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  • FIRST POST
    • mcolqu
    • By mcolqu 16th Mar 17, 10:14 AM
    • 14Posts
    • 4Thanks
    mcolqu
    Fake Fibre Broadband
    • #1
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:14 AM
    Fake Fibre Broadband 16th Mar 17 at 10:14 AM
    It amazes me that the likes of BT, Sky, TalkTalk and other companies selling Fibre Broadband over a phoneline are allowed to call their Broadband Fibre.
    Anyone getting broadband supplied over a standard phoneline is NOT getting Fibre. What they are getting is a botch job of Fibre to the cabinet and then copper cables the rest of the way.
    Quite how Offcom allow broadband over a phone line to be sold as Fibre is beyond me.
    Also they will all advertise speeds up to 52mbps which no one will ever get unless you live on top of the cabinet.
    If your house or building is not close to the cabinet on the street, you will not get anywhere near a speed of 52mbps.
    The only broadband that should be allowed to be sold as Fibre is proper Fibre where the Fibre cables go right into your building.
    There are more and more companies providing this service and I was lucky enough to have one installed in my building recently by Hyperoptic. It's on a different planet to any pathetic offerings from the like of BT etc.
    The only other company offering proper Fibre broadband is Virgin via cable. Any other fibre offerings over a standard phone are futile and pathetic.
    I get a speed of 1Gbps up and down. That's what Fibre Broadband is.
    Mike.
Page 1
    • jadziad
    • By jadziad 16th Mar 17, 10:54 AM
    • 107 Posts
    • 136 Thanks
    jadziad
    • #2
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:54 AM
    • #2
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:54 AM
    True fact: in some rare cases, between a house and the exchange, somewhere within the BT infrastructure, there could be a microwave link, say for example accross a large field or terrain that would be difficult to lay cable down on. So, if a flock of birds goes through the link, or if the weather is *very* poor, or maybe a tractor goes through the fresnel zone, it can potentially very noticeably affect your "super fast fibre" connection.

    This is very rare though. But it happens.
    Last edited by jadziad; 16-03-2017 at 11:02 AM.
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 16th Mar 17, 11:11 AM
    • 7,309 Posts
    • 1,657 Thanks
    50Twuncle
    • #3
    • 16th Mar 17, 11:11 AM
    • #3
    • 16th Mar 17, 11:11 AM
    I get 70Mbps from.my FIBRE fttc connection
    • lee111s
    • By lee111s 16th Mar 17, 11:30 AM
    • 2,663 Posts
    • 1,843 Thanks
    lee111s
    • #4
    • 16th Mar 17, 11:30 AM
    • #4
    • 16th Mar 17, 11:30 AM
    It amazes me that the likes of BT, Sky, TalkTalk and other companies selling Fibre Broadband over a phoneline are allowed to call their Broadband Fibre.
    Anyone getting broadband supplied over a standard phoneline is NOT getting Fibre. What they are getting is a botch job of Fibre to the cabinet and then copper cables the rest of the way.
    Quite how Offcom allow broadband over a phone line to be sold as Fibre is beyond me.
    Also they will all advertise speeds up to 52mbps which no one will ever get unless you live on top of the cabinet.
    If your house or building is not close to the cabinet on the street, you will not get anywhere near a speed of 52mbps.
    The only broadband that should be allowed to be sold as Fibre is proper Fibre where the Fibre cables go right into your building.
    There are more and more companies providing this service and I was lucky enough to have one installed in my building recently by Hyperoptic. It's on a different planet to any pathetic offerings from the like of BT etc.
    The only other company offering proper Fibre broadband is Virgin via cable. Any other fibre offerings over a standard phone are futile and pathetic.
    I get a speed of 1Gbps up and down. That's what Fibre Broadband is.
    Originally posted by mcolqu
    The advertising standards agency allow it, so your gripe is with them.

    Most suppliers advertise a 38mpbs and a 76mbps service.

    To get 38mpbs, you need to be within about 750m of the cabinet. Around 75% of UK premises are within 700m.


    Virgin is pretty much exactly the same as Openreach's network. It's fibre to a node within a cabinet, then DOCSIS over coaxial (copper) cable. Virgin are the company who started calling it fibre broadband.

    Good for you with your 1Gbps, I can't even begin to imagine how much quicker your web pages load or how much faster you get your emails. You must be able to watch on demand content faster than all of use peasants too huh?

    For the vast, vast majority of the UK homes, those sorts of speeds are not required, and are unlikely to be for many years to come.
    Last edited by lee111s; 16-03-2017 at 11:54 AM.
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 16th Mar 17, 11:40 AM
    • 9,177 Posts
    • 3,724 Thanks
    JJ Egan
    • #5
    • 16th Mar 17, 11:40 AM
    • #5
    • 16th Mar 17, 11:40 AM
    OP identical post one month ago .
    Reads to me as a subtle spammer for hyperoptic .


    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5603554
    It amazes me how BT and the other big players get away with advertising their Broadband as Fibre when it is not.
    The best that BT or Sky or any of the other players can do is to offer Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC) and then a botch job from the cabinet on the street to your property
    etc etc
    • EdwardB
    • By EdwardB 16th Mar 17, 12:41 PM
    • 392 Posts
    • 297 Thanks
    EdwardB
    • #6
    • 16th Mar 17, 12:41 PM
    OFCOM fit for purpose?
    • #6
    • 16th Mar 17, 12:41 PM
    It amazes me that the likes of BT, Sky, TalkTalk and other companies selling Fibre Broadband over a phoneline are allowed to call their Broadband Fibre.
    Anyone getting broadband supplied over a standard phoneline is NOT getting Fibre. What they are getting is a botch job of Fibre to the cabinet and then copper cables the rest of the way.
    Quite how Offcom allow broadband over a phone line to be sold as Fibre is beyond me.
    Also they will all advertise speeds up to 52mbps which no one will ever get unless you live on top of the cabinet.
    If your house or building is not close to the cabinet on the street, you will not get anywhere near a speed of 52mbps.
    The only broadband that should be allowed to be sold as Fibre is proper Fibre where the Fibre cables go right into your building.
    There are more and more companies providing this service and I was lucky enough to have one installed in my building recently by Hyperoptic. It's on a different planet to any pathetic offerings from the like of BT etc.
    The only other company offering proper Fibre broadband is Virgin via cable. Any other fibre offerings over a standard phone are futile and pathetic.
    I get a speed of 1Gbps up and down. That's what Fibre Broadband is.
    Originally posted by mcolqu
    I agree but this whole Market is dysfuntional and OFCOM are just a bunch of self serving SUITS and SKIRTS who do more for the "Industry" than customers (yes customers, calling us Consumers makes us like Cattle, to be prodded, squeezed for every last drop, then slaughtered).

    How long have the industry been selling basic Broadband speeds at 17MB yet routinely delivering 0.5mb unless you sign up for the fibre for a RANSOM? Donkeys years!

    If OFCOM did their job they would say that in areas where ISP's can't provide 17mb they have to provide fibre at the lowest price that any of their customers pay for ADSL BB.

    OFCOM needs to take radical surgery to this market, force BT to sell off Wholesale/Openreach, Plusnet & EE. Encourage and invite new players, encourage the Mobile operators to get seriously interested in competing in the under £7 a month market for 10mb minimum DL speeds.

    The new independent Internet Wholesaler should have their mandate to be to reduce cost, for example rather than sending Engineers out to connect/disconnect every time there is a supplier change, once a connection has been made it should be left in place, then connected by software to a virtual circuit in VPN management system.

    They would be able to cut the number of Engineers drastically which would pay for the investment needed. LLU's may not even need their own kit at all levels, just the connection of the consumer to their VPN.

    Getting back to your point, I do think they should have a new "easy" name for when it is delivered by copper, something customers can understand, perhaps Hybrid (Copper Fibre) and ISP'sshould only be able to quote the 30th percentile of actual connection speeds that customers are getting.

    BT Engineers I know say that there is a huge amount of waste in Broadband provision because they effectively know it is being paid for either by LLU suppliers or customers leaving BT or BOTH.

    Of course expecting any improvement from OFCOM is like expecting peace in the Middle East or even World peace!

    Look at this BLOAT from OFCOM, whole organisation needs to be severely pruned into a lean and mean customer saving machine!
    1. The Board will operate on the principles of collective responsibility, support and respect.
    2. Board members should have access to all the information necessary to ensure vigorous debate and effective decision-making.
    3. In all situations, all Board members will be deemed to have agreed with all decisions.
    4. External pressure will not alter Board processes except for potential timelines.
    5. Board members' behaviour in response to decisions is required to be the same inside and outside Ofcom.
    6. Minority views will not be made public internally or externally.
    7. Nominated Board members (other than those who disagreed with a decision) may be required to explain and articulate specific decisions.
    8. If a Board member resigns he or she may state the basis for the disagreement, but may not publicly rehearse the arguments of other Board members.
    Basically it is a little club where you will PUT UP, or GET OUT and SHUT UP!

    I have been on Boards like this, there is a sort of clique with an objective, anybody steps out of line and they are sidelined then ejected, saw it happen to fine people in charity sector too.

    Here for you is the register of disclosable interests, you can see that for most OFCOM is "just another gig", I doubt that there is a single one of them that is truly passionate about getting best and lowest cost broadband for UK Customers.

    Register of disclosable Interests
    NameBoard/CommitteeStatusInterests Dame Patricia Hodgson MBE Ofcom Board Chairman. Appointed 1 April 2014
    • Pensioner in the Ofcom (former ITC) Pension Plan
    • BBC Pension
    Risk & Audit Committee Member Nominations Committee Chairman Remuneration Committee Member The Baroness Noakes DBE Ofcom Board Deputy Chairman. Appointed 1 June 2014
    • Non-executive Director, Royal Bank of Scotland (where she chairs the Board Risk Committee)
    • Member of the House of Lords Economic Affairs Committee
    • Member of the House of Lords EU Internal Markets Committee
    Letter to the Secretary of State regarding Baroness Noakes' interests.
    Letter to the Shadow Secretary of State regarding Baroness Noakes' interests
    Risk & Audit Committee Chairman Nominations Committee Member Remuneration Committee Chairman Sharon White Ofcom Board Chief Executive. Appointed March 2015
    • None
    Non-executive Remunerations Committee Member Dr Steve Unger Ofcom Board Member
    • Member of the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE)
    Dame Lynne Brindley Ofcom Board Member. Appointed 1 September 2011
    • Council Member, City University
    • Court Member, Goldsmiths' Livery Company
    • Chair of Trustees, Goldsmiths' Centre of Goldsmiths' Charity
    • Stanford University Advisory Council for Libraries and Academic Information Resources
    • Wolfson Foundation (Arts Panel), Member
    • Master of Pembroke College Oxford
    Content Board Member Nations Committee Chairman Nominations Committee Member Remuneration Committee Member Graham Mather Ofcom Board Member. Appointed 1 June 2014
    • President of the European Policy Forum and Chairman of its Regulatory Best Practice Group
    • Director, Greenham Common Community Trust Limited
    • Director, Pelican Cancer Foundation
    • Director, Social Market Foundation
    • Member of the Department of Transport’s Challenge Panel looking at the future of rail regulation
    • Sole director of Foliat Company, a private unlimited company which will not engage in any activities relevant to Ofcom.
    Nations Committee Member Risk & Audit Committee Member Nominations Committee Member Remuneration Committee Member Jonathan Oxley Ofcom Board Member
    • Member of the BT Defined Benefit Pension Scheme
    • Previously (4 May 2006 to 12 May 2010) Local Councillor (London Borough of Ealing)
    Ben Verwaayen Ofcom Board Member. Appointed 1 January 2016
    • None
    Nominations Committee Member Remuneration Committee Member Andrew Chitty Content Board Member. Appointed 18 September 2013
    • Director, Creative England Ltd
    • Director & Trustee, TRC Media
    • Interest in Digital Life Sciences
    Andrew Colman Content Board Member. Appointed 18 September 2013
    • BBC Pensioner
    • Freelance TV executive producer
    • Member of the board of trustees of the Belfast Print Workshop, a not-for-profit arts organisation
    Robin Foster Content Board Member. Appointed 1 January 2016
    • Member of Communications Chambers, a consultancy specialising in telecoms, media and technology
    • Independent Member, Advertising Advisory Committee at BCAP
    • Member, Advisory Committee for the Goldsmiths College-led Inquiry into the future of Public Service TV
    Dr David Levy Content Board Member. Appointed 1 May 2011
    • Director, Reuters Institute, University of Oxford
    • Pensioner, BBC
    • BT Small Shareholding
    • Non-executive member of the Board, UK Statistics Authority
    • Fellow, Green Templeton College, Oxford University
    • BT, small shareholding
    Lesley Mackenzie Content Board Member. Appointed 18 September 2013
    • CEO, Mackenzie Media Ltd
    • Chief Operating Officer, Engage Sports Media
    • EVP E-Entertainment at ProSiebenSat.1 Media AG
    • CEO, Maxdome at ProSiebenSat. 1 Media AG
    • Consultancy with Middle East Broadcasting Centre (mbc), looking specifically at their Video on Demand (VOD) strategy.
    Professor Philip Schlesinger Content Board Member. Appointed 1 December 2014
    • Professor in Cultural Policy, Centre for Cultural Policy Research, University of Glasgow
    • Deputy Director of CREATe, RCUK Centre for Copyright and New Business Models in the Creative Economy
    • Fellow, Royal Society of Edinburgh
    • Fellow, Royal Society of Arts
    • Holds shares in BT
    • Fellow, Academy of the Social Sciences
    • Visiting Professor in Media and Communications, London School of Economics and Political Science
    • Visiting Professor in ‘the Department of’ Media and Communications, London School of Economics and Political Science
    Mary Ann Sieghart Content Board Member. Appointed 1 September 2014
    • Chair of the Social Market Foundation Think Tank
    • Non-executive Director of Henderson Smaller Companies Investment Trust
    • Non-executive Director of DLN Digital (a company that supplies digital projectors for Odeon Cinemas)
    • Member of the Council of Tate Modern
    • Member of Advisory Board, Women in Jouranlism
    • Non-executive Director of The Merchants Trust
    • Occasional presenter on TV and radio
    • Occasional columnist, Politics
    Janey Walker Content Board Member. Appointed 1 May 2011
    • Member of the Channel 4 Corporation (C4C) pension scheme
    Zahera Harb Content Board Member. Appointed 1 December 2015
    • Freelance consultant & Media Trainer, Thomson Foundation UK
    • Board Member, Ethical Journalism Network
    • Member, International Assoc. for Media and Communication Research
    • Review Editor, Journal of Media Practice
    • Editorial Board Member, Middle East Journal of Culture and Communications
    • Board Member, JOMEC Journal Editorial
    • Member, Migrant and Refugee Communities Forum Media Awards Committee
    • Member, Media Communications & Cultural Studies Association
    Aled Eirug Content Board Member. Appointed 1 December 2015
    • None
    Tony Close Content Board Member
    • None
    Nick Pollard Content Board Member. Appointed 1 January 2016
    • None
    John Varney Advisory Committee for England Chairman. Appointed Member 1 January 2009 and Chairman with effect from 1 July 2014
    • Director, Maximum Clarity, supporting public and private sector bodies
    • Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts
    • Fellow of the Royal Television Society
    • NED, Vislink Plc
    • Governor, Manchester Metropolitan University
    • Chair, Technology Advisory Board
    • Business Coach, Enterprises Macclesfield
    Nations Committee Member, England Graham Creelman OBE Advisory Committee for England Member. Appointed 1 January 2009
    • Director, Graham Creelman Associates Ltd
    • Pro-Chancellor, Norwich University of the Arts
    • Holds ITV shares
    • Holds STV shares
    • Holds United News & Media shares
    • Chair, Norfolk Strategic Partnership for Older People’s Services
    Barnie Choudhury Advisory Committee for England Member. Appointed 1 September 2012
    • Owner, Sensei Creative Productions
    • Diversity Panel, ITV London
    • Member, NUJ
    • Chairman, Awaaz
    • Member, Broadcast Journalism Training Council
    • Lay Advisor, Dept of Health's Equality & Diversity Council
    Becky Hogge Advisory Committee for England Member. Appointed 1 September 2012
    • Director, Barefoot Publishing Ltd
    • Advisory Council Member, Open Knowledge Foundation
    • Advisory Council Member, Open Rights Group
    • Advisory Council Member, UK Foundation for Information Policy Research
    Wendy Pilmer Community Radio Fund Panel Member. Appointed 1 January 2009
    • Runs her own consultancy which offers services to the industry including the BBC.
    Laura Alexander Advisory Committee for Scotland Chairman. Appointed 1 April 2007
    • Member of the Institute of Engineering Technology (IET)
    Nations Committee Member, Scotland Peter Peacock Advisory Committee for Scotland Member. Appointed 1 November 2012
    • Shareholder, BT
    Liz Leonard Advisory Committee for Scotland Member. Appointed 1 February 2013
    • BBC, periodic freelance contracts
    • Scottish Refugee Council, Vice-Chair
    • Insight Radio (RNIB)
    • Cross Party Group on Digital Participation ' Scottish Parliament, Member
    • Scottish Women in Business, Member
    Ian McKay Advisory Committee for Scotland Member. Appointed 1 February 2013
    • Board Member, Critiqom Ltd
    John Trower Advisory Committee for Scotland Member. Appointed 1 September 2015
    • Scottish Futures Trust
    • Member, Institution of Engineering & Technology
    John Davies Advisory Committee for Wales Member. Appointed 1 March 2007
    • BT pensioner
    • Chairman of Adventurers Quay Management Ltd
    • Member, Welsh Assembly Business Dept Governance Sub-Committee
    • Senior Trustee, E.F. Sparkes Trust
    • Member of the Broadband Superfast Exploitation Panel
    Nations Committee Member, Wales Nerys Evans Advisory Committee for Wales Member. Appointed 1 November 2012
    • Plaid Cymru, UNDEB representative on National Executive Committee
    • Plaid Cymru, Deputy Chair
    • Deryn Consulting, public affairs monitoring for EE in Wales & Ofcom Wales
    • The Public Affairs Consultancy company 'Deryn' - of which Nerys is a founding Director - is working with a TV production company 'Tarian' who have just won a S4C commission for a political drama. Nerys is one of the political advisers on the project.
    Glyn Mathias Advisory Committee for Wales Member. Appointed 1 July 2015
    • Pensioner, BBC and ITN
    • Chairman (Membership Selection Panel), Welsh Water
    Huw Roberts Advisory Committee for Wales Member. Appointed 1 November 2012
    • Pensioner ' BBC/ITN
    • Retired employee of RMG with residual interest
    • Member, NUJ
    • Chair, Arts & Business Cymru
    • Deputy Chair, Artes Mundi
    • Chair, IoD Wales
    • Fellow, Institute of Welsh Affairs
    • Member, Cymru Yfory
    • Member, RTS
    Hywel Wiliam Advisory Committee for Wales Member. Appointed 1 July 2014
    • Director, AIM Group(UK) Ltd
    • Administrator, RTS Wales Centre
    • Director, Games Development Show Ltd
    • Board Member, Creative Skills Wales
    Maureen Edmondson Advisory Committee for Northern Ireland Chairman. Appointed 1 January 2014
    • None
    Nations Committee Member, Northern Ireland Brendan Mulgrew Advisory Committee for Northern Ireland Member. Appointed 1 June 2012
    • None
    Fiona MacMillan Advisory Committee for Northern Ireland Member. Appointed 1 September 2012
    • Non-Executive Director, Stratagem Northern Ireland and Stratagem International
    • Board Member/Deputy Chair of Finance & Audit Committee, Northern Ireland Screen
    Fiona Boyle Advisory Committee for Northern Ireland Member. Appointed 1 September 2014
    • Freelance Research Consultant, Fiona Boyle Associates
    • Carnegie Oldpark, Director
    Sharon O'Connor Advisory Committee for Northern Ireland Member. Appointed 1 September 2014
    • Chair, Regional Education Authority for Northern Ireland
    Paul Wilson Advisory Committee for Northern Ireland Member. Appointed 1 September 2014
    • Fellow of the Institute of Engineering Technology
    • BT shareholder
    Last edited by EdwardB; 16-03-2017 at 11:10 PM.
    Please be nice to all MoneySavers. That’s the forum motto. Remember, the prime aim is to help provide info and resources. If you don’t like someone, their situation, their question or feel they’re intruding on ‘your board’ then please bite the bullet and think of the bigger issue.
    • kwikbreaks
    • By kwikbreaks 16th Mar 17, 10:06 PM
    • 8,554 Posts
    • 4,256 Thanks
    kwikbreaks
    • #7
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:06 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:06 PM
    Wow - that's definately TLDR; for me.
    • littleboo
    • By littleboo 16th Mar 17, 11:13 PM
    • 504 Posts
    • 221 Thanks
    littleboo
    • #8
    • 16th Mar 17, 11:13 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Mar 17, 11:13 PM
    It amazes me that the likes of BT, Sky, TalkTalk and other companies selling Fibre Broadband over a phoneline are allowed to call their Broadband Fibre.
    Anyone getting broadband supplied over a standard phoneline is NOT getting Fibre. What they are getting is a botch job of Fibre to the cabinet and then copper cables the rest of the way.
    Quite how Offcom allow broadband over a phone line to be sold as Fibre is beyond me.
    Also they will all advertise speeds up to 52mbps which no one will ever get unless you live on top of the cabinet.
    If your house or building is not close to the cabinet on the street, you will not get anywhere near a speed of 52mbps.
    The only broadband that should be allowed to be sold as Fibre is proper Fibre where the Fibre cables go right into your building.
    There are more and more companies providing this service and I was lucky enough to have one installed in my building recently by Hyperoptic. It's on a different planet to any pathetic offerings from the like of BT etc.
    The only other company offering proper Fibre broadband is Virgin via cable. Any other fibre offerings over a standard phone are futile and pathetic.
    I get a speed of 1Gbps up and down. That's what Fibre Broadband is.
    Originally posted by mcolqu
    Classic fail thinking that Virgin are a FTTC provider when the vast majority of their network is a hybrid fibre/copper co-ax network. BT has a massive fttp footprint, I spec it on a regular basis for corporate customers. If you think you will get it for peanuts per month you are in cloud cuckoo
    • lee111s
    • By lee111s 16th Mar 17, 11:46 PM
    • 2,663 Posts
    • 1,843 Thanks
    lee111s
    • #9
    • 16th Mar 17, 11:46 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Mar 17, 11:46 PM
    Classic fail thinking that Virgin are a FTTC provider when the vast majority of their network is a hybrid fibre/copper co-ax network. BT has a massive fttp footprint, I spec it on a regular basis for corporate customers. If you think you will get it for peanuts per month you are in cloud cuckoo
    Originally posted by littleboo

    Virgin is still essentiall FTTC. It's fibre to a node (housed in a cabinet) then delivered via a copper coaxial cable to the homes.

    The difference being that they have more nodes/splitter nodes than Openreach have fibre cabs. However, the utilisation issues on Virgin can be horrific and take many, many months to be resolved.
    • AndyPK
    • By AndyPK 17th Mar 17, 12:04 PM
    • 1,996 Posts
    • 513 Thanks
    AndyPK
    you can get faster speeds down virgins coax(200Mbps?), than BT's/OR twisted pair though.
    • onomatopoeia99
    • By onomatopoeia99 17th Mar 17, 12:17 PM
    • 2,827 Posts
    • 6,179 Thanks
    onomatopoeia99
    you can get faster speeds down virgins coax(200Mbps?), than BT's/OR twisted pair though.
    Originally posted by AndyPK
    It's capable of higher throughput than the than widely available FTTC options on the BT network, but still copper. A better physical layer than twisted pair, certainly, but that reflects the the later time that network was built.

    BT did offer to cable the whole network at their cost in the 1980s. The government of the day refused, because they didn't like the condition that BT attached for doing it (not opening the network for wholesale access).
    INTP, nerd, libertarian and scifi geek.
    Home is where my books are.
    • lee111s
    • By lee111s 17th Mar 17, 2:01 PM
    • 2,663 Posts
    • 1,843 Thanks
    lee111s
    you can get faster speeds down virgins coax(200Mbps?), than BT's/OR twisted pair though.
    Originally posted by AndyPK
    If you're lucky enough to not be in a contended area. Ping and jitter still tends to be worse on VM.

    G.fast is imminent along with Openreach's increasing roll out for FTTP (appreciate VM are doing some full FTTP too but congestion will still remain I imagine).
    • kwikbreaks
    • By kwikbreaks 17th Mar 17, 3:56 PM
    • 8,554 Posts
    • 4,256 Thanks
    kwikbreaks
    A better physical layer than twisted pair, certainly, but that reflects the the later time that network was built.
    Originally posted by onomatopoeia99
    Actually neither were designed for broadband delivery. One for voice and the other for piped analogue TV. It's nothing short of a miracle that the old twisted pair tech originally laid down to deliver 3kBps can actually deliver up to 24Mbps over the same copper and upto 76Mbps from a nearby street cabinet.

    DOCSIS is actually just as much of a bodge job and although it can deliver high downstream speeds that are distance independent there is an Achilles heel in the way upstream is handled and that coupled with torrents is why you'll see some people claiming their connection is little better than dialup at times.
    • AndyPK
    • By AndyPK 17th Mar 17, 5:24 PM
    • 1,996 Posts
    • 513 Thanks
    AndyPK
    My virgin upload is 3Mbps. Silly! I was trying to upload some video's last week.
    • kwikbreaks
    • By kwikbreaks 18th Mar 17, 10:33 AM
    • 8,554 Posts
    • 4,256 Thanks
    kwikbreaks
    A cable downstream channel handles 50Mbps and an upstream only 18Mbps. With upstream the modem has to request an upstream time slot to transmit and that is what leads to the jitter.

    With xDSL technologies there is an uncontended path back to the DLM where it joins fibre but with cable it's a shared path so if modems transmitted whenever they had data you'd get collisions.

    Last time I was on cable there were 4 x 50Mbps downstreams and 2 x18Mbps upstreams and that puny bandwidth would have been shared with maybe a couple of hundred or more customers. VM were selling 100Mbps down and either 5 or10Mbps up together with throttling back bandwith hogs. The ASA said they couldn't advertise as unlimited with the throttling in place so it got either seriously curtailed or removes I'm not sure which. Naturally there was no corresponding network upgrade so in many places contention replaced the deliberate throttling and everybody suffered,

    Looking at the way pricing is going now everybody bumped their rates when the ASA decided they had to include line rental in the prices to help the mathematically challenged there is a chance I may be going back to cable at the end of my minimum term this June because VM pricing looks better than PlusNet fibre right now.
    • Buzby
    • By Buzby 18th Mar 17, 3:04 PM
    • 8,007 Posts
    • 2,927 Thanks
    Buzby
    Can I clarify that Virgin did NOT originally claim they had a fibre network. I have their service since it started in my area (1996). It was an additional service to TV/Phone and fibre was never mentioned.

    BT started this and I complained to OFTEL about the misrepresentation, who sided with BT in that if it was materially faster then dial-up, it was allowed. The use of the term Superfast Broadband is also lamentably nonsensical. When Virgin jumped on the 'fibre' bandwagon, they admitted it was because of BT's misdirection, but would be disadvantaged commercially if they didn't.

    I'm on 200Mb/s from Virgin, something that BT cannot get close to - but as they don't offer FTTC in my area, and nobody can afford FTTP, that's a non starter. When this does change, what will they call it? It can't be 'fibre' as that ship has already sailed- perhaps it's going to be SuperDuper Broadband?
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