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  • FIRST POST
    • Towser
    • By Towser 16th Mar 17, 11:58 PM
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    Towser
    Why is planning permission so difficult to achieve?
    • #1
    • 16th Mar 17, 11:58 PM
    Why is planning permission so difficult to achieve? 16th Mar 17 at 11:58 PM
    Recently a few plots of land have been put up for sale without planning permission. They have descriptions which say they are suitable for dwellings and even have artists drawings of how the houses could look on the plots.
    Why is planning permission so difficult to achieve? The price of the land alters dramatically between the two with and without planning permission. The only thing I can think of is tree preservation orders and obviously objections from the locals.
    How long does planning permission take to achieve I don't want to live in a caravan for years.
Page 1
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 17th Mar 17, 12:19 AM
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    Cakeguts
    • #2
    • 17th Mar 17, 12:19 AM
    • #2
    • 17th Mar 17, 12:19 AM
    Some plots of land will never be granted planning permission.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 17th Mar 17, 12:43 AM
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    marliepanda
    • #3
    • 17th Mar 17, 12:43 AM
    • #3
    • 17th Mar 17, 12:43 AM
    Recently a few plots of land have been put up for sale without planning permission. They have descriptions which say they are suitable for dwellings and even have artists drawings of how the houses could look on the plots.
    Why is planning permission so difficult to achieve? The price of the land alters dramatically between the two with and without planning permission. The only thing I can think of is tree preservation orders and obviously objections from the locals.
    How long does planning permission take to achieve I don't want to live in a caravan for years.
    Originally posted by Towser
    Are you actually waiting in a caravan for houses to be built on this plot of land?

    Planning permission on the whole is not difficult to achieve as long as it doesn't contravene any local planning policies, the local development plan, the affect it may have on locals, traffic, etcetc

    If it CAN get planning permission , it's really easy.

    If it can't, then it can't.

    You seem to think it's taking a long time because it takes a long time. How do you know it isn't taking a long time because it's not happening.

    Why isn't the owner selling it with planning permission to command a higher price?

    Put it this way, don't hold your breath in your caravan.
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 17th Mar 17, 6:56 AM
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    Doozergirl
    • #4
    • 17th Mar 17, 6:56 AM
    • #4
    • 17th Mar 17, 6:56 AM
    It will have little to do with local objections and TPOS.

    It will have most to do with local planning policy. You must read the local development plan and the supplementary planning guidance.

    Selling without PP may also be that the land actually isn't worth much more even with houses on it. In low value areas, the price of buying and building could be a bit close for comfort to the final value.

    In a higher land value area it may well be that it is a difficult plot. The risk is high but the pay off would be great. The risk has to be assessed, which brings us back to reading the local plan.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 17th Mar 17, 8:28 AM
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    davidmcn
    • #5
    • 17th Mar 17, 8:28 AM
    • #5
    • 17th Mar 17, 8:28 AM
    Have there been any planning applications for the site?
    • sparky130a
    • By sparky130a 17th Mar 17, 8:36 AM
    • 425 Posts
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    sparky130a
    • #6
    • 17th Mar 17, 8:36 AM
    • #6
    • 17th Mar 17, 8:36 AM
    Recently a few plots of land have been put up for sale without planning permission. They have descriptions which say they are suitable for dwellings and even have artists drawings of how the houses could look on the plots.
    Why is planning permission so difficult to achieve? The price of the land alters dramatically between the two with and without planning permission. The only thing I can think of is tree preservation orders and obviously objections from the locals.
    How long does planning permission take to achieve I don't want to live in a caravan for years.
    Originally posted by Towser
    Bear in mind that virtually any land ripe for PP (granted or not) will attract developers that You'll have to compete with.
    • bertiewhite
    • By bertiewhite 17th Mar 17, 8:38 AM
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    bertiewhite
    • #7
    • 17th Mar 17, 8:38 AM
    • #7
    • 17th Mar 17, 8:38 AM
    It depends on what type of planning permission it is I guess - a property next to me was always going to get permission for holiday lets because it will bring tourist money to the area.
    • Towser
    • By Towser 17th Mar 17, 8:43 AM
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    Towser
    • #8
    • 17th Mar 17, 8:43 AM
    • #8
    • 17th Mar 17, 8:43 AM
    There are some plots of land for sale without planning permission in Ringshall. Each plot comprises a parcel of land off the east side of Ringshall Road with the plot sizes varying between 0.16 of an acre and 0.2 acre. The plots are sold on an unconditional basis only and purchasers are deemed to rely on their own enquiries with regard to development potential but with each plot having a frontage to
    Ringshall Road of some 30ft., the plots may provide the opportunity for future development possibly for a single residential dwelling or similar. What is the likelihood of getting planning permission?

    Not waiting in a caravan yet, like you say won't hold my breath.

    There seems like a lot of people to be consulted including National Heritage and National Trust:


    Consultee
    1) LITTLE GADDESDEN PARISH COUNCIL
    2) NORTHCHURCH PARISH COUNCIL
    3) ARCHAEOLOGY UNIT
    4) The National Trust
    5) CONVENOR - HERTS PLANNING TEAM
    6) HERTFORDSHIRE BIOLOGICAL RECORDS CENTRE
    7) HEAD OF CONSERVATION
    8) TREES & WOODLANDS
    9) The Chiltern Society
    • Ithaca
    • By Ithaca 17th Mar 17, 8:44 AM
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    Ithaca
    • #9
    • 17th Mar 17, 8:44 AM
    • #9
    • 17th Mar 17, 8:44 AM
    Sometimes it can be worth buying land in anticipation of a change in planing policy that might not come about for several years. Councils often release parcels of land bit by bit for house building as and when called out in a new version of their Local Plan, but there are no guarantees so it's a gamble.

    We have a notorious stretch of land in our town which for years and years the Council refused to grant planning permission for. The landowner got so fed up that he started hosting a three-times-a-year Gypsy Horse Fair on the land in the hope it would p*ss the locals off so much they'd pressure the Council to relax permission. The first part worked - it causes chaos in the town and people really resent it - but the Council wouldn't budge until recently when they were under pressure to add another 750 homes as part of a revised Local Plan. So if you can afford to take a long-term view it can be a sensible investment but if you're just looking for somewhere to build your own grand design it's probably better finding a site with planning permission already in place.
    • ProDave
    • By ProDave 17th Mar 17, 8:46 AM
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    • 147 Thanks
    ProDave
    There are a lot of these scams around, selling "plots" on land that will be very unlikely to ever get planning permission. If it was possible to get planning, they would, and sell them for much more with proper planning as proper house plots.

    Typical reasons doe not getting planning are green belt, outside the development zone of a town or village, or not even in any form of existing settlement, i.e where they are is not "housing" land in the local plan.
    • sparky130a
    • By sparky130a 17th Mar 17, 8:59 AM
    • 425 Posts
    • 577 Thanks
    sparky130a
    There are some plots of land for sale without planning permission in Ringshall. Each plot comprises a parcel of land off the east side of Ringshall Road with the plot sizes varying between 0.16 of an acre and 0.2 acre. The plots are sold on an unconditional basis only and purchasers are deemed to rely on their own enquiries with regard to development potential but with each plot having a frontage to
    Ringshall Road of some 30ft., the plots may provide the opportunity for future development possibly for a single residential dwelling or similar. What is the likelihood of getting planning permission?

    Not waiting in a caravan yet, like you say won't hold my breath.

    There seems like a lot of people to be consulted including National Heritage and National Trust:


    Consultee
    1) LITTLE GADDESDEN PARISH COUNCIL
    2) NORTHCHURCH PARISH COUNCIL
    3) ARCHAEOLOGY UNIT
    4) The National Trust
    5) CONVENOR - HERTS PLANNING TEAM
    6) HERTFORDSHIRE BIOLOGICAL RECORDS CENTRE
    7) HEAD OF CONSERVATION
    8) TREES & WOODLANDS
    9) The Chiltern Society
    Originally posted by Towser
    None of those consultee's surprise me one bit. In fact i'd say that list is quite short.

    Having said that you'll probably find various (quite possibly many!) departments within each entity that are required to sign off.

    Time taken will vary by authority and their budget and resources.
    • Fuzzyness
    • By Fuzzyness 17th Mar 17, 9:10 AM
    • 607 Posts
    • 442 Thanks
    Fuzzyness
    Recently a few plots of land have been put up for sale without planning permission. They have descriptions which say they are suitable for dwellings and even have artists drawings of how the houses could look on the plots.
    Why is planning permission so difficult to achieve? The price of the land alters dramatically between the two with and without planning permission. The only thing I can think of is tree preservation orders and obviously objections from the locals.
    How long does planning permission take to achieve I don't want to live in a caravan for years.
    Originally posted by Towser
    its a bit of an open ended up question. if you propose the right development in the right location securing planning permission is not difficult to achieve. Councils will regularly quote you that nearly 90% of planning applications submitted are approved (dont quote me on that but its a very high percentage that are approved).

    if you are wanting a new house on an agricultural field in the middle of the countryside i'm afraid your chances of success are low. if you are looking to demolish and rebuild and existing house/building the chances are better. what do you want to achieve and where (not the specific location but generally in town, edge of town, village etc.).
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 17th Mar 17, 9:25 AM
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    Doozergirl
    I haven't done any homework, but a quick google points toward a typical scam where people buy bits of countryside and divide it up to sell at what looks like cheap prices, and draw some pretty pictures of houses in order to make a profit.

    They were doing it near me in a designated "area of outstanding natural beauty" in a really key piece of greenbelt separating Birmingham from Worcestershire villages. Never going to get planning permission.

    Steer clear of these. In any area, land with genuine development potential for multiple plots would be worth a fortune to larger developers. And probably already owned by them.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Fuzzyness
    • By Fuzzyness 17th Mar 17, 9:47 AM
    • 607 Posts
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    Fuzzyness
    I haven't done any homework, but a quick google points toward a typical scam where people buy bits of countryside and divide it up to sell at what looks like cheap prices, and draw some pretty pictures of houses in order to make a profit.

    They were doing it near me in a designated "area of outstanding natural beauty" in a really key piece of greenbelt separating Birmingham from Worcestershire villages. Never going to get planning permission.

    Steer clear of these. In any area, land with genuine development potential for multiple plots would be worth a fortune to larger developers. And probably already owned by them.
    Originally posted by Doozergirl
    I've just had a look at the plots you are referring to. they are in AONB and a conservation area. also interesting area for archaeology and also within the curtilage of a registered park and garden. if you have no experience of the planning system those four things are saying stay well clear. they would be a mine field to try and navigate an application through. not saying its impossible but highly unlikely. there are easier plots out there.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 17th Mar 17, 11:14 AM
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    eddddy
    There's something very strange about those plots.

    They all show as being sold at auction on 13th March on the Auctioneer's website (Lots 28 and 89 to 94) :

    http://www.barnardmarcusauctions.co.uk/Auction-Results.html

    But they now appear on Rightmove as "Unsold at Auction on 13th March":

    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-58317019.html
    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-58315231.html

    (And the Auctioneer has already removed all the other properties that sold at that auction from Rightmove.)

    It would be really scary to think that somebody might have backed out, because they bid and bought without appreciating the planning situation. The litigation lawyers would be gleefully sharpening their pencils.

    But also, it's a respectable auction firm. It's strange that they're getting involved in something that looks so dodgy from the outside.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 17th Mar 17, 11:53 AM
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    Doozergirl
    The risk belongs to the buyer. These sorts of plots are always up at auction. Most of the time I've seen them, they don't really sell, thank goodness.

    Ultimately, anything can be sold. We'd buy the sort of house that was unmortgageable - a huge risk if you go in without doing any homework expecting someone to finance you. But necessary to us.

    We also bought a house with a potential building plot that had no value attached - more a liability, but we calculated it and it paid off, eventually.

    Wouldn't find me touching this sort of stuff though. Where people genuinely see potential, they will maximise it. That's what these sellers are doing. Buying cheap land that cannot be developed and selling it off at a substantial profit to people who aren't all that bright at a prive that looks amazing and worth a punt, even when it isn't.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • teneighty
    • By teneighty 17th Mar 17, 12:30 PM
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    teneighty
    I occasionally bid on building plots at the auctions and this technique of providing artists impressions seems to be a clever new trick.

    I have seen a few recently where the chances of actually getting planning are pretty much zero but they have artists impressions of usually very large luxurious houses which I assume is to try and catch out the inexperienced buyers.

    They usually seem to sell for more than just a plot of land but far less than a building plot with planning permission. So I guess the seller pays out for an artist impression hoping it will push the bidding up by an extra £10k or so or maybe a lot more if someone really falls for it, a nice little earner if it works.
    • Towser
    • By Towser 17th Mar 17, 9:44 PM
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    Towser
    The Land Registry calls such plots "souvenir land" ..... which says it all, really....
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 18th Mar 17, 4:27 AM
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    Davesnave
    The Land Registry calls such plots "souvenir land" ..... which says it all, really....
    Originally posted by Towser

    'Souvenir land' especially refers to plots where there was never any prospect of building, because the plots were too small to contain a property, and/or the original intention was conservation, or sentimental dedication etc.
    I used to suffer with kleptomania, but now I take something for it.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 18th Mar 17, 8:21 AM
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    davidmcn
    'Souvenir land' especially refers to plots where there was never any prospect of building, because the plots were too small to contain a property, and/or the original intention was conservation, or sentimental dedication etc.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    Yes, it's the "buy this square metre of land on our estate and call yourself a Highland Laird" sort of thing, where you couldn't possibly do anything useful with the land. Whereas these appear to be reasonably-sized plots, in theory you could use them for something even if getting planning permission might be an uphill struggle.
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