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  • FIRST POST
    • OneInTheHat
    • By OneInTheHat 16th Mar 17, 9:08 AM
    • 13Posts
    • 5Thanks
    OneInTheHat
    Demonising Diesel - should I get rid of my Diesel or stick with it
    • #1
    • 16th Mar 17, 9:08 AM
    Demonising Diesel - should I get rid of my Diesel or stick with it 16th Mar 17 at 9:08 AM
    I am very !!!!ed off (to put it mildly) with the government announcements around diesel cars. I have a 2014 diesel Volvo which I love. I live in London and I do drive into central London in the congestion charging zone. My congestion charge will be doubling. Though my council is yet to announce that they will penalise me - I understand Merton council is levying an extra charge on diesel cars for parking permits and I am sure my council won't be far behind them. It seems they will use every method to squeeze more money out of me. I even heard that some areas are going to ban diesels!

    I only bought a diesel as at the time, the government incentivised me to do so!

    I've seen they may propose some sort of scrappage scheme (the £3500 bandied around) but I'm not a low earner and if it was means tested, it's unlikely to apply to me and my car is worth around £16k!

    As mentioned, I'm not a car person and a bit unsure what to do now. Apparently all these announcements are destroying the market for 2nd hand diesels so I'm unlikely to achieve a good price. Do I just suck it up and therefore pay more and hope that they don't decide to ban diesels completely from London? Or should I sell now while I can and accept that at least I will be getting something rather than a lot less should any more decisions to impact diesels be taken?
Page 1
    • OneInTheHat
    • By OneInTheHat 16th Mar 17, 9:16 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    OneInTheHat
    • #2
    • 16th Mar 17, 9:16 AM
    • #2
    • 16th Mar 17, 9:16 AM
    btw I know the congestion charge increase is for older diesel cars (think it's pre 2005) but it won't be long before they make it apply to newer ones - I'm just trying to think ahead
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 16th Mar 17, 9:27 AM
    • 9,223 Posts
    • 6,231 Thanks
    neilmcl
    • #3
    • 16th Mar 17, 9:27 AM
    • #3
    • 16th Mar 17, 9:27 AM
    Why not ask yourself whether you actually needed a diesel in the first place. What's your annual mileage and what sort of journeys do you make?

    I wouldn't be too concerned just yet, it'll probably take a good 5 years or more before the real pain for diesel car owners starts to hit.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 16th Mar 17, 9:28 AM
    • 442 Posts
    • 439 Thanks
    Aylesbury Duck
    • #4
    • 16th Mar 17, 9:28 AM
    • #4
    • 16th Mar 17, 9:28 AM
    Stick with it. I'm a diesel owner and whilst I would probably buy petrol next time (due to my mileage patterns nowadays), I'm not going to start swapping cars on the strength of the latest concerns.

    You say you bought a diesel because you were incentivised to do so. You've had the benefit of the lower tax and better economy (perhaps) that were presumably the benefits you saw when you purchased it?

    I don't have much sympathy with the argument that the government is to blame for your purchasing decision. I don't know many people that slavishly buy cars of the type the government tells them to, and the knowledge and data of diesel emissions is not exactly new. Harmful emission types and levels from diesels have been known about for years and it was foreseeable that at some point, they would become a problem. We've had the economic benefit from diesel ownership (despite knowing of the environmental effects of diesel consumption), so now it's time to pay some of that back if we want to improve the air quality levels in towns and cities.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 16th Mar 17, 9:30 AM
    • 1,740 Posts
    • 1,082 Thanks
    Car 54
    • #5
    • 16th Mar 17, 9:30 AM
    • #5
    • 16th Mar 17, 9:30 AM
    I am very !!!!ed off (to put it mildly) with the government announcements around diesel cars.

    I only bought a diesel as at the time, the government incentivised me to do so!
    Originally posted by OneInTheHat
    Swings and roundabouts?
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 16th Mar 17, 9:35 AM
    • 10,900 Posts
    • 6,062 Thanks
    Strider590
    • #6
    • 16th Mar 17, 9:35 AM
    • #6
    • 16th Mar 17, 9:35 AM
    I am very !!!!ed off (to put it mildly) with the government announcements around diesel cars. I have a 2014 diesel Volvo which I love. I live in London and I do drive into central London in the congestion charging zone. My congestion charge will be doubling. Though my council is yet to announce that they will penalise me - I understand Merton council is levying an extra charge on diesel cars for parking permits and I am sure my council won't be far behind them. It seems they will use every method to squeeze more money out of me. I even heard that some areas are going to ban diesels!

    I only bought a diesel as at the time, the government incentivised me to do so!
    Originally posted by OneInTheHat
    No they did not, they did this in 2008-2010, when the automotive industry was at the mercy of the recession. It was a bid to rescue an industry that generates billions of £ in VAT every year and to save jobs (which generates billions of £ in income taxes).

    The Diesel thing carried on mostly because people put too much faith in car salesmen and gossip. It seems to take a long time for car myths to die out.

    In truth for low mileage and/or city driving a diesel is a very costly choice, because it'll struggle to regen it's DPF, which will then block up and cost you £1000+ to fix.

    As for your vehicles value, it will have taken a hit, it used to be that a diesel would sell for more than a petrol, but now they're quite even on the used market. If you sell now you can take advantage of the fact that many people still think of diesels the way you did, I would say it'll be another few years before this really starts to hit home and people start to shy away from diesel cars.
    Having the last word isn't the same as being right.......

    "Never confuse education with intelligence"
    • OneInTheHat
    • By OneInTheHat 16th Mar 17, 10:05 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    OneInTheHat
    • #7
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:05 AM
    • #7
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:05 AM
    the VED is done on CO2 and the diesels are more efficient in this. And the government introduced it this way. Previous company I worked at had company cars and all were diesel. It's something that was encouraged for a number of years (whether by car salesman or whoever....).

    yes it's more efficient for me etc but my driving patterns may change in the future (depending on my job) so I may have needed to sell it anyway. What I don't want is to be in a position where I can't get a reasonable selling price if they keep introducing more measures to penalise diesel owners.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 16th Mar 17, 10:14 AM
    • 442 Posts
    • 439 Thanks
    Aylesbury Duck
    • #8
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:14 AM
    • #8
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:14 AM
    the VED is done on CO2 and the diesels are more efficient in this. And the government introduced it this way. Previous company I worked at had company cars and all were diesel. It's something that was encouraged for a number of years (whether by car salesman or whoever....).

    yes it's more efficient for me etc but my driving patterns may change in the future (depending on my job) so I may have needed to sell it anyway. What I don't want is to be in a position where I can't get a reasonable selling price if they keep introducing more measures to penalise diesel owners.
    Originally posted by OneInTheHat
    Sell now then. If selling price is important to you, sell now. No one can say what will definitely happen to used diesel prices, but at best they'll hold up and it's likely they'll fall. More penalising measures will come, they cannot ignore the effects of diesel pollution and miss the opportunity to tax it.
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 16th Mar 17, 10:21 AM
    • 10,900 Posts
    • 6,062 Thanks
    Strider590
    • #9
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:21 AM
    • #9
    • 16th Mar 17, 10:21 AM
    the VED is done on CO2 and the diesels are more efficient in this. And the government introduced it this way.
    Originally posted by OneInTheHat
    They obsoletely did during 2008-2010 (ish) and they knew exactly what they were doing.
    Having the last word isn't the same as being right.......

    "Never confuse education with intelligence"
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 16th Mar 17, 10:23 AM
    • 3,916 Posts
    • 2,149 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    No they did not, they did this in 2008-2010, when the automotive industry was at the mercy of the recession. It was a bid to rescue an industry that generates billions of £ in VAT every year and to save jobs (which generates billions of £ in income taxes).

    The Diesel thing carried on mostly because people put too much faith in car salesmen and gossip. It seems to take a long time for car myths to die out.
    .
    Originally posted by Strider590
    The government offered incentives for diesel sales by dropping VED in 2001 for low CO2 cars which diesels are - hence the number going from around 3.45m to over 8m - while VED is done on CO2 for environmental reasons without considering NOx for health reasons it seems cheaper for your average motorist because of the higher mpg.

    Agreed that the DPF issue and low mileage driving means diesels are being sold to do something they aren't supposed to. I have a 2014 diesel, I'll keep it until I run it into the ground, probably in 7-8 years. I like the £20 VED and I use it on motorways regularly with good runs so hopefully DPF will be ok
    • OneInTheHat
    • By OneInTheHat 16th Mar 17, 10:34 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    OneInTheHat
    thanks everyone. I'm a single mum and it's been worrying me so all your posts have been very useful.
    • laidbackgjr
    • By laidbackgjr 16th Mar 17, 11:15 AM
    • 435 Posts
    • 1,124 Thanks
    laidbackgjr
    I'll pay you some compensation for the loss of value of your diesel if you pay the same amount of compensation to me for driving a petrol for the last 10 years paying higher tax and now finding out that because the petrol engine generates less harmful particulates it's the cleaner car and should have had the tax the other way round!
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 16th Mar 17, 11:48 AM
    • 14,490 Posts
    • 7,953 Thanks
    motorguy
    I am very !!!!ed off (to put it mildly) with the government announcements around diesel cars. I have a 2014 diesel Volvo which I love. I live in London and I do drive into central London in the congestion charging zone. My congestion charge will be doubling. Though my council is yet to announce that they will penalise me - I understand Merton council is levying an extra charge on diesel cars for parking permits and I am sure my council won't be far behind them. It seems they will use every method to squeeze more money out of me. I even heard that some areas are going to ban diesels!

    I only bought a diesel as at the time, the government incentivised me to do so!

    I've seen they may propose some sort of scrappage scheme (the £3500 bandied around) but I'm not a low earner and if it was means tested, it's unlikely to apply to me and my car is worth around £16k!

    As mentioned, I'm not a car person and a bit unsure what to do now. Apparently all these announcements are destroying the market for 2nd hand diesels so I'm unlikely to achieve a good price. Do I just suck it up and therefore pay more and hope that they don't decide to ban diesels completely from London? Or should I sell now while I can and accept that at least I will be getting something rather than a lot less should any more decisions to impact diesels be taken?
    Originally posted by OneInTheHat
    Are they? Who says? (other than car salesmen trying to devalue your car because it suits them to say it)
    Regards

    Paul
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 16th Mar 17, 11:55 AM
    • 14,490 Posts
    • 7,953 Thanks
    motorguy
    thanks everyone. I'm a single mum and it's been worrying me so all your posts have been very useful.
    Originally posted by OneInTheHat
    Personally, i would drive on at it.

    Changing your car for the sake of it will cost you £,£££s
    Regards

    Paul
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 16th Mar 17, 12:08 PM
    • 10,900 Posts
    • 6,062 Thanks
    Strider590
    Personally, i would drive on at it.

    Changing your car for the sake of it will cost you £,£££s
    Originally posted by motorguy
    It's a 2, maybe 3 year old car, I would hazard a guess it's on finance/pcp AND/OR that the OP would have been changing it soon anyway.
    Having the last word isn't the same as being right.......

    "Never confuse education with intelligence"
    • giraffe69
    • By giraffe69 16th Mar 17, 12:20 PM
    • 2,067 Posts
    • 1,827 Thanks
    giraffe69
    I've got a diesel. Its just over two years old so unaffected by the proposed measures for older diesels. I drive enough miles to make it a sensible choice. When I change my car(not yet) I would consider the best deal on petrol or diesel or even hybrid. I think the current diesel scare stories are a bit overdone including quite a few newspapers unable to distinguish between newer and older diesels in favour of a scare headline.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 16th Mar 17, 1:11 PM
    • 14,490 Posts
    • 7,953 Thanks
    motorguy
    It's a 2, maybe 3 year old car, I would hazard a guess it's on finance/pcp AND/OR that the OP would have been changing it soon anyway.
    Originally posted by Strider590
    Hmmm.. thats not how the original post read to me. It reads like should i sell my diesel car now when the going is still reasonably good, or should i drive on at it?

    Surely "should my next car be petrol or diesel" would have been more apt if what your suggesting is the case?
    Last edited by motorguy; 16-03-2017 at 1:15 PM.
    Regards

    Paul
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 16th Mar 17, 1:14 PM
    • 14,490 Posts
    • 7,953 Thanks
    motorguy
    I've got a diesel. Its just over two years old so unaffected by the proposed measures for older diesels. I drive enough miles to make it a sensible choice. When I change my car(not yet) I would consider the best deal on petrol or diesel or even hybrid. I think the current diesel scare stories are a bit overdone including quite a few newspapers unable to distinguish between newer and older diesels in favour of a scare headline.
    Originally posted by giraffe69
    Exactly.

    Newspapers know it makes good headlines for them. Lets be honest its the press drumming up the doom and gloom attitude to diesel, that the councils / government will then use as an excuse to up taxes in some way, and thus it all becomes self-fulfilling.

    This past five years or so i've only run a diesel if it has been a requirement because of high mileage. Too many big bill risks for me to want to drive one purely out of preference (which i did with the couple of BMW 535ds i had)
    Regards

    Paul
    • seatbeltnoob
    • By seatbeltnoob 16th Mar 17, 11:57 PM
    • 159 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    seatbeltnoob
    typical car owner.

    Buys a brand new diesel car over a petrol for £20K because they could save £300 per annum on fuel.

    Then wants to sell said diesel which they bought for £20K becauce the residents parking and road tax is going up £100 a year.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 17th Mar 17, 6:37 AM
    • 14,490 Posts
    • 7,953 Thanks
    motorguy
    typical car owner.

    Buys a brand new diesel car over a petrol for £20K because they could save £300 per annum on fuel.

    Then wants to sell said diesel which they bought for £20K becauce the residents parking and road tax is going up £100 a year.
    Originally posted by seatbeltnoob
    I think you're being harsh.

    The O/P wasnt asking about currently - they are concerned about what might happen in the future relative to the bottom dropping out of the market for diesels.
    Regards

    Paul
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