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    • kevinbooth83
    • By kevinbooth83 16th Mar 17, 9:59 PM
    • 13Posts
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    kevinbooth83
    UKCPS, course of action
    • #1
    • 16th Mar 17, 9:59 PM
    UKCPS, course of action 16th Mar 17 at 9:59 PM
    I've had a read of the sticky thread regarding tickets and see some very good advice but wondering if I could obtain some specific to my situation -

    I've had a windscreen ticket from UKCPS, for parking without a valid permit, the thing is I did have a pay & display ticket, it had just fallen down the side of the dash without me noticing, I still have said ticket and the PPC, both with the same date (22nd Feb).

    So i'm really after confirmation of my next course of action, I understand i'm to wait a month before sending an appeal, but only to do it via email/online, of which neither options are given on the UKCPS website, should I wait until the month then just recorded mail them a photocopy of the PPC and my ticket? And from what I've read it seems it'll be rejected anyway, so should I just let it go to court instead? A judge would surely see the charge as unjustified given clear evidence that I (or the driver as they should be referred to) did in fact pay for a ticket

    Many thanks in advance
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 16th Mar 17, 10:09 PM
    • 38,082 Posts
    • 76,164 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:09 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:09 PM
    You have got the jist of things. Just check the PCN left on the windscreen as some parking scammers only give 21 days to appeal, not 28. Consequently you should send the IPC template from the NEWBIES thread a few days before the appeal deadline. So, this will be around day 18/19 or day 25/26 depending what the scammers say.
    Day zero is the date of the alleged event.

    Use whatever method is given on the PCN to send the template. If postal is the only method allowed, or if there is no option online to select Keeper, then send first class from a Post Office counter and obtain a free proof of posting.

    Online is the best option, but watch out for auto-fill drop down menus that auto select Driver, or drop down menus that only allow the driver to appeal. Never ever select Driver. If that is the only option, then only send by post.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Mar 17, 10:11 PM
    • 13,538 Posts
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    Redx
    • #3
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:11 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:11 PM
    its 21 days for an IPC windscreen ticket, so anything you have read about "a month" is for BPA members only

    and always appeal, judges may take a dim view of you ignoring it , you have to be seen to have tried to deal with it, even by querying it
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 16th Mar 17, 10:12 PM
    • 38,082 Posts
    • 76,164 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:12 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:12 PM
    its 21 days for an IPC windscreen ticket, so anything you have read about "a month" is for BPA members only
    Originally posted by Redx
    Some do allow 28 days, but most only allow 21. It's always best to err on the side of caution.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • kevinbooth83
    • By kevinbooth83 16th Mar 17, 10:25 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kevinbooth83
    • #5
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:25 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:25 PM
    Thanks for the replies, it does state 21 days on the ticket, which would've made the deadline yesterday, nothing I can do about that now, so I guess i'll print out & sign the template letter, tailoring it to my case with the reason it's not a valid charge, and post it in along with my evidence, i'll go special delivery just for my piece of mind tbh, presumably this will be rejected but i've made an effort to take action even if a couple of days late, and after that i'll see what happens, it seems far fetched that i'll end up in front of a judge but it doesn't particularly worry me given I have good evidence, what worries me more is having to do all this and if they'll start harrassing me

    Thanks again
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Mar 17, 10:29 PM
    • 13,538 Posts
    • 16,580 Thanks
    Redx
    • #6
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:29 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:29 PM
    do not send special delivery, nor send recorded delivery either

    send using first class post , with a free certificate of posting from the P O Counter


    and yes , appeal anyway

    and yes they will "harrass" you , for up to 6 years , that is the nature of their business model (not parking per se)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 16th Mar 17, 10:34 PM
    • 38,082 Posts
    • 76,164 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #7
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:34 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:34 PM
    Thanks for the replies, it does state 21 days on the ticket, which would've made the deadline yesterday, nothing I can do about that now, so I guess i'll print out & sign the template letter, tailoring it to my case with the reason it's not a valid charge, and post it in along with my evidence, i'll go special delivery just for my piece of mind tbh, presumably this will be rejected but i've made an effort to take action even if a couple of days late, and after that i'll see what happens, it seems far fetched that i'll end up in front of a judge but it doesn't particularly worry me given I have good evidence, what worries me more is having to do all this and if they'll start harrassing me

    Thanks again
    Originally posted by kevinbooth83
    Send it online tonight if you can, if not, send it by post tomorrow as Redx has said. You don't need to tailor anything, just copy and paste the template already written so that it doesn't give away the driver's details.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • kevinbooth83
    • By kevinbooth83 16th Mar 17, 10:42 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kevinbooth83
    • #8
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:42 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:42 PM
    do not send special delivery, nor send recorded delivery either

    send using first class post , with a free certificate of posting from the P O Counter


    and yes , appeal anyway

    and yes they will "harrass" you , for up to 6 years , that is the nature of their business model (not parking per se)
    Originally posted by Redx
    May I ask why you're so insistent I only use first class post? The reason behind me saying i'd send special delivery is so that they can't dispute it's arrival, is there something i'm missing?
    • kevinbooth83
    • By kevinbooth83 16th Mar 17, 10:46 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kevinbooth83
    • #9
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:46 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:46 PM
    Send it online tonight if you can, if not, send it by post tomorrow as Redx has said. You don't need to tailor anything, just copy and paste the template already written so that it doesn't give away the driver's details.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    I've tailored in the sense that i've added a sentence stating that my evidence that the driver paid is enclosed with the letter, nothing else changed and no the drivers identity isn't given away.

    Just need to print it out and stick it in the post tomorrow now which i'll do on my lunch
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 16th Mar 17, 10:50 PM
    • 38,082 Posts
    • 76,164 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    May I ask why you're so insistent I only use first class post? The reason behind me saying i'd send special delivery is so that they can't dispute it's arrival, is there something i'm missing?
    Originally posted by kevinbooth83
    They can refuse to sign for it and thus have proof that it was never received.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Mar 17, 10:52 PM
    • 13,538 Posts
    • 16,580 Thanks
    Redx
    May I ask why you're so insistent I only use first class post? The reason behind me saying i'd send special delivery is so that they can't dispute it's arrival, is there something i'm missing?
    Originally posted by kevinbooth83
    oh yes they can , they can refuse it , all you have proven after that is its failure to arrive

    it is also one of many reasons that these companies use a P O BOX number, as a P O Box number cannot "sign" for packages , not signed for means undelivered

    this topic has been discussed hundreds of times , its deemed in law to have "arrived" 2 days after proof of posting by standard first class post by Royal Mail, hence why none of the paperwork you have received (or receive in the future) is "signed for", they only have to prove it was sent in the post by getting the same proof of posting from R.M.

    I accept you dont understand these legalities, but not understanding them does not negate them

    you have asked for advice from people who know the topic, best that you accept that advice and dont try to be "clever" by doing something different

    and DO NOT ALTER THE TEMPLATE , as you are likely to give away who the driver was by describing the circumstances on the day , save that for another day, like in a defence due to receiving an MCOL
    Last edited by Redx; 16-03-2017 at 10:55 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • kevinbooth83
    • By kevinbooth83 16th Mar 17, 10:55 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kevinbooth83
    They can refuse to sign for it and thus have proof that it was never received.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Ok that makes sense, thanks for clarifying, so long as i've got proof of postage the onus would be on them to prove they haven't received it, which they could do if they refused to sign for it.

    Right I think i'm set, thanks for the replies everybody, I know the info is in the sticky, but i do feel more confident having spoken to active members about it, thanks again.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Mar 17, 11:00 PM
    • 44,056 Posts
    • 56,764 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Please don't appeal a windscreen ticket late.

    Wait for the NTK then appeal - AFAIK you haven't had the postal NTK yet? The advice in the NEWBIES thread about IPC tickets is now to wait for the NTK anyway. I changed it maybe 10 days ago, at the last edit.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • kevinbooth83
    • By kevinbooth83 16th Mar 17, 11:04 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kevinbooth83
    oh yes they can , they can refuse it , all you have proven after that is its failure to arrive

    it is also one of many reasons that these companies use a P O BOX number, as a P O Box number cannot "sign" for packages , not signed for means undelivered

    this topic has been discussed hundreds of times , its deemed in law to have "arrived" 2 days after proof of posting by standard first class post by Royal Mail, hence why none of the paperwork you have received (or receive in the future) is "signed for", they only have to prove it was sent in the post by getting the same proof of posting from R.M.

    I accept you dont understand these legalities, but not understanding them does not negate them

    you have asked for advice from people who know the topic, best that you accept that advice and dont try to be "clever" by doing something different

    and DO NOT ALTER THE TEMPLATE , as you are likely to give away who the driver was by describing the circumstances on the day , save that for another day, like in a defence due to receiving an MCOL
    Originally posted by Redx
    Apologies if I came accross as unappreciative of the advice, i didn't see it stated so just thought it wouldn't matter how it was posted, i stand corrected now and genuinely appreciate the advice.

    As for the edit, I added only the below sentence, I can delete it before I print it -

    "I also enclose evidence that the driver had in fact purchased a valid parking ticket on the day in question, attached you will find photos of both the PCN and the pay & display ticket, which you will see both carry the same date and the ticket fee covers parking for the time in which the PCN was issued."
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Mar 17, 11:05 PM
    • 13,538 Posts
    • 16,580 Thanks
    Redx
    due to what was said above, and because its late for a windscreen ticket appeal, do as CM says and wait for the keeper to get a postal NTK

    also bear in mind that some judges take the view that these tickets should be printed on both sides and suitably sticky so they dont "fall down or blow away" , in other words they are not fir for purpose

    the postal issue has been "stated " hundreds if not thousands of times on this forum in the time I have been here , so about 4 to 5 years at the very least

    it is considered "normal" for legal cases and has been for decades due to the royal mail having the royal charter to deliver everything you can prove you contracted them for

    let us assume that you send it special delivery or "signed for" and it isnt signed for , then its held at the local PO sorting office and eventually returned to sender

    so you have no proof of delivery - ergo you dont use either of those 2 methods
    Last edited by Redx; 16-03-2017 at 11:09 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • kevinbooth83
    • By kevinbooth83 16th Mar 17, 11:09 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kevinbooth83
    Please don't appeal a windscreen ticket late.

    Wait for the NTK then appeal - AFAIK you haven't had the postal NTK yet? The advice in the NEWBIES thread about IPC tickets is now to wait for the NTK anyway. I changed it maybe 10 days ago, at the last edit.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    No nothing has come through the post yet, the PPC does state 21 days which is a day overdue and prompting me to act tomorrow.

    I did read in the sticky to wait a month but the initial replies to my post seemed like 'newer' advice, but if it was only edited recently then I know now why I was confused.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Mar 17, 11:13 PM
    • 13,538 Posts
    • 16,580 Thanks
    Redx
    the NTK cannot arrive before day 28 , so has to arrive between day 29 and day 56 if they wish to invoke POFA2012

    hence why she has said "wait for the NTK"

    most of the regulars here would state the "old way" , especially because you brought it up tonight

    now I know the advice has changed to "wait for the NTK" then that is the way forward

    by the way , it is not prompting YOU , it is prompting THE KEEPER to appeal as keeper having been handed the ticket by the DRIVER

    the words "me , myself and I" are banned on this forum , replaced by THE KEEPER , THE DRIVER etc

    or do you think that people like UKCPS dont bother to read forums like this one ?

    or take screenshots ?

    EXCEL/VCS tried it with lamilad
    Last edited by Redx; 16-03-2017 at 11:16 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • kevinbooth83
    • By kevinbooth83 16th Mar 17, 11:23 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kevinbooth83
    Ok i'm with you, the keeper shall wait until the NTK arrives, then post their appeal, the unaltered template letter, by standard 1st with proof of posting.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Mar 17, 11:25 PM
    • 44,056 Posts
    • 56,764 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    No nothing has come through the post yet, the PPC does state 21 days which is a day overdue and prompting me to act tomorrow.

    I did read in the sticky to wait a month but the initial replies to my post seemed like 'newer' advice, but if it was only edited recently then I know now why I was confused.
    Originally posted by kevinbooth83
    Even if I hadn't updated the sticky, I would always say that posting an appeal a day late, particularly on a Friday, is far too late to try an appeal. I would have advised to wait for the second appeal window, even if you'd asked me a year ago, because you missed the self-imposed 21 day limit.

    Also, in addition to the others pointing out that you never send stuff to any PPC for them to sign for (or not!). Sending anything for a fiver, on a Friday, that requires a scummy firm to sign for it at the weekend is asking for the letter to sit in the local sorting office for a week. Even a non-PPC firm that doesn't work on Saturdays would NOT get that letter until much later, they'd get a note from the sorting office asking them to go & collect it...
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 16-03-2017 at 11:29 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Mar 17, 11:26 PM
    • 13,538 Posts
    • 16,580 Thanks
    Redx
    correct (unless they have an alternative appeal method , so read the NTK after arrival)

    and as its an IPC member it will be rejected, which the blurb in the NEWBIES thread tells you (I have just re-read it to be sure of what it now says)

    so its all a paper exercise , for now
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
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