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  • FIRST POST
    • Leannerobson2002
    • By Leannerobson2002 15th Mar 17, 6:42 PM
    • 10Posts
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    Leannerobson2002
    Private car sale....now being taken to small claims court
    • #1
    • 15th Mar 17, 6:42 PM
    Private car sale....now being taken to small claims court 15th Mar 17 at 6:42 PM
    I recently sold a car privately (my partner is a Mechanic and we sold a car that was roadworthy but they are now saying it wasn't after 2 days)
    The buyer wavered the right to have it inspected
    She had a test drive
    Asked a few questions
    The car was describes exactly how was it was on that day.
    She knocked down the price I accepted £1800 for a 2008 vauxhall Zafira.
    She then drove 30 miles home all fine.
    After 2 days it had problems of which we were unaware of.
    We recieved a letter had we didn't exchange number.
    My partner called her and was told a reputable garage had redeemed the car unroadworthy and something wrong with injectors. A very brief explanation of the problem was given and she wanted all her money back as it would cost £1500 to repair.
    My partner asked for a garage report she didn't have one and refused to give him the name of the garage that looked at the car, so he could ring them and find out exactly what was wrong with the car. She refused.
    He suggested a second opinion from a mobile mechanic she said she had no money.
    He tried to help but was given no real explanation so he couldn't do anything. As a private seller he didn't even have to.ring the buyer really, but we sold the car in genuine good faith and it's really unfortunate for the buyer that faults have occurred 2 days after the sale.
    The car had MOT till November 2017
    It had just been for recalls checks done by a vauxhall garage and was driven by them and us prior to sale.

    We.have recieved small claims court proceedings
    We have defended the claim and sent off evidence of advert and vauxhall recall check sheet.
    Also.my partner rang vauxhall and asked how much would it be to fix the vague alledged problems with.'injectors' they said no more than £800 for all four. And it is very unlikely that all 4 would need replacing at the same time.
    Does she stand to.win if she hasn't got a engineer report from.the garage?
    It's really beginning to worry us as we sold the car in good faith.
    Anyone got previous experience in dealing with this sort of case?
Page 3
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 17th Mar 17, 8:48 PM
    • 12,901 Posts
    • 8,148 Thanks
    arcon5
    Your defence is overly long and a lot of its content is either unnecessary or could be summarised.
    • susancs
    • By susancs 18th Mar 17, 2:38 PM
    • 3,773 Posts
    • 3,638 Thanks
    susancs
    I said from the start it was our family car he's a Mechanic I just did the sale as he was at work
    Just because he's a Mechanic doesn't make him able to predict faults
    You can buy a brand new car drivers off the fore court and something can happen, the difference is you have a warranty and can obviously bring the car back.
    Originally posted by Robbo2305
    Are you replying on behalf of the OP, as the OP has a different user name?
    • susancs
    • By susancs 18th Mar 17, 2:40 PM
    • 3,773 Posts
    • 3,638 Thanks
    susancs
    Your defence is overly long and a lot of its content is either unnecessary or could be summarised.
    Originally posted by arcon5
    I agree with you. OP, the courts have a limited time to read and understand the main points of your defence, so it needs to be concise and to the point.
    • Marktheshark
    • By Marktheshark 18th Mar 17, 2:49 PM
    • 5,514 Posts
    • 6,908 Thanks
    Marktheshark
    I am afraid your letter of reply to her has shot you straight in the foot.
    All she has to stick to is she never mentioned injectors to you and you are as the saying goes, stuffed.

    You can not be an expert witness to your own defence but you can make an admission about selling the car with a known fault which you concealed .
    Brexit will become whatever they invent it to be.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 18th Mar 17, 3:20 PM
    • 2,085 Posts
    • 1,618 Thanks
    naedanger
    I am afraid your letter of reply to her has shot you straight in the foot.
    All she has to stick to is she never mentioned injectors to you and you are as the saying goes, stuffed.
    Originally posted by Marktheshark
    How does that mean the op is stuffed? At worst the judge will know that they cannot both (seller and customer) be right and one might be lying. It does not mean the judge will automatically believe the customer.


    To the op:
    I suggest you check the initial advert carefully e.g. did you say anything like "in excellent condition" or "in great condition" etc? If you did then the customer may argue that it was not in that condition and so misdescribed. If you did say anything about the condition being very good it does not mean your case is lost. Just that you may have a slightly higher hurdle to meet.

    I think your defence seems ok. Although long, in my view, it is sufficiently clear and most of the detail is worth keeping in except for some sentences near the end. (I would omit the paragraph begining "From personal experience .... " as it sounds like you are telling the judge how to do their job, and the sentences "I do hope she goes to a reputable garage ..." and "I hope this will be the end of the matter").
    • Robbo2305
    • By Robbo2305 18th Mar 17, 3:48 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Robbo2305
    Hi
    I've changed my user name.
    So the defence I wrote I know is extremely lengthy but as this is all new to us we just wanted to include all the events and what was said exactly as I remembered it. I'm now waiting for a initial court date as we have recieved notice of allocation to our local court. My next defence if requested, and what we will say in court i can assure you will be short concise and to the point, and I'll take note not be condensing to the judge, not what I meant to do but I can understand how that may sound.
    The claimant used the words 'injector gone bad' in her claim form that was sent to us so she can't deny saying that.
    My advert had picture of car
    Miles
    MOT till November 2017
    Colour
    Petrol
    Recall checks done by vauxhall
    7 seater
    Great family car
    £2000 ono
    And that was the exact description.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 18th Mar 17, 4:26 PM
    • 2,085 Posts
    • 1,618 Thanks
    naedanger
    Hi
    I've changed my user name.
    So the defence I wrote I know is extremely lengthy but as this is all new to us we just wanted to include all the events and what was said exactly as I remembered it. I'm now waiting for a initial court date as we have recieved notice of allocation to our local court. My next defence if requested, and what we will say in court i can assure you will be short concise and to the point, and I'll take note not be condensing to the judge, not what I meant to do but I can understand how that may sound.
    The claimant used the words 'injector gone bad' in her claim form that was sent to us so she can't deny saying that.
    My advert had picture of car
    Miles
    MOT till November 2017
    Colour
    Petrol
    Recall checks done by vauxhall
    7 seater
    Great family car
    £2000 ono
    And that was the exact description.
    Originally posted by Robbo2305
    I wouldn't worry about the presentation of your defence. Lawyers are used to reading ring-binders full of papers so your defence is actually brief. I think what is more important is that the information is well ordered, and your case is - it follows a clear timeline. Indeed I would be careful not to exclude too much detail for the sake of brevity as I think that might be a mistake. (You wouldn't want your argument to get lost in the detail, but your argument is very simple - the car was as described and roadworthy when it was sold.)
    Last edited by naedanger; 18-03-2017 at 4:31 PM.
    • Marktheshark
    • By Marktheshark 18th Mar 17, 9:45 PM
    • 5,514 Posts
    • 6,908 Thanks
    Marktheshark
    Were you the registered keeper at the time of sale and how long have you owned the car as keeper if this is the case.
    Brexit will become whatever they invent it to be.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 19th Mar 17, 12:55 PM
    • 1,080 Posts
    • 1,081 Thanks
    waamo
    Were you the registered keeper at the time of sale and how long have you owned the car as keeper if this is the case.
    Originally posted by Marktheshark
    From earlier posts the OPs mechanic partner was the registered keeper. They owned the car for about 6 months.
    This space for hire.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 19th Mar 17, 1:25 PM
    • 14,853 Posts
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    pinkshoes
    Just a thought...

    As Zafira's have a dodgy history of catching fire, this could be buyer's remorse...

    Or, hubby tells me that all four injectors could 'go bad' if they put the wrong fuel in.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • Robbo2305
    • By Robbo2305 19th Mar 17, 2:15 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    Robbo2305
    Yes that's what the safety recall was for at the vauxhall garage. It was checked and fine and the buyer was given the relevant paper work.
    Also ....yes my partner had as said she could have put diesel in it and that's what would happen to the injectors! We just didn't know if we should go down the route of mentioning that and blaming it on her with out having evidence of this.
    We have not been in contact with the buyer except for one phone call after we recieved a letter from her. We have just filled in the forms sent by the small courts money claims department.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 19th Mar 17, 3:31 PM
    • 14,853 Posts
    • 20,060 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    Yes that's what the safety recall was for at the vauxhall garage. It was checked and fine and the buyer was given the relevant paper work.
    Also ....yes my partner had as said she could have put diesel in it and that's what would happen to the injectors! We just didn't know if we should go down the route of mentioning that and blaming it on her with out having evidence of this.
    We have not been in contact with the buyer except for one phone call after we recieved a letter from her. We have just filled in the forms sent by the small courts money claims department.
    Originally posted by Robbo2305
    Might be worth doing some research on any other reasons that all four injectors could fail other than fuel contamination.

    As she drove it home with no issues, this would prove that it was her that put the wrong fuel in...

    Is this a diesel zafira?
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 19th Mar 17, 4:17 PM
    • 2,030 Posts
    • 1,928 Thanks
    DoaM
    Is this a diesel zafira?
    Originally posted by pinkshoes
    On that note - the vehicle wasn't inadvertently advertised as the wrong fuel type, was it?
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Robbo2305
    • By Robbo2305 19th Mar 17, 4:39 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Robbo2305
    No definitely not its a petrol and the advert which I still have a copy of says Petrol.
    And yes we have looked at symptoms of 'bad injectors' and we have never been aware of any signs or symptoms that would lead us to believe that they were any problems with the injectors.
    But also from previous posts I have said we rang vauxhall and to replace all.injectors they quoted a price around £700-800 which is half of what she said the garage had quoted her! That's why we are suspicious that she's even been to a garage at all. It's as if she has plucked the figure of £1500 to fix alledged problem out of thin air!
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