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    • GCMatthews2000
    • By GCMatthews2000 16th Mar 17, 10:08 AM
    • 7Posts
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    GCMatthews2000
    Halfords estimates hours only
    • #1
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:08 AM
    Halfords estimates hours only 16th Mar 17 at 10:08 AM
    Hi, I took my care to Halfords and they estimated it would take them 1.6 hours to do the job but did not say cost. Of course I am stupid and should have asked but I didn't. When I came back to collect car they then wanted £88 an hour. Is this legal, to give an estimate in terms of hours but not give the cost? I feel like they do it on purpose to trick me. Taken to an extreme, if they charged say £10,000 an hour, would I still not have a leg to stand on?
Page 1
    • paddyrg
    • By paddyrg 16th Mar 17, 10:26 AM
    • 13,013 Posts
    • 11,082 Thanks
    paddyrg
    • #2
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:26 AM
    • #2
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:26 AM
    I suggest you start asking in the future - if you go to a lawyer, they'll charge you £300/hr. Seriously, though, what did you expect them to charge? Minimum wage? £50/hr? The fact you didn't agree a rate was your mistake not theirs. They charged you at their 'going rate' which includes staff, staff overheads, tools, electricity, garage space, paperwork, card costs, etc. If you don't say "I want that boat" without asking the price, you could pay £100 or £10M! If the price is important to you, you ask.
    • RoonilWazlib
    • By RoonilWazlib 16th Mar 17, 10:39 AM
    • 141 Posts
    • 92 Thanks
    RoonilWazlib
    • #3
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:39 AM
    • #3
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:39 AM
    Where no price is agreed, the law would say it should be a reasonable price.
    If you feel it isn't the onus would be on you to show this is an unreasonable price for the work.
    • gardner1
    • By gardner1 16th Mar 17, 10:44 AM
    • 2,119 Posts
    • 3,009 Thanks
    gardner1
    • #4
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:44 AM
    • #4
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:44 AM
    your first and biggest mistake was going to Halfrauds next time try a local independent garage
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 16th Mar 17, 1:23 PM
    • 11,146 Posts
    • 8,397 Thanks
    unholyangel
    • #5
    • 16th Mar 17, 1:23 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Mar 17, 1:23 PM
    Where no price is agreed, the law would say it should be a reasonable price.
    If you feel it isn't the onus would be on you to show this is an unreasonable price for the work.
    Originally posted by RoonilWazlib
    The law actually changed with the CCRs

    9.—(1) Before the consumer is bound by an on-premises contract, the trader must give or make available to the consumer the information described in Schedule 1 in a clear and comprehensible manner, if that information is not already apparent from the context.


    ......(from schedule 1)

    (c)the total price of the goods or services inclusive of taxes, or where the nature of the goods or services is such that the price cannot reasonably be calculated in advance, the manner in which the price is to be calculated;
    So if they were unsure how long exactly it would take and could not give a fixed price, they should have advised op it would be £x per hour at a estimate of x hours.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 16th Mar 17, 1:29 PM
    • 3,034 Posts
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    DoaM
    • #6
    • 16th Mar 17, 1:29 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Mar 17, 1:29 PM
    That's what they should have done. The point being made though is that Halfords didn't give an hourly rate until afterwards. So what happens in that case? Do Halfords still hold a lien over the vehicle?

    IMHO it would now be the OP's task to either pay it or negotiate a lower rate. To get a lower rate then OP would need to get an idea of the "going rate" in OP's area.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 16th Mar 17, 1:55 PM
    • 11,146 Posts
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    unholyangel
    • #7
    • 16th Mar 17, 1:55 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Mar 17, 1:55 PM
    That's what they should have done. The point being made though is that Halfords didn't give an hourly rate until afterwards. So what happens in that case? Do Halfords still hold a lien over the vehicle?

    IMHO it would now be the OP's task to either pay it or negotiate a lower rate. To get a lower rate then OP would need to get an idea of the "going rate" in OP's area.
    Originally posted by DoaM

    9.—(1) Before the consumer is bound by an on-premises contract, the trader must give or make available to the consumer the information described in Schedule 1 in a clear and comprehensible manner, if that information is not already apparent from the context.
    Now that could be interpreted at least two ways. One that the information needs to be supplied before the moment the contract becomes binding. The other is that the contract doesn't become binding until that information is provided.

    With nothing indicating what the effect of failure to comply is, I'm leaning towards the latter.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • GCMatthews2000
    • By GCMatthews2000 16th Mar 17, 7:29 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    GCMatthews2000
    • #8
    • 16th Mar 17, 7:29 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Mar 17, 7:29 PM
    Thanks for this. They offerred me £50 to shut up (the total cost was £192) so I am now quoting the CCR at them and lets see what they say. They should not have this practice of only quoting hours at people and I think they should change their entire practice.
    • GCMatthews2000
    • By GCMatthews2000 16th Mar 17, 7:39 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    GCMatthews2000
    • #9
    • 16th Mar 17, 7:39 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Mar 17, 7:39 PM
    What the CCR says as far as a remedy goes is that every contract a trader enters into assumes that compliance with the CCR is a term of the contract. So if they don't comply, then either the contract is void (if a condition of contract, going to the heart of the contract) or can sue for damages (if less serious). In my case, it is a condition, so I will argue the contract is void and they better give me a refund in full AND change their working procedures for whole country.
    • Marktheshark
    • By Marktheshark 16th Mar 17, 7:41 PM
    • 5,542 Posts
    • 6,963 Thanks
    Marktheshark
    I would get the work checked as well.
    Brexit will become whatever they invent it to be.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 16th Mar 17, 8:07 PM
    • 15,098 Posts
    • 20,504 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    Thanks for this. They offerred me £50 to shut up (the total cost was £192) so I am now quoting the CCR at them and lets see what they say. They should not have this practice of only quoting hours at people and I think they should change their entire practice.
    Originally posted by GCMatthews2000
    An independent mechanic would charge around £50/hour. The likes of a Renault dealer are around £140/hour, and BMW about £120/hour as a comparison, so the £88/hour isn't THAT bad!!

    (So be careful what you demand, as you might struggle to prove their price being unreasonable...)

    What was this 'job'???
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 16th Mar 17, 8:23 PM
    • 2,180 Posts
    • 1,767 Thanks
    naedanger
    What the CCR says as far as a remedy goes is that every contract a trader enters into assumes that compliance with the CCR is a term of the contract. So if they don't comply, then either the contract is void (if a condition of contract, going to the heart of the contract) or can sue for damages (if less serious). In my case, it is a condition, so I will argue the contract is void and they better give me a refund in full AND change their working procedures for whole country.
    Originally posted by GCMatthews2000
    If your argument is contested I think you will find it difficult to maintain the breach goes to the heart of the contract.

    If you could show you could get the work done for a lower price elsewhere then I would have thought it would be relatively easy to argue the difference was a loss. (Since had they disclosed the required pricing information you would have gone elsewhere.)

    Alternatively you might be able to argue the difference over what you consider a reasonable price is you damages (especially if the work was cosmetic or optional when you could argue would not have proceeded had the cost been higher that what you thought was reasonable).
    • NCC-1701
    • By NCC-1701 16th Mar 17, 8:35 PM
    • 164 Posts
    • 259 Thanks
    NCC-1701
    OP if the contract is void are you going to allow Halfords to put you back in the position you were in before they carried out the repair?
    • GCMatthews2000
    • By GCMatthews2000 17th Mar 17, 11:01 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    GCMatthews2000
    OK well lets see what happens, will keep you all informed.....
    • GCMatthews2000
    • By GCMatthews2000 17th Mar 17, 1:00 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    GCMatthews2000
    yes because they didn't actually do any repair, they charged £192 to tell me what the problem was
    • Shaka_Zulu
    • By Shaka_Zulu 17th Mar 17, 1:23 PM
    • 814 Posts
    • 1,855 Thanks
    Shaka_Zulu
    A fool and his money.........................
    ‘I’m not in favour of this new-age drippiness’ JRM
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 17th Mar 17, 3:49 PM
    • 2,982 Posts
    • 3,616 Thanks
    martinsurrey
    So if they were unsure how long exactly it would take and could not give a fixed price, they should have advised op it would be £x per hour at a estimate of x hours.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    as you quoted it does say "make available", without defining what that means, but I doubt it means spoon feeding.

    OP did they give you any terms and conditions when you left your car, did they give you any bits of paper when you left your car?

    Did they have a price list in a clear position in the garage?
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 17th Mar 17, 8:39 PM
    • 13,001 Posts
    • 8,226 Thanks
    arcon5
    £88 per hour... going rate about £50ph.
    1.6hours about £56 or thereabouts.
    They've offer £50 so your arguing over peanuts really.

    Especially considering their fees could potentially be justified as being in line with other national dealerships offering like for like services.
    • GCMatthews2000
    • By GCMatthews2000 20th Mar 17, 8:14 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    GCMatthews2000
    no, because it is a point of law. they can't offer to contract on the basis of hours. they have to provide total cost. see Consumer Contract Regulations 2013
    • GCMatthews2000
    • By GCMatthews2000 20th Mar 17, 8:16 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    GCMatthews2000
    ....................... is protected by consumer contracts regulations! I don't know why trolls bother to come on these sits, you not got anything better to do?
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