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  • FIRST POST
    • Shecar
    • By Shecar 15th Mar 17, 3:10 PM
    • 35Posts
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    Shecar
    PIP: Not All Horror Stories
    • #1
    • 15th Mar 17, 3:10 PM
    PIP: Not All Horror Stories 15th Mar 17 at 3:10 PM
    My 25 year old daughter has ADHD, Dyspraxia & Expressive & Receptive Language Difficulties. She currently receives DLA, for life at higher care & lower mobility.

    I have been trawling the various Forums, read all the horror stories etc and one thing I have come to appreciate is; It is a fact that the majority of people only take to a keyboard when they have a gripe ................

    After reading through what seemed like hundreds of posts about peoples experiences, I was particularly anxious about my daughters F2F for her PIP Assessment. I needn't have worried, the nurse who assessed was brilliant, she had read my Daughters PIP 2 form, as well as all the supporting evidence. (This was evident by her referring to them on occasion throughout the appointment).
    She spoke to my daughter as any caring professional would speak to someone with her language needs - my daughter could understand about 60% of the questions asked and with rewording/simplifying further by either myself or the assessor was able to understand and answer the remaining 40%

    Our 30 - 45 minute assessment took 1 & 1/2 hours, but seemed like half that time!

    She spent a long time 'setting the scene' - Asking lots of questions regarding my daughters birth, early years, physio, occupational & speech therapy treatments, (something I had failed to mention in the Additional Information section!) She said it would be useful information in getting the bigger picture and showing that my daughter was born with these conditions and that there was no recovering from them!

    So whatever the outcome, I am confident that the Assessor, at least, was able to make fair judgement of my daughters condition and it's affect on her everyday life.
Page 1
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 15th Mar 17, 3:15 PM
    • 7,154 Posts
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    kingfisherblue
    • #2
    • 15th Mar 17, 3:15 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Mar 17, 3:15 PM
    One of my Guides was recently transferred from DLA to PIP. It took less than two months, no face to face, and she was awarded enhanced rate for both components for ten years. She also has a learning disability among other conditions.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 15th Mar 17, 3:27 PM
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    Muttleythefrog
    • #3
    • 15th Mar 17, 3:27 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Mar 17, 3:27 PM
    So whatever the outcome, I am confident that the Assessor, at least, was able to make fair judgement of my daughters condition and it's affect on her everyday life.
    Originally posted by Shecar
    Pleased you seem to have had a good experience. The time allocated sounds unusually long and it does sound like the HCP was taking very seriously their responsibilities. It is worth saying many people do report good experiences but often that is somewhat diminished if they later see the report - I do though rarely see the apparent attention to duty reported here. Not suggesting there'll be any problem here but I would strongly recommend calling DWP PIP number and requesting copy of the PA4 consultation report... not least because it could confirm a decent award is very likely coming down the line. The sad possibility here is that the HCP in this case could start to face internal pressures to improve their efficiency or otherwise look for something more suitable... at the end of the day the pressure is to do these assessments efficiently not accurately. Good luck.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 15-03-2017 at 3:31 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 15th Mar 17, 5:45 PM
    • 838 Posts
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    rockingbilly
    • #4
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:45 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:45 PM
    Pleased you seem to have had a good experience. The time allocated sounds unusually long and it does sound like the HCP was taking very seriously their responsibilities. It is worth saying many people do report good experiences but often that is somewhat diminished if they later see the report - I do though rarely see the apparent attention to duty reported here. Not suggesting there'll be any problem here but I would strongly recommend calling DWP PIP number and requesting copy of the PA4 consultation report... not least because it could confirm a decent award is very likely coming down the line. The sad possibility here is that the HCP in this case could start to face internal pressures to improve their efficiency or otherwise look for something more suitable... at the end of the day the pressure is to do these assessments efficiently not accurately. Good luck.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    Unless I am mistaken there is normally more of an effort being made by assessors in most cases for those moving from DLA to PIP than for those who are applying for PIP for the first time.
    From memory nearly 75% of all 'transfer' claims resulted in a PIP award, whereas those with new claims only approx.45% were awarded PIP.

    Whilst the figure for 'transfer' claims is good, it still leaves something like 25% who don't get anything - the category that I have fallen into.
    However of those 25%, 60% appear to get an award if they go to appeal. Thus on the whole 90% one way or another of 'transfer' claims are awarded PIP, leaving just 10% who walk away with nothing.
    efficiently = doing the right thing by the government/DWP (saving money)
    accurately = doing the right thing by the claimant with no regard to how much money the government have to spend.
    • Shecar
    • By Shecar 15th Mar 17, 5:47 PM
    • 35 Posts
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    Shecar
    • #5
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:47 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:47 PM
    Yes, Muttleythefrog, I have read of people coming from assessments being really happy with the assessor and then finding that the report is not what they were expecting.

    I am not entirely confident that an award will be made BUT I suppose I may be guilty of 'reading between the lines', my previous employment (before early retirement) was of an 'assessor/auditor' and my take on the appointment was that this assessor was asking my daughter questions to elicit the answers expected to meet any criteria. OK, we have to be frank here - as I stated before, my daughter has receptive and expressive language problems and would not be able to answer a 'multiple choice' type of question as it would totally confuse her - as such the assessor was limited by how she could phrase any questions.

    I have already requested a copy of the report as our GP is interested in receiving a copy. As of today it has not been received by the DWP - F2F was only 9th March, I have no idea of the actual timescales between the F2F and, (in our case), Capita returning their report for consideration, or in what form they return the report - I assumed electronically - but, as that's just a push of the button, I would expect the DWP to have been able to confirm it's submission by now.

    We were told that she would write up her report that evening and that we should hear from DWP within 8 weeks (as to how conservative that is - we will have to wait & see)

    I fully suspect there could be an ongoing hold up on a lot of evaluations until after the 16th - but that could just be my overactive imagination playing tricks!
    Last edited by Shecar; 15-03-2017 at 5:52 PM. Reason: To answer Muttleythefrog personally.... just incl their 'name'
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 15th Mar 17, 5:57 PM
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    Muttleythefrog
    • #6
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:57 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:57 PM
    Yes, I have read of people coming from assessments being really happy with the assessor and then finding that the report is not what they were expecting.

    I am not entirely confident that an award will be made BUT I suppose I may be guilty of 'reading between the lines', my previous employment (before early retirement) was of an 'assessor/auditor' and my take on the appointment was that this assessor was asking my daughter questions to elicit the answers expected to meet any criteria. OK, we have to be frank here - as I stated before, my daughter has receptive and expressive language problems and would not be able to answer a 'multiple choice' type of question as it would totally confuse her - as such the assessor was limited by how she could phrase any questions.

    I have already requested a copy of the report as our GP is interested in receiving a copy. As of today it has not been received by the DWP - F2F was only 9th March, I have no idea of the actual timescales between the F2F and, (in our case), Capita returning their report for consideration, or in what form they return the report - I assumed electronically - but, as that's just a push of the button, I would expect the DWP to have been able to confirm it's submission by now.

    We were told that she would write up her report that evening and that we should hear from DWP within 8 weeks (as to how conservative that is - we will have to wait & see)

    I fully suspect there could be an ongoing hold up on a lot of evaluations until after the 16th - but that could just be my overactive imagination playing tricks!
    Originally posted by Shecar
    Hmmm I would have assumed DWP would get report sent electronically within hours.. certainly ATOS are swift hence I tend to recommend next working day calling DWP. I'd potentially chase up in this case...DWP is definitely administratively dumb. I would say the description of the event.. not least the time does imply this has been done well... those reports of the friendly HCP typically are not accompanied by claims of lengthy detailed investigation but by swift efficient processing (and thus the 'it wasn't bad at all' reports.. in out shake it all about..lol.) Weeks for the actual decision sounds most likely... but it seems to vary significantly around the country. I got a decision just within a month yet it took 2.5 months to make the same decision in reconsideration. But I would be pretty confident that the timeline of this assessment is likely to mean 'good news' purely on the basis of the fact that the software and assessment is geared up to be dismissive and efficient in that the default descriptor is zero point scoring and requires no explanation for selection unlike the point scoring ones. So time should correlate to difficulties being recorded as a general rule I'd suggest.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 15-03-2017 at 6:05 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 15th Mar 17, 6:04 PM
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    Muttleythefrog
    • #7
    • 15th Mar 17, 6:04 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Mar 17, 6:04 PM
    Unless I am mistaken there is normally more of an effort being made by assessors in most cases for those moving from DLA to PIP than for those who are applying for PIP for the first time.
    From memory nearly 75% of all 'transfer' claims resulted in a PIP award, whereas those with new claims only approx.45% were awarded PIP.

    Whilst the figure for 'transfer' claims is good, it still leaves something like 25% who don't get anything - the category that I have fallen into.
    However of those 25%, 60% appear to get an award if they go to appeal. Thus on the whole 90% one way or another of 'transfer' claims are awarded PIP, leaving just 10% who walk away with nothing.
    efficiently = doing the right thing by the government/DWP (saving money)
    accurately = doing the right thing by the claimant with no regard to how much money the government have to spend.
    Originally posted by rockingbilly
    Logic dictates that those 'transferring' from DLA to PIP are more likely to qualify for PIP than new claimants. Good reasons why this is true are that 1. getting DLA implies the DWP have been previously satisfied day to day disabilities exist and there's a high chance they will again albeit with different criteria 2. Claimant is more likely to have a medical history to back up claimed disabilities thus is probably richer in evidence 3. Claimant is probably more aware of the processes or information sources out there in order to successfully present a claim or navigate it.

    I would think an HCP will not be particularly swayed in their approach if the claimant is currently in receipt of DLA... if they're aware of that fact it may place into their mind the claimant currently does have established disabilities.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 15-03-2017 at 6:08 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 15th Mar 17, 7:30 PM
    • 838 Posts
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    rockingbilly
    • #8
    • 15th Mar 17, 7:30 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Mar 17, 7:30 PM
    Logic dictates that those 'transferring' from DLA to PIP are more likely to qualify for PIP than new claimants. Good reasons why this is true are that 1. getting DLA implies the DWP have been previously satisfied day to day disabilities exist and there's a high chance they will again albeit with different criteria 2. Claimant is more likely to have a medical history to back up claimed disabilities thus is probably richer in evidence 3. Claimant is probably more aware of the processes or information sources out there in order to successfully present a claim or navigate it.

    I would think an HCP will not be particularly swayed in their approach if the claimant is currently in receipt of DLA... if they're aware of that fact it may place into their mind the claimant currently does have established disabilities.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    I take your point, but the DWP went to great lengths when PIP came out to deny that there is any similarity between DLA & PIP. It has been said many times that the two benefits are both different in how they are assessed and different in terms of what evidence and type of evidence is needed. Hence why the DWP do not generally bother to look at the old DLA file.
    In fact it was stated that PIP has more in common with ESA than it does with DLA.

    Saying that the assessor may not know that it is a 'transfer; case is not true. There is a question during the process that asks if you are already a DLA claimant and offers to obtain the DLA file for you as relevant evidence may well be held there.
    Also when the file is sent to the assessor it would indicate what type of claim it is viz:

    The following referrals will be sent to providers:
    • Claims made under Special Rules for Terminal illness (SRTI)
    • New claims
    • Claims that are being reviewed, e.g. reassessment of an existing DLA claim or on a PIP claim where an agreed award review point is reached or fresh evidence received (this list is not exhaustive)
    • Rework requests in relation to assessment reports
    • Advice on other issues


    On the basis of all of that I do believe that assessors are more mindful when dealing with a 'transfer' case.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 15th Mar 17, 8:09 PM
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    Muttleythefrog
    • #9
    • 15th Mar 17, 8:09 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Mar 17, 8:09 PM
    I take your point, but the DWP went to great lengths when PIP came out to deny that there is any similarity between DLA & PIP. It has been said many times that the two benefits are both different in how they are assessed and different in terms of what evidence and type of evidence is needed. Hence why the DWP do not generally bother to look at the old DLA file.
    In fact it was stated that PIP has more in common with ESA than it does with DLA.

    Saying that the assessor may not know that it is a 'transfer; case is not true. There is a question during the process that asks if you are already a DLA claimant and offers to obtain the DLA file for you as relevant evidence may well be held there.
    Also when the file is sent to the assessor it would indicate what type of claim it is viz:

    The following referrals will be sent to providers:
    • Claims made under Special Rules for Terminal illness (SRTI)
    • New claims
    • Claims that are being reviewed, e.g. reassessment of an existing DLA claim or on a PIP claim where an agreed award review point is reached or fresh evidence received (this list is not exhaustive)
    • Rework requests in relation to assessment reports
    • Advice on other issues


    On the basis of all of that I do believe that assessors are more mindful when dealing with a 'transfer' case.
    Originally posted by rockingbilly
    Well the DWP make all sorts of claims... the fact is DLA was a benefit for people with day to day disabilities and PIP is a benefit for people with day to day disabilities... it's not rocket science to conclude those who have been getting DLA may well qualify for PIP despite a difference in process and criteria.

    On the assessor. There is no guarantee they will look at the paperwork to see if existing DLA claimant. That's half the problem... unlike in this case it is often true that the HCPs do not read the evidence in advance or do so with some haste.

    On your last point.. as suggested.. hard to say... for the most part I doubt that it features significantly in their consciousness whether known or not.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • Shecar
    • By Shecar 15th Mar 17, 9:17 PM
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    • 47 Thanks
    Shecar
    Hmmm I would have assumed DWP would get report sent electronically within hours.. certainly ATOS are swift hence I tend to recommend next working day calling DWP. I'd potentially chase up in this case....
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    I will be calling again tomorrow morning, that will be the 1 week anniversary of the F2F, I shall be happier knowing that the report has been received - but appreciate that there will most likely be a backlog of reports actually being written by the assessors. I know that our appointment was brought forward by 15 mins - to ensure that two others could be fitted in that afternoon - knowing we took up twice the time as the average appointment should also be factored in ............................ Maybe my time as an Auditor gives me another 'take on things' I know that the last appointment attendees were arriving as we left the building and that the appointment scheduled for 45 mins after ours had already been waiting for nearly an hour! So I am assuming that the assessor had an awful backlog where reports were concerned on that day alone :/
    • Shecar
    • By Shecar 16th Mar 17, 9:43 AM
    • 35 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    Shecar
    I will be calling again tomorrow morning, that will be the 1 week anniversary of the F2F, I shall be happier knowing that the report has been received - but appreciate that there will most likely be a backlog of reports actually being written by the assessors. :/
    Originally posted by Shecar
    Well, I phoned and have been told that the report has still not been received - the DWP employee did confirm that there was a note on the system that we had requested a copy as soon as it comes in. She also confirmed that they do receive these electronically and that the wait to receive reports can be a couple of weeks ......................... might explain why our assessor said that the wait to hear from the DWP might be up to 8 weeks??
    • arenaman
    • By arenaman 16th Mar 17, 11:12 AM
    • 710 Posts
    • 131 Thanks
    arenaman
    If it helps my son moved from DLA to PIP and had his face to face assessment on 20th Feb and got his decision letter which was dated 6th March so it seems to be a pretty quick turnaround.

    He was actually "upgraded" to the enhanced rate on both care and mobility despite what you might read so I wouldn't worry too much, you sound as though you've done everything and pained the full picture like we did. Good luck.
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 16th Mar 17, 11:39 AM
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    rockingbilly
    ... it's not rocket science to conclude those who have been getting DLA may well qualify for PIP despite a difference in process and criteria.

    .
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    You would have expected that to be the case. But like everything there are exceptions to the rule. And without taking over this thread, my own case proves the exception - DLA (HRM & MRC) to 0 for PIP!
    But having said that the statistics do bear out your opinion given that approx. 3 out of 4 transfers do in fact end up with a PIP award of some level.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 17th Mar 17, 8:44 PM
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    Muttleythefrog
    Well, I phoned and have been told that the report has still not been received - the DWP employee did confirm that there was a note on the system that we had requested a copy as soon as it comes in. She also confirmed that they do receive these electronically and that the wait to receive reports can be a couple of weeks ......................... might explain why our assessor said that the wait to hear from the DWP might be up to 8 weeks??
    Originally posted by Shecar
    I wonder if it has been held up due to audit.. I'm thinking off top of head here but I think a certain proportion will face auditing. I would take a solid here that the HCP in question may also face additional internal non standard scrutiny. Otherwise there'd be no obviously explanation for delays... the report should have been finished after assessment... same day. I wonder if it is worth you emailing ... Capita isn't it?... and saying the DWP are still awaiting report from assessment date x... what is the hold up. That might provoke them to address any admin error or otherwise inform you of legitimate reason.


    ETA I see you have now contacted Capita who confirm still with assessor. I could only suggest the above is therefore more likely.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 17-03-2017 at 9:20 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 17th Mar 17, 8:46 PM
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    Muttleythefrog
    You would have expected that to be the case. But like everything there are exceptions to the rule. And without taking over this thread, my own case proves the exception - DLA (HRM & MRC) to 0 for PIP!
    But having said that the statistics do bear out your opinion given that approx. 3 out of 4 transfers do in fact end up with a PIP award of some level.
    Originally posted by rockingbilly
    There is no rule... it's a trend.... rather like hospitals seem to get an unusually high proportion of sick people check in.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
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