the posters here are helpful, but they can't be expected to provide additional written expert opinion or actually appear!
    That was my only point.

    You say you won your case based on newspaper clippings, but I sincerely doubt a screen shot of a discussion forum would carry any weight..
    Originally posted by Moneyineptitude
    I did read the OP, but read your post as though you were getting at lincroft. If you weren't, then I apologise.

    I do think there is more to this forum than anonymous screenshots though. When I needed help with a different issue (basically to stop someone I'd met being ripped off via a boiler room operation) I had someone helping me to highlight the fraud loophole that was being used so I could talk to the person about it, all of which went via PM. I think there's a lot that goes on "behind the scenes" so to speak. I know loads of people who've helped each other like this.
    Please stay safe in the sun and learn the A-E of melanoma: A = asymmetry, B = irregular borders, C= different colours, D= diameter, larger than 6mm, E = evolving, is your mole changing? Most moles are not cancerous, any doubts, please check next time you visit your GP.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 19th Mar 17, 2:08 PM
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    lincroft1710
    Viva, from memory the newspaper clippings you used had actual prices or asking prices. OP's appears to have opinion. From experience a pub next door may have an effect on the sale price

    There are 2 very relevant factors, the percentage effect on the price and whereabouts in the band the house sits. There is also a problem that a quiet, well run pub can with change of landlord/manager become noisy and badly managed. Trying to compare house prices without analysing every single aspect is very difficult, hence the VOA "broad brush" approach.

    OP is also claiming about the disadvantage of living 2 metres fro a busy main road, but this difficult to quantify in terms of effect on value.

    There is merit in the OP's case but there is no definitive or proven answer.
    • Cofty
    • By Cofty 20th Mar 17, 9:30 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Cofty
    Morning all. Apologies for the silence, I was away this weekend.

    Thank you for your invaluable contributions, each of you bring different perspectives. Let me just clarify a couple of points though:
    1) I am not necessarily here to screen dump on-line opinion. The most valuable outcome would be to gain ideas from you - e.g. where to find the right info, what types of information to source to strengthen my case, etc; and also to learn from your experiences (like Vivatifosi's for example) of presenting at a tribunal.
    2) then there is also the possibility of sourcing expert opinion via this forum. For example, say one of you were a lead figure in a leading estate agency, you may be willing to come off-line and provide me with expert opinion of my original queries. I agree that that alone would not carry much weight, but together with evidence-based argument, it would be very helpful. I'm not familiar with the specifics of the valuation tribunal, but I am more so with the Crown Courts and small claims courts (on the right side of the law, in case you're wondering ) - and in those situations expert opinion is often an invaluable perspective and can add significant value to a case. So my thought is, why not in this case? Or, another example, if you were able to point me in the direction of someone in this forum who could help, or somewhere (e.g. articles, publications, etc) where this expert opinion is given.

    I'd welcome more thoughts from you all and would be grateful to keep to conversation going if at all possible.

    Many thanks
    • Cofty
    • By Cofty 20th Mar 17, 9:42 AM
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    Cofty
    Lincroft, regarding "whereabouts in the band the house sits" - I do not know that, the VOA did not tell me.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 20th Mar 17, 1:31 PM
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    lincroft1710
    I have attended many VTs and presented hundreds of CT appeals. I cannot recall an instance of "expert opinion", perhaps a couple of cases of newspaper articles.

    Whilst walking in town today I came across an almost completed apartment complex, being converted from a small office block, which adjoined a pub. I started thinking about houses next to pubs and it struck me that there cannot be much sales evidence of houses in this situation. So an estate agent (and i believe there is only currently one on these boards) may have no experience of this.

    It would help if we knew the date and purchase price of your house and the CT band.

    The VOA should be able to get an idea of where in the band your house sits from sales comparables. If they intend using these comparables at VT they should send you details at least 2 weeks prior to the hearing.

    If this has happened perhaps you could post up a summary, house size, no of beds, sale date, price.
    • Cofty
    • By Cofty 20th Mar 17, 1:57 PM
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    Cofty
    Hi again. Thanks for the feedback, I do take your point about the expert opinio so perhaps that specific avenue is one not pursuing - but let's see.
    I'm still at the stage of sending my appeal form to the the Tribunal, so we are some time off yet.

    Do I need to check with this forum's moderators about data protection on this? You know my vague location from my profile, if I provide property size / sale price / date, does that cross any lines? (its not about you contributors, just more about the rules and not wanting to get in trouble).

    I shall be visiting the local library to see what I can find. The property is currently a 4-bed but when bought in 1993, it was a 3-bed.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 20th Mar 17, 2:10 PM
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    Moneyineptitude
    You know my vague location from my profile, if I provide property size / sale price / date, does that cross any lines? (its not about you contributors, just more about the rules and not wanting to get in trouble).
    Originally posted by Cofty
    While not recommended (for reasons nothing to do with data protection), you can fully identify yourself on the forum if you wish. It's your own privacy you should be protecting though ...
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 20th Mar 17, 6:32 PM
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    lincroft1710
    As you won't be providing any addresses you won't be breaching any data protection by giving sales details
    • Cofty
    • By Cofty 21st Mar 17, 9:39 AM
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    Cofty
    OK, so I've made some changes to my profile just in case!

    The property is 4-bed, 773k, bought in June 2016. Band is G, it was F.
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