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  • FIRST POST
    • AndyPix
    • By AndyPix 15th Mar 17, 4:54 PM
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    AndyPix
    ISP Censorship
    • #1
    • 15th Mar 17, 4:54 PM
    ISP Censorship 15th Mar 17 at 4:54 PM
    Hi Guys


    Has anyone else read this info with a bit of trepidation ??


    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/14/uk_new_realtime_live_server_blocking_order/


    It seems to me this is an initial test of real-time censorship , which is a sad day for the internet
    Running with scissors since 1978
Page 2
    • AndyPix
    • By AndyPix 16th Mar 17, 10:54 AM
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    AndyPix
    ^^ Here here - Great post
    Running with scissors since 1978
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 16th Mar 17, 11:08 AM
    • 9,499 Posts
    • 7,088 Thanks
    GunJack
    In theory, if they start looking to limit VPNs across the network in some mass way, that's homeworking, remote working, off-site working all scuppered - will other businesses/institutions put up with this? Of course not.... for example, I visit one of my employer's main sites with a direct connection onto the company network maybe 2-3 times a year, all the rest of the time i access by VPN...

    I really think this could be the start of a very steep and slippery slope
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 16th Mar 17, 11:43 AM
    • 9,284 Posts
    • 3,771 Thanks
    JJ Egan
    I just asked an IPTV supplier .
    Response not bothered we have multiple servers .
    • AndyPix
    • By AndyPix 16th Mar 17, 11:48 AM
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    AndyPix
    ^^ The point is that the ISP's have been given blanket authority to block these servers at will.
    They dont have to apply for court order for each one .. Its up to them !!


    So they could quite easily detect and block these multiple servers ..


    It will be interesting to see how this pans out . It is a "test case" in the court. And if successful it could set a worrying precedent
    Running with scissors since 1978
    • Uxb
    • By Uxb 16th Mar 17, 12:48 PM
    • 864 Posts
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    Uxb
    In theory, if they start looking to limit VPNs across the network in some mass way, that's homeworking, remote working, off-site working all scuppered
    Originally posted by GunJack
    So just make VPN only allowable on (the more expensive) business lines/packages plus an extra monthly fee on top.
    Payable of course against providing a company number at sign up.
    Should 'sort out' the majority.

    ....and the blame for all for this
    Firmly at the door of those who refuse to pay for copyrighted material and will seemingly do anything to get it for free no matter how cheap is the real thing .
    • bingo bango
    • By bingo bango 16th Mar 17, 12:55 PM
    • 2,439 Posts
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    bingo bango
    So just make VPN only allowable on (the more expensive) business lines/packages plus an extra monthly fee on top.
    Payable of course against providing a company number at sign up.
    Should 'sort out' the majority.


    ....and the blame for all for this
    Firmly at the door of those who refuse to pay for copyrighted material and will seemingly do anything to get it for free no matter how cheap is the real thing .
    Originally posted by Uxb
    Good to see that you are coming out in support of those who use VPN to highlight oppression to those outside their home countries. And the civil rights organisations who use VPN to check on the wellbeing of activists worldwide.

    Oh wait.....you're not.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 16th Mar 17, 1:12 PM
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    unholyangel
    I think this is worse when you realise that streaming is not illegal (at least for the users of the service) as ruled by the EU courts.

    Why are the courts not also issuing bans on servers where scam websites are hosted or other crimes committed? Our system is effectively being used to protect profits over people.

    And we're basically being censored from services that can be used legally (streaming, p2p etc) all because the industry won't evolve with the times.

    The one problem they have is assuming everyone who uses these services would otherwise be a customer paying their premium prices. I suspect the actual cost to the industry is only a fraction of what is claimed.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • were
    • By were 16th Mar 17, 1:22 PM
    • 311 Posts
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    were
    the cycle probably will be that the big players like Sky, BT will loose subscription to smaller, possibly more expensive players who have no invested interest in TV.

    Unfortunately these small players will eventually be seen as a good investment by big players and get bought out.... a bit like BeThere, whom in their heyday were on the very pricey side of being cost effective, but operated a virtually faultless service, with no limits or bother and had happy customers - I was one.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 16th Mar 17, 1:40 PM
    • 2,273 Posts
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    DoaM
    a bit like BeThere, whom in their heyday were on the very pricey side of being cost effective, but operated a virtually faultless service, with no limits or bother and had happy customers - I was one.
    Originally posted by were
    As was I ... and good times they were too. Yes it was ADSL2+, but I got 18 meg down and 1.3 meg up; not far off what TalkTalk and Plusnet fibre packages offer now.

    I jumped ship after they were bought out by Sky but just before their service formally closed.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 16th Mar 17, 1:41 PM
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    DoaM
    The one problem they have is assuming everyone who uses these services would otherwise be a customer paying their premium prices. I suspect the actual cost to the industry is only a fraction of what is claimed.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    And that's the logical fallacy that they keep perpetuating, and is probably what they made the judge believe.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 16th Mar 17, 3:01 PM
    • 9,499 Posts
    • 7,088 Thanks
    GunJack
    So just make VPN only allowable on (the more expensive) business lines/packages plus an extra monthly fee on top.
    Payable of course against providing a company number at sign up.
    Should 'sort out' the majority.
    Originally posted by Uxb
    So are you saying I'd have to pay for a Business service at home, just to cover the times I work from home and need to use the Company-provided VPN??

    Jog On........
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......
    • dipsomaniac
    • By dipsomaniac 16th Mar 17, 4:23 PM
    • 5,496 Posts
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    dipsomaniac
    ..and the blame for all for this
    Firmly at the door of those who refuse to pay for copyrighted material and will seemingly do anything to get it for free no matter how cheap is the real thing .
    Originally posted by Uxb
    are you rupert murdoch? i take it you have never used a library.

    i am not a soccer supporter but when you have a crazy situation where the rest of the world can watch a sat 3pm game but a local supporter can't you are always going to find people looking for ways to correct the injustice
    Last edited by dipsomaniac; 16-03-2017 at 4:28 PM.
    "The Holy Writ of Gloucester Rugby Club demands: first, that the forwards shall win the ball; second, that the forwards shall keep the ball; and third, the backs shall buy the beer." - Doug Ibbotson
    • Uxb
    • By Uxb 16th Mar 17, 5:26 PM
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    Uxb
    are you rupert murdoch? i take it you have never used a library.
    Originally posted by dipsomaniac
    I take it then that you have never heard of the money that authors get when their works are borrowed form a library - if the said authors sign up for it?
    • Uxb
    • By Uxb 16th Mar 17, 5:26 PM
    • 864 Posts
    • 929 Thanks
    Uxb
    So are you saying I'd have to pay for a Business service at home, just to cover the times I work from home and need to use the Company-provided VPN??
    .
    Originally posted by GunJack
    You've got it
    • Uxb
    • By Uxb 16th Mar 17, 5:35 PM
    • 864 Posts
    • 929 Thanks
    Uxb
    The one problem they have is assuming everyone who uses these services would otherwise be a customer paying their premium prices. I suspect the actual cost to the industry is only a fraction of what is claimed.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    I'll remember that one the next time I take a train.
    The train is clearly going to the destination anyway - so clearly my extra as a passenger is not actually costing them hardly anything at all so the cost is just a minute fraction of the charge.
    Perhaps we should all start not paying for train tickets.......

    Actually the same applies to virtually any business. The actual cost of physically doing a job is quite small compare to the real charge levied on the consumer.
    • dipsomaniac
    • By dipsomaniac 16th Mar 17, 6:11 PM
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    dipsomaniac
    I take it then that you have never heard of the money that authors get when their works are borrowed form a library - if the said authors sign up for it?
    Originally posted by Uxb
    i didn't think authors got paid everytime the book was borrowed. i thought the library paid once for the book and then shared it x amount of times. much like any other content shared online.
    Last edited by dipsomaniac; 16-03-2017 at 6:15 PM.
    "The Holy Writ of Gloucester Rugby Club demands: first, that the forwards shall win the ball; second, that the forwards shall keep the ball; and third, the backs shall buy the beer." - Doug Ibbotson
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 16th Mar 17, 6:56 PM
    • 10,713 Posts
    • 7,934 Thanks
    unholyangel
    I'll remember that one the next time I take a train.
    The train is clearly going to the destination anyway - so clearly my extra as a passenger is not actually costing them hardly anything at all so the cost is just a minute fraction of the charge.
    Perhaps we should all start not paying for train tickets.......

    Actually the same applies to virtually any business. The actual cost of physically doing a job is quite small compare to the real charge levied on the consumer.
    Originally posted by Uxb
    Eh? At no point did I mention anything about justifying illegal downloads. The focus was purely on the inflated damages the industry is claiming based on some inane assumptions on their part.

    In other words, they assume that every streamer/downloader would have went to the cinema and paid over the odds to see the film when in reality it it wasn't available to download/stream, they would either have waited until it was on tv, was only 3 in asda/tesco or perhaps not have seen it at all.


    Research conducted over the last decade has proven time and time again that those who pirate/stream spend more on media than those who don't. But of course, they don't ever take into account any benefit they receive from the pirate/streaming industry - only their inane inflated losses.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • AndyPix
    • By AndyPix 16th Mar 17, 7:25 PM
    • 2,204 Posts
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    AndyPix
    ^^ Cant upvote that enough
    Running with scissors since 1978
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 16th Mar 17, 7:33 PM
    • 11,069 Posts
    • 6,155 Thanks
    Strider590
    In other words, they assume that every streamer/downloader would have went to the cinema and paid over the odds to see the film when in reality it it wasn't available to download/stream, they would either have waited until it was on tv, was only 3 in asda/tesco or perhaps not have seen it at all.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    This is the truth that they're keen to hide and the reason I say that censorship/filtering is not really about piracy.

    They do simply assume that each download is a copy they don't sell, when in truth most downloaders wouldn't have bought it anyway.

    It's been said that illegal downloads actually force the studios to make better quality films, because no longer do you have to buy the film in order to find out it was terrible. It gets the film out there, it gets people talking about it, as a result good films sell more copies and bad films sell much less.

    Here's the kicker, it's the authorities and the big corporate interests that like to get the film industry riled up about piracy, because as I mentioned earlier they're trying to fully control our access to free and impartial information and gaining allies is an important step.
    Having the last word isn't the same as being right.......

    "Never confuse education with intelligence"
    • Jivesinger
    • By Jivesinger 16th Mar 17, 8:11 PM
    • 1,142 Posts
    • 675 Thanks
    Jivesinger
    i didn't think authors got paid everytime the book was borrowed. i thought the library paid once for the book and then shared it x amount of times. much like any other content shared online.
    Originally posted by dipsomaniac
    They get paid when a book is borrowed - it's called the Public Lending Right, apparently.
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